The EU Referendum - What are the facts, Where are the facts

[londonblue]

So should the UK electorate vote "in" will that be the end of UKIP & Farage? Alternatively if we vote "out" is that the end for Cameron & Osbourn?

In which case we win whatever the decision.

 

[callan]

$3Bn, £2.2Bn.

Still, if it helps desperate people in a desperate situation then that's a good thing isn' it?

As you say, if....

The UK alone has committed to spend 1.2 billion, which goes to relief and actual projects on the ground such as sanitation, food, clean water medication etc.

The 2.2 billion goes directly to Turkey, no doubt they will spend it wisely....

The real news is of course the EU fail to agree... yet again.

Meanwhile due to the EU's complete lack of competence Refugee's will continue to suffer.

I read earlier you wanted the EU to keep our Government's in check, who keeps the EU in check?

 

[Medway Blue]

So talking of "exploding" and "taking this country with them" isn't hyperbole and scaremongering? The Brexiters have no idea how leaving (or remaining) in the EU will impact on the country. I see leaving as a huge, huge gamble, and one I'm not prepared to put my family through.

If Europe can keep a check on the excesses of our "elected" Government (isn't less than 35% of the actual electorate that voted for the current Government?) then I'm all for remaining in the EU.

Hyperbole maybe. But the whole thing is going down the pan and if we remain in then it drags us down with it.

I guess I'm just astounded and sad at some British people's refusal to believe that we can stand on our own two feet. That we need the EU. The EU needs us more than we needs it, and that's why some of the comments from French, German and Spain are getting nasty. No matter what government is in power, we are a liberal, western, advanced democracy and the notion that we are unable to look after ourselves, that we are unable to pass our own laws, that we are unable to draw up our own human rights act, that we are unable to agree our own beneficial trade agreements, that we are unable to look after our own economy.....is sad. It's sad that people have such a lack of faith in our country and feel that we need faceless, unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat fat cats in Brussels to meddle in the things that our own government should have final say on. I'm just sitting here shaking my head in disbelief at some of the stuff I read sometimes.

 

[londonblue]

Here are some facts:

BBC

 

[RHB]

Here are some facts:

BBC

Steady on, whatever next?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Here are some facts:

BBC

Steady on, whatever next?

Looked more like opinions to me-but ones I happen to agree with.:winking:

 

[callan]

Looked more like opinions to me-but ones I happen to agree with.:winking:

Yep the whole article was almost bereft of facts.

Still nice to see you agreeing with what our Bilderberg chum has to say:winking:

 

[RHB]

As a matter of interest, has anyone learnt anything in terms of unbiased facts from any of the articles on this thread? I've found a few snippets on here which have helped for what it's worth, so thank you to those that have added value.

 

[callan]

As a matter of interest, has anyone learnt anything in terms of unbiased facts from any of the articles on this thread? I've found a few snippets on here which have helped for what it's worth, so thank you to those that have added value.

I think what it has highlighted, is how few facts there actually are.

There's an almost endless supply of opinion, but little in the way of hard evidence (not the fault of this thread).

I think for me what is important, is that many younger Zoners cannot remember anything pre EU, and the four cornerstones it created.

When we went into the EU (eec) it was as much a leap in the dark then as it will be if we come out now.

 

[RHB]

I think what it has highlighted, is how few facts there actually are.

There's an almost endless supply of opinion, but little in the way of hard evidence (not the fault of this thread).

I think for me what is important, is that many younger Zoners cannot remember anything pre EU, and the four cornerstones it created.

When we went into the EU (eec) it was as much a leap in the dark then as it will be if we come out now.

Back in the day, a lot more people i) took more interest in the politics of the day, and ii) a lot more people believed the politicians of the day. So when we first joined it was seen as an great economic opportunity for our exports. And it probably was. Time and bureaucrats (including ours) have made that economic dream look a bit sour. That said I would still rather be inside the tent....................

 

[londonblue]

Looked more like opinions to me-but ones I happen to agree with.:winking:

Sorry, I left off the smiley, and I guess no-one noticed the tongue in my cheek.

As others have said, most of this argument is opinion because it's almost impossible to say for certain if membership has been good or bad (because you can't know what would have happened if we hadn't joined), and whether leaving will be good or bad (because no-one has a crystal ball). The simple truth is that people will have to use their best guess, and listen to other peoples' opinions, to shape their own opinion.

However, some opinions are worth more than others, and the head of the BoE would be one I would listen to.

 

[Napster]

However, some opinions are worth more than others.

In your opinion.

 

[callan]

Back in the day, a lot more people i) took more interest in the politics of the day, and ii) a lot more people believed the politicians of the day. So when we first joined it was seen as an great economic opportunity for out exports. And it probably was. Time and bureaucrats (including ours) have made that economic dream look a bit sour. That said I would still rather be inside the tent....................

I'm still undecided, If the EU was capable of significant reform, or more in line with the original EEC I would have no hesitation to vote in.

I actually don't think it will matter how we vote, eventually I can see the EU in it's current guise collapsing, it's too big and undemocratic to succeed.

 

[superblue24]

Everyone should vote to leave.

The "No" vote will not be ratified by the MEPs, but they will take the decision of the people and use it to bargain for a much better deal and will actually show those tossers that the UK is disillusioned and generally want "out" of Europe.

Vote to stay "In" and everything will stay as it is.

There is absolutely NO chance that the UK will leave the EU, even if its 90/10 in favour....

 

[RHB]

Everyone should vote to leave.

The "No" vote will not be ratified by the MEPs, but they will take the decision of the people and use it to bargain for a much better deal and will actually show those tossers that the UK is disillusioned and generally want "out" of Europe.

Vote to stay "In" and everything will stay as it is.

There is absolutely NO chance that the UK will leave the EU, even if its 90/10 in favour....

Do you mean in favour of leaving? If the referendum vote was 90/10 in favour of leaving then we would leave.

 

[superblue24]

Do you mean in favour of leaving? If the referendum vote was 90/10 in favour of leaving then we would leave.

Not if the MEPs don't want it (which they don't). The decision of whether we leave the EU is no more than a big bargaining chip. Nothing more.

people need to realise that voting to leave = voting to get a better deal - and no more.

 

[RHB]

Not if the MEPs don't want it (which they don't). The decision of whether we leave the EU is no more than a big bargaining chip. Nothing more.

people need to realise that voting to leave = voting to get a better deal - and no more.

I'm not sure I understand the logic there. If we vote to leave then it's final. I'm not aware it's a bargaining chip and I certainly haven't seen either side of the 'yes/no' clubs saying it is.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I tbink Superblue is referring to the Ireland vote some years ago. It went the wrong way for the EU so tbey had another one.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Not if the MEPs don't want it (which they don't). The decision of whether we leave the EU is no more than a big bargaining chip. Nothing more.

people need to realise that voting to leave = voting to get a better deal - and no more.

As misinformation goes I think this is the winner. If we vote to leave then we leave. The Conservative government would not survive a leave vote and we then stay.

 

[maninasuitcase]

I'm not sure I understand the logic there. If we vote to leave then it's final. I'm not aware it's a bargaining chip and I certainly haven't seen either side of the 'yes/no' clubs saying it is.

Both Boris Johnson and Michael Howard suggested this might be an option when they came 'out.'

However, I would think most of the outers would expect us to make a clean break if that is the result of the vote. After all the Referendum is not part of a poltical game of chicken with the EU.