Stuff the Goat,

[moneypit23]

Quote[/b] (scamps @ Aug. 02 2005,00:05)]Dudfield can stay at northampton, he's not loyal enough otherwise he would of signed by now.

How can you say that? Loyalty doesn't come at any price. Obviously he feels he is worth more than we are offering and, as such, has the right not to accept the contract.

I have a certain sympathy here with Wiggy (there, I've said it) as I'm in the "pro Dudfield" corner as well.

 

[Yoda]

Quote[/b] (moneypit23 @ Aug. 02 2005,09:31)]I have a certain sympathy here with Wiggy (there, I've said it) as I'm in the "pro Dudfield" corner as well.

Nothing wrong with that at all.
Wiggy's opinions (although tediously predictable most of the time) play the tiniest part in his unpopularity on here. It's the way he presents opinion as fact and accuses you of being a clueless uphill gardener if you disagree.

I too would like Dudfield to stay, but c'est la vie. Tilly's not perfect (who is?), but he's in the perfect decision to make the best decisions with all the information at hand.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Yoda @ Aug. 02 2005,09:36)]

Quote[/b] (moneypit23 @ Aug. 02 2005,09:31)]I have a certain sympathy here with Wiggy (there, I've said it) as I'm in the "pro Dudfield" corner as well.

Nothing wrong with that at all.
Wiggy's opinions (although tediously predictable most of the time) play the tiniest part in his unpopularity on here. It's the way he presents opinion as fact and accuses you of being a clueless uphill gardener if you disagree.

I too would like Dudfield to stay, but c'est la vie. Tilly's not perfect (who is?), but he's in the perfect decision to make the best decisions with all the information at hand.

I was going to have my tuppen'orth, but Yoda has summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

In an odd way, I half-rate wiggy's contributions here. I use the word "half" because as one of the more regular (and longstanding) contributors on this board, I can see that it can occasionally fall into a mildly self-congratulatory, self-approbatory group - a clique if you like - when things are going well; just as it can become the land of despair when things are going badly (oh, how too easily we appear to have forgotten that particular SZ trait).

So, the voice of dissention - the doom-sayer when we're cheerful, the optimist when we're in the pit of despond - is a useful one, a welcome one. Wiggy is our voice of dissention.

But, the problem is that wiggy has only half-done his or her job, and that's what the most frustrating thing is. How can you sit there and say "Tilly has let Dudfield go, shame on Tilly" without showing us how you know that fact? What is the basis for saying that, wiggy, other than plain and simple prejudice?

Hey ho, I guess we'll never find out. Wiggy has a habit of never responding to reasoned and reasonable posts.

Incidentally, on the Dudfield subject, I for one would love Lawrie to stay, but I can't see it happening now. Incidentally, scamps - the "loyalty" thing is pure bollox of the highest order. Get a grip. Few footballers are truly loyal to any club... Take Sol Campbell for example - a product of the Spurs youth system, one of the best Spurs defenders in recent years, always played with pride and heart for Tottenham... and then went to Arsenal.

Almost all footballers are mecenaries... very few are fans. We're lucky, at Roots Hall, to have been blessed with a couple of them - notably Tilly, Adam Barrett and perhaps Spinner. But they are very much the exception, not the rule.

Matt

 

[moneypit23]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Aug. 02 2005,10:24)]

Quote[/b] (Yoda @ Aug. 02 2005,09:36)]

Quote[/b] (moneypit23 @ Aug. 02 2005,09:31)]I have a certain sympathy here with Wiggy (there, I've said it) as I'm in the "pro Dudfield" corner as well.

Nothing wrong with that at all.
Wiggy's opinions (although tediously predictable most of the time) play the tiniest part in his unpopularity on here. It's the way he presents opinion as fact and accuses you of being a clueless uphill gardener if you disagree.

I too would like Dudfield to stay, but c'est la vie. Tilly's not perfect (who is?), but he's in the perfect decision to make the best decisions with all the information at hand.

I was going to have my tuppen'orth, but Yoda has summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

In an odd way, I half-rate wiggy's contributions here.  I use the word "half" because as one of the more regular (and longstanding) contributors on this board, I can see that it can occasionally fall into a mildly self-congratulatory, self-approbatory group - a clique if you like - when things are going well; just as it can become the land of despair when things are going badly (oh, how too easily we appear to have forgotten that particular SZ trait).

So, the voice of dissention - the doom-sayer when we're cheerful, the optimist when we're in the pit of despond - is a useful one, a welcome one.  Wiggy is our voice of dissention.

But, the problem is that wiggy has only half-done his or her job, and that's what the most frustrating thing is.  How can you sit there and say "Tilly has let Dudfield go, shame on Tilly" without showing us how you know that fact?  What is the basis for saying that, wiggy, other than plain and simple prejudice?

Hey ho, I guess we'll never find out.  Wiggy has a habit of never responding to reasoned and reasonable posts.

Incidentally, on the Dudfield subject, I for one would love Lawrie to stay, but I can't see it happening now.  Incidentally, scamps - the "loyalty" thing is pure bollox of the highest order.  Get a grip.  Few footballers are truly loyal to any club... Take Sol Campbell for example - a product of the Spurs youth system, one of the best Spurs defenders in recent years, always played with pride and heart for Tottenham... and then went to Arsenal.

Almost all footballers are mecenaries... very few are fans.  We're lucky, at Roots Hall, to have been blessed with a couple of them - notably Tilly, Adam Barrett and perhaps Spinner.  But they are very much the exception, not the rule.

Matt

"tuppen'orth"!! You'd be lucky to get change out of a fiver Matt!

 

[Beefy]

Quote[/b] (Mad Cyril @ Aug. 02 2005,08:29)]

Quote[/b] (Beefy @ Aug. 01 2005,18:48)]Whilst the top earners might be on £100k a year, other members of the first team are on less than a quarter of that, with families to feed, mortgages to pay and a very limited time left in their career before they are chucked on the scrap-heap.

No one forced them to become professional footballers.

Whats your point? That because someone has chosen to play football for a living that they should take the first contract offer that comes their way, regardless of how pitiful?

At Matt said, these people aren't fans they are professionals and football is their business. Its their livelihood and its their families livelihood. As much as they might lke a club and its fans, etc, they can't make decisions based on emotion like we can as fans.

Tilly & Brush offered Dudfield a contract based on what they believe his value to the squad to be, in the same way that they did last year with Constantine. I understand that, even if I don't agree with their decision (although I did last year with Connie). But what I'm seeing on this board lately is a growing feeling amongst people that Dudfield should be greatful for what he gets and that he is showing disloyalty and greediness by reserving the right not to sign and by obeying the club's request that he doesn't come to Southend to train. Thats not a view that I can subscribe to.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (moneypit23 @ Aug. 02 2005,10:32)]"tuppen'orth"!! You'd be lucky to get change out of a fiver Matt!  

Depends if you are paying for quality or quantity

 

[Firestorm]

As a comparison to a different industry, In my company we have had 5 people leave in the past 4 weeks since it was announced there would be no salary reviews this year.

No one has accused them of being disloyal.

A footballers career is short, filled with the possibility that today could be your last day in employment (ask Jay Smith or Fullerton how that feels) and contractually quite insecure .Yes they have the benefit of a job which pays well (or even very well) for men of their age and get to really enjoy it ,but enjoying your job at 25 doesn't pay the mortgage at 55.

They have to look after themselves, no one else (including their agents) will.

BTW Loyalty works two ways. Southend United have a few skeletons in the closet regarding cutting players off after loyal service, I mean Tilly wasn't particularly well treated at the end of his career and Ronnie P had to wait well over a decade for a testimonial

 

[loz]

absolutely. the only way that the loyalty issue might matter is in Tilly and Brush's eyes. If (that's IF) during talks with Dudfield they felt that he wasn't as committed to Southend as they were hoping (bearing in mind the seeming intent to build a close-knit squad), then they may well have decided they didn't want to move on the initial contract offer. If that was the case, that's still business, as was Lawrie's decision to reject it. in any case, I don't see why he should be expected to neccesarily have any lasting committment to a club where he's spent a season and a bit, much of it on the bench.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Aug. 02 2005,11:02)]

Quote[/b] (moneypit23 @ Aug. 02 2005,10:32)]"tuppen'orth"!! You'd be lucky to get change out of a fiver Matt!  

Depends if you are paying for quality or quantity  

Thank you, gents...

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Aug. 02 2005,11:11)]As a comparison to a different industry, In my company we have had 5 people leave in the past 4 weeks since it was announced there would be no salary reviews this year.

No one has accused them of being disloyal.

A footballers career is short, filled with the possibility that today could be your last day in employment (ask Jay Smith or Fullerton how that feels) and contractually quite insecure .Yes they have the benefit of a job which pays well (or even very well) for men of their age and get to really enjoy it ,but enjoying your job at 25 doesn't pay the mortgage at 55.

They have to look after themselves, no one else (including their agents) will.

BTW Loyalty works two ways. Southend United have a few skeletons in the closet regarding cutting players off after loyal service, I mean Tilly wasn't particularly well treated at the end of his career and Ronnie P had to wait well over a decade for a testimonial

Going back a little bit further both Alan Moody & Tony Hadley were both treated badly after long service.

I do not understand why people accuse Dudfield of been disloyal, when the offer in front of him is not to his satisfaction. How many people posting here would take an inferior contract offer?? (if indeed that is the case)
Not many I am sure, depending on circumstances if you seek another position is that being disloyal to the company you work for??

Therefore why are footballers in particular and sports people in general subjected to name calling when all they are really seeking to do is better their financial position?? Ignoring the so called elite of the premier league where greed goes appear to be the prime motivator.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Barnabas @ Aug. 02 2005,04:00)]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Aug. 02 2005,00:04)]

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>IS WIGGY UPSET 'COS NO-ONE BITES ANYMORE?!</span>

Xabia Shrimper

You should be ashamed of yourself. Regardless of whether you disagree sometimes with what Wiggy says (and I am one of those who does, but silently most of the time, as I see no need to bite), this kind of post is puerile, insulting and not funny. If Wiggy is indeed a woman, as seems to be a general theory on here, then this is very ungentlemanly, and I would have expected better.

I thought it was funny and so did others ... and I'm certainly not ashamed of myself at all. Wiggy has subjected me to a certain amount of abuse (mainly centred around my obvious inability to attend every League, reserve, cup game plus training session). Maybe you ought to have a look under the settee cushions for that sense of humour you seem to have mislaid ...

WS

 

[Yoda]

I think the above WAS purile and insulting.
However, I also think it was exactly what the doctor ordered.

Had 70% of Wiggy&#39;s comments thus far NOT been purile and insulting, I might think otherwise. Therefore, a valid, well-thought-out and considered post.

 

[Napster]

My fault, I should have ignored the wigmeister

wiggy, i think you and barry harris would get on well. come down the spread for a drink and meet the lads&#33;

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Aug. 02 2005,12:47)]My fault, I should have ignored the wigmeister

wiggy, i think you and barry harris would get on well. come down the spread for a drink and meet the lads&#33;

Good call.

 

[wiggy]

I am in fact an ex model and do not resemble the above picture at all. I can however advise that it is Mrs. Xabia Shrimper from a recent family albumn&#33;

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Aug. 02 2005,13:12)]I am in fact an ex model and do not resemble the above picture at all. I can however advise that it is Mrs. Xabia Shrimper from a recent family albumn&#33;

Now funny and sharp repartee like that (usually with a smiley icon) is perfectly acceptable - some may say mandatory&#33;

So you can do it... why not now transfer some brainpower and thought into your opinions and arguments and you&#39;ll find yourself more... whats the word... tolerable.

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Aug. 02 2005,11:27)]Going back a little bit further both Alan Moody &amp; Tony Hadley were both treated badly after long service.

And, interestingly, both ended back at the club after a short period away.

 

[Scamps]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Aug. 02 2005,13:12)]I am in fact an ex model and do not resemble the above picture at all. I can however advise that it is Mrs. Xabia Shrimper from a recent family albumn&#33;

Ex model..... so that means u could be getting on a bit???

It would be easy if u said u was M/F

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ Aug. 02 2005,13:20)]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Aug. 02 2005,11:27)]Going back a little bit further both Alan Moody &amp; Tony Hadley were both treated badly after long service.

And, interestingly, both ended back at the club after a short period away.

To be honest I don&#39;t remember Moody coming back, however the old memory does play tricks.

 

[Firestorm]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Aug. 02 2005,13:36)]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ Aug. 02 2005,13:20)]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Aug. 02 2005,11:27)]Going back a little bit further both Alan Moody &amp; Tony Hadley were both treated badly after long service.

And, interestingly, both ended back at the club after a short period away.

To be honest I don&#39;t remember Moody coming back, however the old memory does play tricks.

Tilly did.....