The EU Referendum

[MK Shrimper]

That's my thinking and that seemed to be a major factor for those voting out.

Yep. The EU aren't going to make this "divorce" easy by any means.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yep. The EU aren't going to make this "divorce" easy by any means.

Some of the alternatives to free movement are just mind boggling.

Don't think the EU are likely to be over impressed by some of the alternatives already suggested, eg a limited form of the Aussie style points system, along with a definite job offer before entry is allowed.

Not really joined up thinking.

It's now clear that Brexiteers don't really have a clue about how to manage immigration.

Ironically,even the much vaunted Aussie points style system itself-so beloved by NF,Boris et al in the leave camp during the referendum campaign,-was an attempt to increase immigration rather than to reduce it,which is precisely why St. Theresa ruled it out for the UK on Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...exiteers-immigration-policy-johnson-davis-fox

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The threat made by John Nelson is based upon the assumption that a Brexit deal to guarantee the London financial services markets continued access to the single market cannot be reached. An assumption that, in my oh so humble opinion, is way off the mark.

A deal to remain part of the single market can be reached. The question is whether you'd accept the deal when it doesn't give us outright control over immigration. Or maybe the question is whether Brexit fanatics are sufficiently on top of the detail to notice when they are being sold a pup. Ultimately I think most people just want this to go away so this is probably the route we'll end up down.

And it would very much be down as it would be a pyrrhic victory to give up influence in EU (we've already lost the EU presidency, Jonathan Hill as commissioner and were shut out when the EU met recently) in return for "controls" on immigration that won't be used or won't make a difference.

Some of the alternatives to free movement are just mind boggling.

Don't think the EU are likely to be over impressed by some of the alternatives already suggested, eg a limited form of the Aussie style points system, along with a definite job offer before entry is allowed.

Not really joined up thinking.

It's now clear that Brexiteers don't really have a clue about how to manage immigration.

Ironically,even the much vaunted Aussie points style system itself-so beloved by NF,Boris et al in the leave camp during the referendum campaign,-was an attempt to increase immigration rather than to reduce it,which is precisely why St. Theresa ruled it out for the UK on Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...exiteers-immigration-policy-johnson-davis-fox

Can't you just support Brexit like your hero Corbyn? Once you do this I'm sure everything will be fine.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I never wanted or expected outright control over immigration. Nor was I willing to accept that the EU had de facto complete control over our borders when it came to the migration and free movement of peoples. That's why I'm willing to accept that there will have to be some compromise from the UK Government, as well as the other EU nation states, concerning this issue. I don't see it as a one or the other option and never have.

I have no doubt that post Brexit will see both winners and losers from across the manufacturing and service industries. That's inevitable considering the magnitude of the task at hand but after weighing up all the supposed impartial information I could find I voted Brexit and I now look forward to the future with both hope and optimism, a little trepidation and a belief that after all said and done we will come out of this a more independent and prosperous country.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I never wanted or expected outright control over immigration. Nor was I willing to accept that the EU had de facto complete control over our borders when it came to the migration and free movement of peoples. That's why I'm willing to accept that there will have to be some compromise from the UK Government, as well as the other EU nation states, concerning this issue. I don't see it as a one or the other option and never have.

I have no doubt that post Brexit will see both winners and losers from across the manufacturing and service industries. That's inevitable considering the magnitude of the task at hand but after weighing up all the supposed impartial information I could find I voted Brexit and I now look forward to the future with both hope and optimism, a little trepidation and a belief that after all said and done we will come out of this a more independent and prosperous country.

So what did you want out of Brexit?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A deal to remain part of the single market can be reached. The question is whether you'd accept the deal when it doesn't give us outright control over immigration. Or maybe the question is whether Brexit fanatics are sufficiently on top of the detail to notice when they are being sold a pup. Ultimately I think most people just want this to go away so this is probably the route we'll end up down.

And it would very much be down as it would be a pyrrhic victory to give up influence in EU (we've already lost the EU presidency, Jonathan Hill as commissioner and were shut out when the EU met recently) in return for "controls" on immigration that won't be used or won't make a difference.



Can't you just support Brexit like your hero Corbyn? Once you do this I'm sure everything will be fine.

It's news to me that JC is/was a supporter of Brexit.

Something lost in translation perhaps.:winking:

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's news to me that JC is/was a supporter of Brexit.

Something lost in translation perhaps.:winking:

Not a particularly reliable source but this article touches on it

 

[Benfleet A1]

It's news to me that JC is/was a supporter of Brexit.

Something lost in translation perhaps.:winking:

He had the perfect oppotunity at PMQ's to beat May to death over Brexit and what did he do? Questions about housing and womens refuees. He blew a gilt edged, heaven sent chance to knock chunks out of the government and ballsed up royally. If that's what the leader of the oppositions idea of being a remainer is then get used to that word, opposition.

He's a idiot and will kill what remains of the labour party.

 

[callan]

don't hold a referendum unless you are 100% sure you will win, and are ready for the consequences if you don't.

No they haven't learnt that though have they?....if that was the case why are there Labour Mp's who support a second referendum?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not a particularly reliable source but this article touches on it

Here's a more up to date article which details JC's views on the single market.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ect-key-aspects-of-single-market-after-brexit

Apparently,he's in favour of a "hard Brexit" deal.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He had the perfect oppotunity at PMQ's to beat May to death over Brexit and what did he do? Questions about housing and womens refuees. He blew a gilt edged, heaven sent chance to knock chunks out of the government and ballsed up royally. If that's what the leader of the oppositions idea of being a remainer is then get used to that word, opposition.

He's a idiot and will kill what remains of the labour party.

Housing is clearly the most important single domestic issue for the vast majority of British people.

There will be plenty of opportunities in the future to take on St.Theresa over Brexit.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Here's a more up to date article which details JC's view on the single market.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ect-key-aspects-of-single-market-after-brexit

Apparently,he's in favour of a "hard Brexit" deal.

Do you support his stance?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No they haven't learnt that though have they?....if that was the case why are there Labour Mp's who support a second referendum?

If you're talking about Owen Smith he's going to be toast before the end of the month.

 

[callan]

If you're talking about Owen Smith he's going to be toast before the end of the month.

Oh there's more than one Barna....as you well know.

Good to see though that you can recognise AAS's earlier contribution to the debate was complete bollocks :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh there's more than one Barna....as you well know.

Good to see though that you can recognise AAS's earlier contribution to the debate was complete bollocks :smile:

There are certainly some of the nameless and faceless, 170 disloyal Labour MP's, who should either get behind their elected leader at the end of the month or face deselection.

Btw,I don't think *** has ever talked "bollocks" on here.Unlike some people I could mention. :smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No they haven't learnt that though have they?....if that was the case why are there Labour Mp's who support a second referendum?

because the government, the country pretty much no-one seems ready for the consequences - that is why some Labour MPs back a 2nd referendum (plus the fact the leave or stay options were presented with a stack of lies)

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh there's more than one Barna....as you well know.

Good to see though that you can recognise AAS's earlier contribution to the debate was complete bollocks :smile:

isn't it about time you grew up a little and stopped twisting people's words and trying to play them off against each other. You are making what could be an interesting discussion an annoying waste of time.

 

[callan]

If Labour have learnt something then do tell us what it is....

don't hold a referendum unless you are 100% sure you will win, and are ready for the consequences if you don't.

No they haven't learnt that though have they?....if that was the case why are there Labour Mp's who support a second referendum?

because the government, the country pretty much no-one seems ready for the consequences - that is why some Labour MPs back a 2nd referendum (plus the fact the leave or stay options were presented with a stack of lies)

So on the one hand you are claiming Labour have learnt not to hold a referendum as their lesson.... but a couple of days later are telling us there are Labour mp's and as Barna rightly points out a Leadership contender who would have another referendum????

I can see why you're annoyed as clearly one of your posts is incorrect....I am happy for you to point out to me where I have twisted your words so we can have a grown up discussion on the matter :smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So on the one hand you are claiming Labour have learnt not to hold a referendum as their lesson.... but a couple of days later are telling us there are Labour mp's and as Barna rightly points out a Leadership contender who would have another referendum????

I can see why you're annoyed as clearly one of your posts is incorrect....I am happy for you to point out to me where I have twisted your words so we can have a grown up discussion on the matter :smile:

1 don't try to pit me against Barna

2 see the Corbyn thread for the latest example of you pretending I have said the opposite of what I actually said

3 Labour did not call a referendum on Scotland or the EU. 'Some' Labour MPs would like a 2nd referendum in order to reverse the referendum that they never wanted in the first place.

All of these things are really easy to grasp if you want to and easy to pretend not to grasp if you would rather that.

And that is where we are at and a good place to finish.

 

[callan]

1 don't try to pit me against Barna

2 see the Corbyn thread for the latest example of you pretending I have said the opposite of what I actually said

3 Labour did not call a referendum on Scotland or the EU. 'Some' Labour MPs would like a 2nd referendum in order to reverse the referendum that they never wanted in the first place.

All of these things are really easy to grasp if you want to and easy to pretend not to grasp if you would rather that.

And that is where we are at and a good place to finish.

What is easy to grasp here, is that you have been found out contradicting yourself....and you don't like it.

Your blind loyalty to all things Labour and Corbyn hampers your ability to post objectively and when challenged you sulk....like now.

As to where we are at, may I respectfully suggest you consider more thought behind what you post....that way you can avoid looking silly in future.:winking: