We need a striker, would you accept Ched Evans?

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Well she said she went back to the hotel to have sex with that grandison or whatever his name is and he was with Evans all night. So what's to say she wasn't up for a threesome or something!

That is what I thought you meant. I checked your profile assuming you were about 15 and it turns out you are not. I'm not sure I know where to start on how wrong your thinking is. You need to learn how to respect women.

 

[GBJ]

fundamentally we have to trust our justice system

Do we? So, as I've mentioned earlier, I know for undisputable fact, that people have been aquitted of charges that they were 100% guilty of. Should I personally trust the justice system there, despite knowing to the contrary?

I could take you back about 6 years, to when I was arrested & charged with GBH. A "witness" to a violent attack, swore blind I was the attacker & the old bill seemed happy with a cut & dry case. Here's the kicker though, I wasn't even in the vicinity on the night that this event happened!! Luckily, after being on bail for a short while, the case fell apart & the charges were rightfully dropped against me. But I wouldn't have liked to see it go all the way, as it seemed the old bill had already made their minds up. As I said, they make mistakes.

Next point, sentencing in this country is farcical and outdated. I could drag up countless cases of murders, rapes & peadophillia (which I consider to be the worst crimes) where the offender is given a minimal sentence. I could, again, speak from experience & recount tales about violent offenders who've had warnings, final warnings & suspended sentences, yet have never set foot inside the steel hotel. I get your point that, that is the law, but that doesn't mean we should be happy about it & certainly shouldn't accept it.

Last point, about rehabilitation, I agree that some criminals deserve a chance after they've served their appropriate sentence. But nonces, rapists & murderers are a scourge and cancer of society & deserve nothing.

 

[united we stand]

Was she unconscious? The video footage at the motel showed her walking in unaided and then going to reception to collect a pizza. Hardly the actions of an unconscious person

The examples of rough justice you have given involved a combination of ineffective defence barristers, criminal activity by the police force , and a public need to have ‘justice’ having undue influence on proceedings. Can you give a reason why any of the above apply to this case?
You also claim that top lawyers can result in juries making the wrong decision . Lastly you give ad hoc examples of why you feel the verdict may be wrong .

So to rephrase, despite the fact that Ched had a very expensive legal team, despite the fact that there is no question of criminal activity by the police or undue pubic pressure for a conviction and despite the fact that some evidence which was available at the trial goes against the victim the jury all found him guilty.

I completely understand the fact that some people in jail are innocent , and that there are cases that once fresh evidence is heard it becomes ludicrously clear that the defendant was not guilty . But in this case I don’t see anything of that nature and so as others have said - as far as I am concerned he is guilty. The only thing that would change my mind is either a retrial and/or if I spent the time to go through all of the evidence (not focusing on just what Ched Evan’s publicity team has put out)l myself and came to a different conclusion -

 

[southend4ever]

Do we? So, as I've mentioned earlier, I know for undisputable fact, that people have been aquitted of charges that they were 100% guilty of. Should I personally trust the justice system there, despite knowing to the contrary?

I could take you back about 6 years, to when I was arrested & charged with GBH. A "witness" to a violent attack, swore blind I was the attacker & the old bill seemed happy with a cut & dry case. Here's the kicker though, I wasn't even in the vicinity on the night that this event happened!! Luckily, after being on bail for a short while, the case fell apart & the charges were rightfully dropped against me. But I wouldn't have liked to see it go all the way, as it seemed the old bill had already made their minds up. As I said, they make mistakes.

Next point, sentencing in this country is farcical and outdated. I could drag up countless cases of murders, rapes & peadophillia (which I consider to be the worst crimes) where the offender is given a minimal sentence. I could, again, speak from experience & recount tales about violent offenders who've had warnings, final warnings & suspended sentences, yet have never set foot inside the steel hotel. I get your point that, that is the law, but that doesn't mean we should be happy about it & certainly shouldn't accept it.

Last point, about rehabilitation, I agree that some criminals deserve a chance after they've served their appropriate sentence. But nonces, rapists & murderers are a scourge and cancer of society & deserve nothing.

Some valid points but what is your view with respect to Ched Evans in order for me to put your comments into context?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I haven't voted.

But my two pennies worth...

I do not condone, in any way, shape or form what Ched Evans was found guilty of.

I was asked to do my jury service in my teens and in many ways it was a harrowing experience. A young man with very little life experience being asked to pass judgement knowing that the outcome will directly effect the future of the person in the dock. I recall that of the 12 of us there were a couple of people that listened to all the evidence and decided that it was not enough. I am not about to question our system that we have in place but in fact support it. We often hear the phrase 'to bring someone to justice'. Unless I am mistaken this is determined by the sentence handed out by the judge as a representation of the views provided by the jury. If the judge determines a 5 year sentence to be considered 'justice' then surely that is what we have to accept. Yes, we all develop our own morals and opinions often biased by life experiences, the media, friends, family etc but so not to make a shambles of our legal system then we must learn to appreciate the sentence handed out and acknowledge that the judge was privy to the full story which is not often quite translated in the same way through our media.

With that in mind, it should be accepted that Ched Evans has served his sentence. Why should it be that you or I then have the right to influence his future career. There is a lot of emotion and opinion around this topic because Ched Evans is in the public domain and we are talking about a high profile job. If Ched was an office cleaner, would the majority of you feel so strongly to withdraw his right to return to his profession? No. The concept is exactly the same regardless of job, either you feel he should return to work or he should be stripped of his right to apply for work. It is no doubt a little harder for many to accept that he will return to a job that pays more in a week than what some earn in a year. This is an exceptional case.

Without reading too many people's views I would suspect that you are too busy confusing his actual sentence with a fictional sentence that you believe to be more appropiate and in line with the crime that he was convicted for. This is not your determination. This was already made by the judicial system.

The fact that he continues to plead his innocence has little meaning since he has now served his time. I will be mindful of this and it explains why no apology has been made to the victim. There will be times when people are wrongly brought to justice so without being 100% sure of what happened that night it is something also worth considering but fundamentally we have to trust our justice system and ultimately the facts we need to consider are that this guy has served his time for the crime.

On that basis I accept the punishment that was handed to him and I acknowledge that he has served his time and was let out halfway through his sentence due to good behaviour. I do not feel it appropriate for me to then judge that he shouldn't have a career. I am not making a case for having to like the guy but he should be allowed an opportunity to continue his career having adhered to our judicial system which at no point decided he doesn't have a right to continue his footballing career.

Morals and emotions aside I do not find it acceptable for people to decide he can't have a footballing career. Yes, it pays more than your average job, but to my mind this is stripping him of a basic human right and you may as well say he doesn't deserve any type of career and should live on benefits which I do not think is the right decision.

I was wrong to suggest ms Brush's post was the best post in this thread. This post encapsulates everything that needs saying. This is a balanced view and one I enjoyed reading very much

 

[GBJ]

Some valid points but what is your view with respect to Ched Evans in order for me to put your comments into context?

I don't really have a view on him if I'm honest. In respect to whether he's guilty or not, I see interesting points for both sides. So I'm bang in the middle. You'd like to think that 12 people would hear all evidence & make the correct decision, which in this particular case I'm not necessarily denying they have. However, I don't & wouldn't put 100% faith in the judicial system, for reasons previously stated. Basically, in this case, there's 3 options for me to have...

1) believe the verdict of the jury & castigate Evans, along with everyone else
2) believe Evans' account & feel sorrow for him
3) remain open minded & see what transpires in the future.

However, IF he did it, then he deserves excruciating torture & a slow death. No rehabilitation, no second chances & certainly not to be in the public eye. But that's just my feeling towards rapists.

IF he's innocent, then the girl deserves the same vilification that Evans has had.

I wouldn't necessarily want him at Roots Hall, at this point in time, due to the unwanted baggage that comes with him.

 

[GBJ]

You also claim that top lawyers can result in juries making the wrong decision .

They don't have to be top lawyers, just smarter than their opposite number. As I've said, I know it's happened.

Secondly, research the Mike Tyson trial for further, high profile explanation of how this type of thing happens

 

[GBJ]

If he appeals and the appeal goes in his favour then his not a rapist.
There have been miscarriages of justice on numerous occasions but not to the extent that you would randomly pick criminals to ponder in their guilt.

I've not randomly picked this man to ponder his guilt? It's everywhere, most forums, social media etc. The fact is, many people have differing opinions on this case. There seems to be talking points, which will Inevitably bring about discussion, hence why after all this time, we're still discussing it. It seems the majority here, believe he's guilty. Whereas another Forum I use, A boxing forum, many people believe Evans was stitched up. That proves its a debatable case, no?

It just seems like the politics of distraction in this context. I find it disrespectful to the victim and the **** that she will have gone through to get to that point to then discuss the validity of the verdict.

No-one's disrespecting the victim at all?

A discussion on miscarriages of justice is a valid discussion but why people are so insist ant on having it here troubles me. In the context of the opening post I don't get why people's first thought would be to question his guilt. Feels very chauvinistic (and I'm aware it's not just men who have jumped to that thought).

We've obviously digressed from my origional question, but as it's all relative to the origional question, I don't see much harm in it

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Just seen on BBC website that Sheff Utd have retracted offer for Evans to use training facilities at club. That's that then.

 

[Jam_Man]

They were getting far too much flack for them to carry on.

 

[mrsblue]

Just seen on BBC website that Sheff Utd have retracted offer for Evans to use training facilities at club. That's that then.

Right move by them and saves them hassle.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

My money is on him signing for Rotherham

 

[OldBlueLady]

My money is on him signing for Rotherham

Well, we know that fat sweaty scumbag of a manager has no scruples!!!

My money is still on Evans going abroad.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Well, we know that fat sweaty scumbag of a manager has no scruples!!!

My money is still on Evans going abroad.

I wonder if early release from prison prevents him from working in any other countries - his legal status is that he can be recalled to prison if he infringes any release clauses.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

My money is on him signing for Rotherham

Any club that takes him on has got to be crazy.
The backlash isn't worth it. The dragging of the clubs name and reputation through the mud, isn't worth it. All the bad publicity, isn't worth it. Some players and staff will be against him, so disrupting team spirit, isn't worth it.

 

[LCBB]

Rape is an evil crime , drunk driving and killing children , some will say is as bad , how was McCormick forgiven .

 

[mrsblue]

Any club that takes him on has got to be crazy.
The backlash isn't worth it. The dragging of the clubs name and reputation through the mud, isn't worth it. All the bad publicity, isn't worth it. Some players and staff will be against him, so disrupting team spirit, isn't worth it.

Agreed,

Last week it was revealed Sheff U has still been paying his salary whilst he was in jail a reported 20k a week!

 

[Ricky Otto]

Rape is an evil crime , drunk driving and killing children , some will say is as bad , how was McCormick forgiven .

The thing is he never went out with the intent to kill children, it was a terrible result of the drink driving. Rape has intent and that is what Ched was found guilty of

 

[LCBB]

The thing is he never went out with the intent to kill children, it was a terrible result of the drink driving. Rape has intent and that is what Ched was found guilty of

Would you want McCormick playing for Southend United .

 

[Jam_Man]

Would you want McCormick playing for Southend United .

Most wouldnt, we discussed it at the time. I certainly wouldnt want him here.

KingSHRIMPER is right though, what McCormick did was a an indirect cause of stupidity, what Evan's did was a direct result of planning and intent.

Im not sure anyone will argue the end result was less horrific though.