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Liberal Democrats The Top 10% - Should They Pay More Tax?

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
The Deputy Prime Minister has declared that the top 10% should pay more tax. He didn't distinguish between income and wealth and he didn't say how they should be taxed (though he has talked vaguely about a temporary wealth tax). Do you agree that the top 10% aren't paying enough?
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
No I dont agree. Higher rate payers already pay more in terms of total cash. The people with higher incomes are generally getting their higher income for a reason. Its not down to them to support less well paid people.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Ive never really understood it either. They earn more so they pay more anyway.

Why we punish people for being successful I have no idea.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,348
Pay your fair share, simple isn't it? Why employ teams of accountants digging away to save you £££'s when those £££'s can be used to bolster the NHS, the Forces and whatever else.

I can't massage my taxes to pay less - why should anyone else?
 

South Bank Hank

👍⭐
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
14,780
Location
Rayleigh
Pay your fair share, simple isn't it? Why employ teams of accountants digging away to save you £££'s when those £££'s can be used to bolster the NHS, the Forces and whatever else.

I can't massage my taxes to pay less - why should anyone else?

This is not the discussion though. Clegg isn't questioning whether the top 10% are paying their due but potentially arguing that that those dues aren't in themselves enough... which in my opinion is quite wrong. The top 10% are already paying a huge tax burden on both earnings and expenditure. For those that employ people, it goes much, much further than that.
 

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
This isn't about reducing the effective rate of tax through avoidance. He wants the top 10% to pay more tax than they are currently required to do.

For the record, the top 10% in terms of income starts at £39,600. That is from HMRC's statistics in 09/10, the last available data set. Uplift generously for inflation and you get about £46,000 in today's terms. Nick Clegg wants everyone earnings more than £46k to pay more tax.

How he wants to do that I have no idea (and neither does he). This is the group that start to lose their child benefit at £5k more, it is the graduate a few years into their job who will now have £30k of student debt.
 

South Bank Hank

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In fairness to Clegg, he's calling for a debate... and that's just about as fair as I can possibly be to him.

I do actually accept that people with higher incomes do have a duty to support less well paid people and an interest in doing it, but it's a question of degrees. The point of course is that wealthier people already DO support the less well paid through the existing tax infrastructure. They earn more, they pay more.

The whole thing is about achieving a balance. We need wealth creators to drive our country forward and lead us in order to be competitive with the rest of the world - for everybody's benefit. Then we need people to run and maintain the essential services - for everybody's benefit. However, if you apply too many disincentives that push those at the top away from creating wealth, the people who eventually suffer most are those at the bottom anyway.

My fairness to Clegg reaches exhaustion is in his idea that taxation for the highest earners isn't fair and proportionate when the highest earners are already paying fortunes in tax. If you need to look elsewhere, invest in closing any 'avoidance' loopholes, pass legislation to better enforce collections, drive better efficiency in managing process in central and local government, and incentivise those higher earners to SPEND their cash rather than try to protect it.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,081
Location
Benfleet
If we're talking about those that fall in this bracket that make themselves tax exiles, then I'm all for it! It really angers me those people that find loop holes like offshore bank accounts or living abroad for certain amounts of the year to avoid paying what they should! Other than that, a debate seems a fair request...
 

GrumpyBlue

Director⭐
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
2,723
Location
Devoran, Cornwall
If we're talking about those that fall in this bracket that make themselves tax exiles, then I'm all for it! It really angers me those people that find loop holes like offshore bank accounts or living abroad for certain amounts of the year to avoid paying what they should! Other than that, a debate seems a fair request...

Crikey I totally agree with OBL :omg:
 

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
If we're talking about those that fall in this bracket that make themselves tax exiles, then I'm all for it! It really angers me those people that find loop holes like offshore bank accounts or living abroad for certain amounts of the year to avoid paying what they should! Other than that, a debate seems a fair request...

Using an offshore bank account and not declaring the income is illegal; it is not tax avoidance.

Living abroad for certain periods of the year will not give rise to any tax advantage at all.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
849
Location
Pitsea
Listening to James O'Brien this morning he banded the figure of 50K putting people in the top 10%. Now last year I fell into that bracket, this year I probably wont as my earnings are about to take a bit of a hit.

Its the terminology that annoys me, talk of the top 10% & to some people it conjours up an image wealthy people living in big houses with his & hers new cars, reality is somewhat different for a lot of people in this top ten.

Whilst I agree my income gives me a comfortable living, I'm not wealthy. Last year I paid a five figured some in income tax, add to that a considerable amount in income tax II (NI) & my contribution from direct taxation is nearly 30% of my earnings, I feel that is doing more than my fair share.

Anyway I can't take Nick Clegg seriously as a politician, as recent grovelling has shown. It's so easy to make promises you know you will never have to keep, but then the day comes you have to & don't. Issuing a grovelling apology after just show's him up for the incompetant punching above his weight that he is. If he stays as leader he is leading his party to an electoral massacre, so much so UKIP will probably get a bigger % of votes.
 

hockleyeast1964

sons taxi and bank
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
833
Location
hockley
I earn a good salary am on paye.I paid 50pc tax + nat ins .I have more than one mate who is self employed and with the right accountant pays 5pc tax maximum. So **** off clegg start looking at these so called low self employed earners,who are probably clearing more than most middle earners in the city.
 

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
5,611
Location
Not here
This isn't about reducing the effective rate of tax through avoidance. He wants the top 10% to pay more tax than they are currently required to do.

For the record, the top 10% in terms of income starts at £39,600. That is from HMRC's statistics in 09/10, the last available data set. Uplift generously for inflation and you get about £46,000 in today's terms. Nick Clegg wants everyone earnings more than £46k to pay more tax.
.
And the point being - they already would if it was flat percentage across the board. But no - the 'top 10%' are already in 40% band...
 

Dick Bate's Protege

Minister for Equality
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,943
Location
In a Tory Wonderland
Clegg falls neatly into that adage 'The Left are very good at spending other people's money.' The man is a total side salad, and should be roughly buggered all the way to Brussels.
 

Uncle Leo

This cook is an anti-semite
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
23,031
Location
NY Parks Dept
This isn't about reducing the effective rate of tax through avoidance. He wants the top 10% to pay more tax than they are currently required to do.

For the record, the top 10% in terms of income starts at £39,600. That is from HMRC's statistics in 09/10, the last available data set. Uplift generously for inflation and you get about £46,000 in today's terms. Nick Clegg wants everyone earnings more than £46k to pay more tax.

How he wants to do that I have no idea (and neither does he). This is the group that start to lose their child benefit at £5k more, it is the graduate a few years into their job who will now have £30k of student debt.

And that really is a key point. The top 10% includes an awful lot of people who are doing well but couldn't be classed as 'fat cats'. It's easy to throw around the 'top 10%' figure, but context needs to be given (as you have Neil) around who those people are.

Which is a long winded way of saying 'no thanks Nick'.
 

South Bank Hank

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Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
14,780
Location
Rayleigh
Dear voters,

I'd like to give the impression that I haven't sold out all of my principles in the pursuit of power and say something to make those who so clearly wasted their vote on the Lib Dems in the last election feel better about themselves. I'd like us to debate the tax being paid by the rich.

Yours sincerely,
Nick
 
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