"There's no point in having a new stadium if you don't have a good team"

[Tangled up in Blue]

"There's no point in having a new stadium if you don't have a good team.".Discuss.

Not my words-hence the quotation marks-but the words of Paco Flores.

Some background,(bear with me please).
On Sunday nights I usually watch a football programme on Catalan TV3 called Gol a Gol-Hatrick Espanyol.As you can probably guess it's dedicated to Espanyol, the other team in Barcelona.Paco Flores is a former coach of Espanyol.He's not unlike Tilly in that he's a former player for the club(before my time-unlike with Tilly)and trained the youth team and reserves before taking over the first team about 12 years ago.Like Tilly he's a local lad and was very much associated with giving youth players a run in the team.
Espanyol have this season moved to a marvellous new stadium in Cornella(near the airport and outside Barcelona itself)after a ten year exile in Montjuic(where England recently played two world cup qualifiers against Andorra)after selling their historic ground in Sarria((remember the 1982 World Cup game between Brazil and Argentina?-it took place there).
Anyway despite the fantasic "shiny" new stadium,the team this season is cack and facing a struggle against relegation.Hence Paco's remark.Personally I think he's got a point.I'm a bit fed with seeing crap football(from the home team at least)in wonderful surroundings.Money that was obviously spent on the ground should have gone towards the team.
Maybe there's a moral in this for SUFC?

Footnote.Okay Flores doesn't have a job at the moment and maybe has an axe to grind against his former employers.
Incidentally, he was sacked the season after winning the Spanish Cup (for the first time in Espanyol's history).The roll on clause in his contract guaranteed him a job as long as Espanyol finished in the top 10.Espanyol finished 11th and he was out.

 

[Firestorm]

It works the other way too,

maybe if we had a larger capacity stadiuma few years ago we may have had enough extra money coming in through the gates to have enabled us to stay in the division

And TBH FF is not just about the ground, its the additioanl revenue streams which keep being mentioned and that the Money being used to develop the ground would not have gone anywhere near the team anyway

 

[Reg Martin]

The statement is true but only half the story.
The other half of the picture is "If your stadium is small your team's chances of success will always be limited."
There is a case to be argued for Southend having a small stadium but it seems to me that people who make it need to recognise it means Southend will continue to spend most of the time in the lower two divisions.
Again there is a case for saying that is where we belong but the people most opposed to a new stadium usually undermine their case by being the same people who appear most unhappy with current and recent league placings ie mid-table/top-half division one.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

FF is not just about the ground, its the additioanl revenue streams which keep being mentioned and that the Money being used to develop the ground would not have gone anywhere near the team anyway

Ah, I thought the revenue stream issue would be mentioned.FWIW Espanyol have made a great fuss about this too.To be fair there are restaurants,bars,meeting and function rooms at Espanyol's new stadium to which the club has the sole right of exploitation(unlike FF I believe).There is also talk of events being held there eg pop concerts etc which obviously the club would benefit from.Yet despite the showpiece nature of the excellent new stadium-it's widely tipped here to be the venue for the UEFA Cup Final in 2011 and was recently the centre chosen for an important FIFA meeting-the point remains that the stadium has been developed at the expense of the team.
This is exactly the situation that SUFC are in now and are likely to be in the forseable future IMO.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I used to have a pair of Stadium trainers when I was young. They occupied the same price point as Nicks and Jet 777 and I think they were purchased from Pauls.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The statement is true but only half the story.
The other half of the picture is "If your stadium is small your team's chances of success will always be limited."

Fair point.

There is a case to be argued for Southend having a small stadium but it seems to me that people who make it need to recognise it means Southend will continue to spend most of the time in the lower two divisions.
Again there is a case for saying that is where we belong but the people most opposed to a new stadium usually undermine their case by being the same people who appear most unhappy with current and recent league placings ie mid-table/top-half division one.

Having supported SUFC since the early 60's and only having ever seen the club in Division 2/the Championship for 7 seasons during that time personally I'd be quite happy if we continued playing our football in Divisions 1 or 2.
As long as- the club was financially secure and the owner(s) had the best interest of the football club at heart-that is.

 

[RobM]

A big stadium hasn't exactly helped Darlington...

 

[Jam_Man]

A big stadium hasn't exactly helped Darlington...

New stadiums are never a guarantee for success, you still have to do it on the pitch and it depends on how much demand there is for football, we luckuly dont have to compete with Rugby, however we do have a lot of london clubs. The good news is that to go to a game in London is very pricey these days so in theory we will be able to attract more supporters which of course would be easier with a new stadium.

A new stadium wont guarantee bigger crowds or success for us either, however staying at Roots Hall will certainly guarantee we wont get bigger crowds and struggle to sustain long term success...

Bottom of average CCC attendances :

20 Plymouth Argyle 14792
21 Doncaster Rovers 12825
22 Peterborough 12711
23 Blackpool 9861
24 Scunthorpe United 8921

3 of those are in the bottom 5, and whilst the likes of Blackpool and Doncaster are having good seasons just shows that we would never establish ourselves at that level if we don't move.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

, we luckuly dont have to compete with Rugby, however we do have a lot of london clubs. The good news is that to go to a game in London is very pricey these days so in theory we will be able to attract more supporters which of course would be easier with a new stadium.

Talking of London clubs isn't it perhaps indicative of the new economic climate that West Ham turned down the chance of moving to the new Olympic Stadium currently being built in East London like a shot?

 

[MK Shrimper]

A good team? We've got the best on the planet I think you'll find.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A good team? We've got the best on the planet I think you'll find.

I agree.I just think they could be even better.:)

 

[undercovershrimper]

3 of those are in the bottom 5, and whilst the likes of Blackpool and Doncaster are having good seasons just shows that we would never establish ourselves at that level if we don't move.

And two of those havent moved, Plymouth and Blackpool have redeveloped their existing stadiums, just picking bones coz im bored :)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And two of those havent moved, Plymouth and Blackpool have redeveloped their existing stadiums, just picking bones coz im bored :)

And historically speaking they're bigger clubs than us anyway.

 

[shaneyshrimper]

Its like the weird naked Indian said in Waynes World "Build it and they will come". Larger stadium = additional funds= better players= promotion and more importantly sustained league position. FF is a must and a priority!!!!

 

[united we stand]

but you have to look at this for the long term. Personally I think it will be at least 5 years , and more likley 10 until you can actually look back and say whether what is happening today was actually worth it or not.

personally i think it is worth it

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Its like the weird naked Indian said in Waynes World "Build it and they will come". Larger stadium = additional funds= better players= promotion and more importantly sustained league position. FF is a must and a priority!!!!

LOL, that was a reference to Field of Dreams.

 

[fbm]

Being good is relative, is it not?

If you compare this team (play offs, just outside play offs and mid table) with the teams we had in L2 before Tilly took over then I think we are a good team. However, compared to the team that won L1 championship then maybe we're not so good - but I don't actually think we're that far off from being a good L1 side.

Interesting fact - prior to Scunthorpe building their new stadium at Glanford Park in 1988 the most modern ground in the Football League was... Roots Hall. Kevin Keegan, after he moved to Liverpool from Scunthorpe, described RH as "the Wembley of the fourth division".

But the fcat remains that there was no new stadia in England for over 30 years.

Since then of course, several clubs have moved grounds and many others have redeveloped existing ones, and some done both. Coventry for instance redeveloped Highfield Road after the Taylor Report and then moved t the Ricoh.

But soon we will be overtaken by teams who are gradually replacing their grounds and although we may not be a good team when we acquire it, the mere fact that we have it should enbale us to attract better players that would improve our on pitch performances.

Of course a new ground doesn't guarantee success - ask Oxford - but the odds are that it will help. And, as I've said before, I wouldn't be happy about "settling" for never having a crowd bigger than 10,000. That's just defeatist.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

<

Being good is relative, is it not?<

Fair point.

If you compare this team (play offs, just outside play offs and mid table) with the teams we had in L2 before Tilly took over then I think we are a good team. However, compared to the team that won L1 championship then maybe we're not so good - but I don't actually think we're that far off from being a good L1 side.



And if you have a good look at the league table, we're not so far off being an L2 side again, next season.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

And if you have a good look at the league table we're not so far off being an L2 side again next season.

And if you look back at this board at the same time of the year for the last 2 seasons, you'll see exactly the same things posted, and look where we've ended up.....

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Good team or bad, if we don't leave Roots Hall then we fold.
A good chunk of my life has been spent at that ground but we must move on or it's curtains and no one wants that.