Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House
Simples.....I still hold British nationality, like Barna
That was easy.
Simples.....I still hold British nationality, like Barna
Out of Interest why vote for someone in the first round and then abstain when your chose person gets through ?
Very odd indeed. I'd like to think the default position for everyone who's not a card carrying fascist would be vote for Macron. Otherwise France is going to be saddled with Le Pen - and surely Monsieur Macron is lesser of two evils?
Did you say you have lived in France for 30 odd years yet can't vote? That's a bit harsh isn't it. I thought it was only us Brits that done that sort of thing (According to a certain on here)
This is, of course a good point. The immediate choice for almost everyone, following jean-marie Le Pen qualifying for the second-round in 2002, was to vote for Chirac, without pleasure but without hesitation. This indeed was Mélenchon's position in 2002, curious that this time around, he remains silent on the subject. I've noted earlier that if you read the manifestos of both Mélenchon and Le Pen, they appear closer to each other than they are to Macron. (extreme left><extreme right). There is also, of course, the possibility that Le Pen has managed so successfully to undemonize her Front National, that many don't see its danger anymore. I'm not fooled or hoodwinked, I'm frighteningly aware of what the Front National represents...........a clear danger to freedom, liberty and democracy. If I had the vote I would support any democratic candidate standing against them, no matter how unpalatable that may be.
Can't remember anyone on this thread whose preferred first round candidate made it through to the second.
Given that the polls make Macron ahead 60-40 per cent ahead (sic) there's an argument for those on the left abstaining in the second roun. (sic!)
Yogi,like me,can vote in local and European elections not in French national elections because he's not a French national.
As I understand it Mélechon was having a meeting with his election team yesterday and was going to make his second round position clear after that.
The left "held their nose" and voted for Chirac in 2002 .Many won't bother to vote at all this time round.Can't say I blame them.Macron doesn't offer a lot.Young people,in particular,are not impressed.
Can't remember anyone on this thread whose preferred first round candidate made it through to the second.
Given that the polls make Macron ahead 60-40 per cent ahead there's an argument for those on the left abstaining in the second roun.
Yogi,like me,can vote in local and European elections, not in French national elections because he's not a French citizen.
Barna, that sounds to me one hell of a crap argument........and if it's not a total abrogation of 'democratic' responsibility it's certainly a 'political' one. However, I'm sure it's one Le Pen would hugely approve of.............and Mélenchon??? Not voting against the neofascist, racist, zenophobe, islamophobe and homophobe candidate is surely providing her with tacit approval?
Then young people are not at aware of what fascism is............perhaps they should teach 'em better in schools.....especially with France's past. Thus your argument, if you lived in the thirties Germany, would be that I'm not voting against Hitler because I don't like the democratic alternative!
I'm afraid, if Mélenchon has taken three days to reflect on whether he recommends voting against the FN, he has lost credibility with me and with others, from what I'm hearing.
:hello: cuckoo! Macron, though far from perfect, was the only viable candidate, as far as I was concerned.
Barna, the epoch and the country may be different...........but the question posed, is still very much the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJqsrEF4gw4
"Mélechon is not the problem here.Macron is.He doesn't appeal to young voters who know about his time in Cabinet advising Hollande and his work for Rothschilds."
Quite honestly, I don't see why someone who has worked at Rothschilds should be deemed unfit to be Président, anymore than Mélénchon should be barred, for the large personal fortune he has amassed.
"I was (and still am ) a huge fan of TRB.Saw them a few times too back in the day."
It's not down to how many times you may have seen them, it's to do with whether you've understood the message.
Can't remember anyone on this thread whose preferred first round candidate made it through to the second.
Given that the polls make Macron ahead 60-40 per cent ahead there's an argument for those on the left abstaining in the second roun.
Yogi,like me,can vote in local and European elections, not in French national elections because he's not a French citizen.
This is one thing I dislike about the Corbyn-ite left - that when things get tough they opt out. I live in England so all this is happening from afar from my point of view but I like Macron. I'd vote for him if I could. he seems to be a pragmatic centre-left-ist and i'll take that most days.
How anyone can think about ducking out of a vote against Le Pen is beyond me. So you don't think the alternative is perfect? that's politics, you have to make choices between unpalatable options. The lesser of two evils is still less evil
In answer to your point about "the Corybn left" :in France (as well as in the UK) there is a need to "enthuse" voters as Owen Jones points out:-https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/27/labour-wont-win-peddling-misery-must-exude-hope-attlee-reagan-podemos .
This is something that Macron is singularly failing to do -unlike Corbyn- with young voters on the Left in the UK.
Macron may well be "pragmatic" and a "centrist" but there is nothing at all remotely left-wing about his political programme.
As for your last point, (if you've been following the discussion on this thread), we've been here before.In 2002 many on the Left -when Jospin didn't make the second round-held their noses and voted for Chirac rather than the FN.This time around many will abstain instead. In a democracy that's a perfectly valid position.
Well, it may be a valid position but is it a responsible one? If I understand correctly, your doubt about Macron ix that he doesn't have sufficient socialist credentials to merit supporting him(he is certainly not an Thatcherite liberal like Fillon). Let's look it another way. The policies of Le Pen (euroscepticism, anti-mondialisation) are really not that threatening for you.... perhaps if she were to start proposing internment for muslims, followed by gypsies, jews and gays, it would motivate you a little more to vote against what she stands for? By advocating abstention you really are saying, you don't care whether Le Pen or Macron wins. So, on the evening of May 7th, if it turns out to be President Le Pen, what exactly will you come on here saying? That is democracy?......................or, that was democracy?
We don't have any disagreement about MLP. I thought her initial reaction to the the terrorist attack on the eve of the poll last week-to close France's EU borders was just absurd-especially when it transpired that the terrorist concerned was a French national.
I agree that Macron is not a Thatcherite like Fillon.What I am saying is that Macron will win despite abstentionism on the left,which in his case is fully deserved.