Transfer Embargo, Winding Up Petition & Staff Salary Issues

[sufc4life21]

Sorry Smithy but Ben's views are typical Twitter naivety. The whole thing is far more complicated than that as I'm sure you understand. The Trust under its various names was formed because of fans' anxiety that there was an inherent conflict between running a property development company with at least the possibility of profit with a loss making football club which no one wanted to buy but had assets namely Roots Hall and the training ground. I distinctly remember saying to Ron probably 20 years ago that some fans thought he would shaft us. He was a bit uncomfortable about that. I'm still not sure if he will although he has come up at long last with plans for housing that some predators seem to be eyeing up so it seems from the property angle he may have a viable scheme. The football club of course is another matter.

Majority of small clubs are loss making business that's just the footballing world in the lower leagues, that **** doesn't wash with me southend are different. I don't see other clubs similar size to southend constantly in court for unpaid taxes and not paying players/staff on time. Your just trying to look for excuses to defend Ron, no doubt you know him personally. Ron hasn't got finances to Ron a football club, it's as simple as that. So Ben is right he isn't fit and proper owner.

 

[rigsby]

I would love to know how a club with our supporter base and with our income levels is so drastically short of cash every month compared to every other club at this level. Despite constantly being fed the line that we are "Supported financially by group companies"


Our wage budget although decent is hardly blowing lots of others out of the water. We are comparable to the likes of Dagenham I believe (Top 6 or 7 or thereabouts) and a million miles from the likes of Wrexham/Notts/Chesterfield/Solihull etc

Where are we hemorrhaging cash and why? (I do appreciate RH upkeep/safety cert costs a lot, but what else)

Why have the accounts not been published for the last 2+ financial years?

Why is our financial position so appalling compared to other clubs at this level, who operate magnificently on a shoestring comparatively?

Why are we consistently paying staff/suppliers/other clubs/agents late or not at all?

Why do we have the most transfer embargoes/winding up petitions probably in the whole of pro football right now?

If this is what being "supported financially by group companies" looks like, then quite frankly the group companies are not fit and proper majority shareholders of our club.

Tom deserves a knighthood for dealing with this absolute shambles on a daily basis. Without him I suspect we would be AFC Southend by now. But we need answers to these simple questions and more.

As Tom himself has tried to explain....Its not about crowds its stadium income over stadium costs.

A mate and fellow shrimper was at Barnet the other week on a non match day. There was huge Asian wedding taking place which probably took at least 10 times what our stadium did v Notts County.

A burger van takes less money than McDonalds. All our staff who haven't been paid would have no problems if we had one wedding a month. Other clubs spent all summer having events whilst we do expensive repairs.

RH has struck an ice burg and is going down. Those are the facts and nothing, not even Carl, will save it. There are those of us who can accept it and make a plan to launch a lifeboat. Others want to stand around moaning about the Captain, the lookouts and even the band. They are the ones who are always calling others out....The trust, Stan, Tom, Chris Phillips, individual posters etc....They all ways want someone else to take action. Apart from a few like Trueblue, the rest sit around demanding others lead the way with snidey ill informed comments to anyone they consider a non believer..... Guess what... talk is cheap, judge a man by his actions

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Irrespective of our difficulties and the way Ron deals with them the idea that clubs generally are in a good financial state is false. That goes from the debt of premier clubs which is amazing including unpaid tax to smaller clubs underpinned by owners with a bob or two. Covid has made this worse. Where I think we are different is that Ron has to borrow money. He is able to because of the property development. The lenders will not want too much to be siphoned off and neither does Ron to a loss making football club.
This was the problem identified years ago when Vic died.
My main anxiety is that the millstone round the neck of the property deal is the football club. However thank God the council has stipulated that Roots Hall cannot be developed until phase 1 of the stadium is completed and approved for football.

 

[blues exile]

But “yesterday’s depressing financial news” is not within his remit.

Stan has commented during plenty of bad times so far. His remit is the footballing department, and they are doing excellently.

The excellence of the footballing department is not the subject of this thread so all that has been achieved is to divert discussion away from this

​

Stop stirring Barna, you know full well that as a Club employee he is contractually not allowed to discuss Club financial matters in public. He only comments on football items on here.

But why did he comment on a thread whose title was explicitly outside his remit? The only effect of this has been to deflect discussion away from the topic. Just what Martin and his apologists would have wanted, by design or coincidence who knows.

 

[Fairport]

As Tom himself has tried to explain....Its not about crowds its stadium income over stadium costs.

A mate and fellow shrimper was at Barnet the other week on a non match day. There was huge Asian wedding taking place which probably took at least 10 times what our stadium did v Notts County.

A burger van takes less money than McDonalds. All our staff who haven't been paid would have no problems if we had one wedding a month. Other clubs spent all summer having events whilst we do expensive repairs.

RH has struck an ice burg and is going down. Those are the facts and nothing, not even Carl, will save it. There are those of us who can accept it and make a plan to launch a lifeboat. Others want to stand around moaning about the Captain, the lookouts and even the band. They are the ones who are always calling others out....The trust, Stan, Tom, Chris Phillips, individual posters etc....They all ways want someone else to take action. Apart from a few like Trueblue, the rest sit around demanding others lead the way with snidey ill informed comments to anyone they consider a non believer..... Guess what... talk is cheap, judge a man by his actions

It is quite correct that we suffer from having very little income from hospitality and other non football events. Most football clubs, racecourses etc hire out their facilities on various non match days. Col U are currently open for Covid jabs for instance. However, it doesn't alter the fact that RM is someone with big ideas but struggles to finance these grand schemes, in the meantime dragging the local football club into the mire. The club has a bad reputation amongst other football clubs, local businesses etc. As far as our football club is concerned his stewardship has been a disaster.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Hey Everyone.

Last week, Ron, Tom, Kev, Darren, Benno, John and I met at Roots Hall.

A 2 hour meeting to go through several agenda items on and off the pitch that affect or could affect the Football Department.

Ron, as ultimate owner of Southend United set out the position on all of the raised issues, and specific questions we ( everyone freely asked questions in a cordial but business like atmosphere) all had regarding staff, morale and potential solutions.

My commitment to transparency, integrity and honesty is clear, unambiguous and I'm sure would be confirmed by the Shrimpers Trust, staff and Football Department. However it is not in my remit, nor ever was and certainly wasn't suggested ( in my zoom calls with you guys), that I would be the conduit to give Southend United privileged business information. That is the job of the CEO via the owner, and is normal business practice.

The same people who are critical of me on this forum for "being quiet", are exactly the same people who criticised when I gave them "too much running commentary". But my transparency and honesty specifically related to what the Football Department do, act upon and execute, along with commercial, media and Supporter initiatives. Why haven't you seen me pop up in meetings or video clips? Because the Football Department is doing rather than talking, and that Football Department is not only a resounding success in one year, but a resounding success despite of the situation the club has found itself in.

My role nor remit at Southend United involves privileged financial information.

You should be incredibly proud of the way that the Football Department and general staff conduct themselves,bthe Football Department in particular is fully functional, respected ( kind words last night from Luke Williams towards our Football Department in the manager's room post match ) and can discharge everything that we need to discharge when the light turns green.

Ron owns the club and there are ongoing issues, this is known and the staff at the club every day along with the Football Department are a credit to our club. Without these people, my genuine opinion is that the club would be in National League South which compounded by long term issues would be a very difficult place to come back from. Our position on the pitch now gives us a fighters chance on and off the pitch to get things right and on your behalf that is constantly messaged to those who make decisions.

Until we are fully staffed, until long standing issues are resolved , which we all hope will be very soon, then none of us will be truly happy, none of us.

But sledging anyone working their absolute tails off for our club is not ok, not cool and uncalled for.

The club, your club has very clever and long in the tooth football adults in the building,and what you've seen on the pitch can't happen without the support the Football Department and general staff give each other.

We all need your support, and trust me we are supporting you in ways that I know you all would be very proud of.

Keep calm, trust the Football Department, General Staff and Tom.

Stan

Spot on, I don’t need to have a go at anyone at the club, my only role is to get behind the team, leave the off pitch issues in hand of our amazing non playing staffs, like Tom Lawrence etc.

 

[Shrimper]

Wonder if HMRC asked if they could look at the accounts...

 

[WestyReturns]

The so called supporting group companies seem to be living precariously. Most of them have a string of legal charges against them. Its a constant tale of taking out loans against assets. While the land Ron owns keeps increasing in value RM can just about survive. If it decreases which is possible in this climate he could be in trouble. The whole FF and RH housing project could now suffer with the imminent falling of property prices.

I think the Ron empire is on the brink and he's going to take us down with it.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

You are not entitled to accounts as a “shareholder” that bought those pointless shares that were flogged years ago. They didn’t come with voting rights or any other rights.

I must admit I didn’t look into the share issue at the time (it was obviously a crap financial investment) so how come these shareholders are not registered as members?

 

[tallboyblue]

I think the Ron empire is on the brink and he's going to take us down with it.

If it is it will be in his interest to sell up ,

 

[Thundersley Blue]

I would love to know how a club with our supporter base and with our income levels is so drastically short of cash every month compared to every other club at this level. Despite constantly being fed the line that we are "Supported financially by group companies"



Our wage budget although decent is hardly blowing lots of others out of the water. We are comparable to the likes of Dagenham I believe (Top 6 or 7 or thereabouts) and a million miles from the likes of Wrexham/Notts/Chesterfield/Solihull etc

Where are we hemorrhaging cash and why? (I do appreciate RH upkeep/safety cert costs a lot, but what else)

Why have the accounts not been published for the last 2+ financial years?

Why is our financial position so appalling compared to other clubs at this level, who operate magnificently on a shoestring comparatively?

Why are we consistently paying staff/suppliers/other clubs/agents late or not at all?

Why do we have the most transfer embargoes/winding up petitions probably in the whole of pro football right now?

Where is the money coming from for things like stadium planning, legal court fees etc?

Are we receiving extra fines for late submission of accounts, unpaid taxes etc?



If this is what being "supported financially by group companies" looks like, then quite frankly the group companies are not fit and proper majority shareholders of our club.

Tom deserves a knighthood for dealing with this absolute shambles on a daily basis. Without him I suspect we would be AFC Southend by now. But we need answers to these simple questions and more.

Well I am no Mathmatician or Accountant, but even I can work out the gate money from home games doesn't even scratch the surface of what is needed to pay wages and other overheads. Assuming an average gate of 5500, of which approximately 3000 are season ticket holders. Gate money for games say at an average of £15 a head generates around
£37,000. The season ticket money I suspect has already been spent. This week of course we have 2 home games, but then no further home match until the 3rd December. Doesn't take a genius to work out the black hole is getting larger by the week.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I still want to know what happened with Hummel

Obvious, innit?

 

[amsemp]

The absence of a proper CEO for so long has been our downfall. I don’t think Ron’s a bad bloke and I don’t think his intention is or ever was to shaft us, I think it’s the opposite. But Ron’s financial management is pretty woeful and it was his overspending and being unrealistically ambitious which has cost us.

If only we’d had a CEO and the football department in place years ago. We wouldn’t have blown stupid amounts of money on hiring and firing disastrous managers and paying silly money to the likes of Ferdinand, Kiernan, Turner, Ridgewell, Kightly and all the other expensive over the hill injury ridden flops we signed.

If Ron had actually lived within his means rather than going for his **** or bust approach, we’d probably be far more comfortable now. It’s all a pretty sorry state of affairs and only highlights even more the absolute miracles the football department are performing right now. Just hope this squad isn’t absolutely dismantled in January to pay the tax man.

 

[Holy Joe]

You are not entitled to accounts as a “shareholder” that bought those pointless shares that were flogged years ago. They didn’t come with voting rights or any other rights.

Strange - I'm sure with the last set of accounts there was a voting slip. Also as a shareholder have rights to dividends - not that that was ever expected.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I don’t think Ron’s a bad bloke and I don’t think his intention is or ever was to shaft us, I think it’s the opposite.

I think Ron is dreamer who has set the bar a little too high - but how many of us haven't dreamed of Olympic gold or building a three sided stadium?

 

[shallowshrimper]

You know, if I were Ron, I'd wonder about another shares issue....

Ah yes, that reminds me I must get my last lot valued. I could be sitting on a fortune.

 

[Smiffy]

Well I am no Mathmatician or Accountant, but even I can work out the gate money from home games doesn't even scratch the surface of what is needed to pay wages and other overheads. Assuming an average gate of 5500, of which approximately 3000 are season ticket holders. Gate money for games say at an average of £15 a head generates around
£37,000. The season ticket money I suspect has already been spent. This week of course we have 2 home games, but then no further home match until the 3rd December. Doesn't take a genius to work out the black hole is getting larger by the week.

Whilst I don't disagree with your figures, my question on the back of it is how do clubs such as Dagenham with 1,500 crowds, not a huge corporate offering and a playing budget similar to ours, manage to pay staff and tax liabilities on time and avoid regular transfer embargoes and court appearances?

The answer is they actually have an owner/owners who have the required funds available to make sure the club is run in a professional manner. My point is if you don't have the required funding to run a club, then you shouldn't be running it.

We are stuck with an owner who cannot afford to run the club properly and one that won't part with a slice of the pie that could enable it to. We are merely a vehicle (that is falling to bits and not getting the proper funding) to achieving a huge retirement pot.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Ah yes, that reminds me I must get my last lot valued. I could be sitting on a fortune.

My shares are my pension.

 

[tallboyblue]

My shares are my pension.

You will never retire .

 

[londonblue]

Whilst I don't disagree with your figures, my question on the back of it is how do clubs such as Dagenham with 1,500 crowds, not a huge corporate offering and a playing budget similar to ours, manage to pay staff and tax liabilities on time and avoid regular transfer embargoes and court appearances?

The answer is they actually have an owner/owners who have the required funds available to make sure the club is run in a professional manner. My point is if you don't have the required funding to run a club, then you shouldn't be running it.

We are stuck with an owner who cannot afford to run the club properly and one that won't part with a slice of the pie that could enable it to. We are merely a vehicle (that is falling to bits and not getting the proper funding) to achieving a huge retirement pot.

Is it professional to need the owner to dip into his own pockets at all? I would argue it isn't, and in that respect other clubs are no different. The fact that other club owners are able to actually dip into their own pockets rather than (as Ron seems to have to) other people's pockets is where the difference lies and is even less professional.