Winding Up Order Wednesday

[amsemp]

Don't know, don't care.

I lost any respect I still had for him when I heard he’d supported Macclesfield‘s winding up petition over £182k. A man worth around £50m married to a woman worth more than that.

 

[geoffmundo]

Apologies if it has been mentioned on another thread, but when is the EFL seasonal payments due to be received, i believe this is twice a season with the 1st payment made in Sept, or do we not receive it because of our financial position?

 

[onceknownasrab]

I don't think people are concerned that Ron doesn't want to save the club. They are concerned that he can't.

Maybe he can't but nobody on this board knows and yet many seem to say he can't/wont. Time will tell.

 

[rowe23]

That is my understanding from what I've read/heard. But clarity ftom an official source would be nice.

I was under the impression that if we provided evidence to the EFL that the debt was cleared and all football debt is clear (monies owed to other clubs and players) that an embargo would be lifted. I don’t believe it is tied to the court date, but I could be wrong, just my interpretation of the regulations.

 

[Austin the Shrimper]

Probably because there isn't much to say and the Anti-Ronnies are filling the board up. Not sure why you feel the need to badge people Pro-Ronnies anyway, all folk are doing is voicing an opinion, and as you know all reasoned opinions are welcome on ShrimperZone.

People are more in there comfort zone thinking the worst, that way if it happens, they think it might not be so bad. “It’s the hope that kills you”

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

The point maybe not fully being grasped is that the difference is its not us asking the judge for adjournments its HMRC.

This is a really good point - it wasn't Ron who asked for more time to pay, it was HMRC who spoke and said "we've had some payments, we'd like to give SUFC some more time to pay the rest". Our barrister said, that's fine. The judge said, that's fine. He moved on.

It was done and dusted very quickly.

The Macclesfield hearing was in stark contrast to this - months and months of missed promises, lack of evidence etc. and everyone had run out of patience.

 

[Shrimper]

Apologies if it has been mentioned on another thread, but when is the EFL seasonal payments due to be received, i believe this is twice a season with the 1st payment made in Sept, or do we not receive it because of our financial position?

Weren't they brought forward to help during COVID ?

 

[Leo210856]

Macclesfield had applied for 12 adjournments of the 2019 petition. Looks like the judge just ran out of patience with their prevarication. Maybe Martin has a bit of wriggle room left if he continues to make token payments before FF finally goes ahead?

The simple reason that is was adjourned is that HMRC didn’t object.
There is no doubt that HMRC will be happier having received something as opposed to nothing but the issue as much as anything is how much linked and currently enforceable debt is there.

Its hard to see how without gate money, without monies that come about as part of match day income, without furlough how the balance of the WUO will be found in six weeks.

Macclesfields debt included sums due to HMRC. and not subject to aWUO. I dread to think what the sums due are and without the 2018/19 accounts still not visible on Companies House we are looking at figures over two years out of date.

I would very very much doubt that the club would go into Administration as that throws up the likelihood that the whole shooting match would then be controlled by a n other and at that point Winding Up could be more likely.

So one way or another the bulk of the remaining sum due under the WUO needs to be found and found but I would hazard a guess that even if it is another Order will be issued almost immediately

 

[Leo210856]

Weren't they brought forward to help during COVID ?

Yep they were

 

[Leo210856]

This is a really good point - it wasn't Ron who asked for more time to pay, it was HMRC who spoke and said "we've had some payments, we'd like to give SUFC some more time to pay the rest". Our barrister said, that's fine. The judge said, that's fine. He moved on.

It was done and dusted very quickly.

The Macclesfield hearing was in stark contrast to this - months and months of missed promises, lack of evidence etc. and everyone had run out of patience.

Dont read too much into that as the whole procedure would have been agreed by the two parties in advance and as it was HMRCs action they would address the court first

 

[Colchester and proud!]

I do wonder what this will do for your players desire to perform well, what with the clubs financial clouds getting darker over the club and I would have thought the strong possibility of not getting paid on time. MM will have to be very convincing to keep them positive about better times ahead.

 

[Jai]

There doesn't seem much point in vilifying Ron. Yes, most of us wish the club was better run, but Ron is clearly trying to pay the debts. The situation has been exacerbated with COVID and there is no point calling on him to sell because he's going nowhere until Fossetts is sorted because he stands to gain too much.

The issue is cash flow and we do need to hear how he intends to pay this £491,000. If he is struggling, he needs to swallow his pride and say so because we have a strong fan base and trying to raise the money in 42 days should not be impossible. Talk to the Trust, who have some funds (although probably not anywhere near the amount required) and get the fans mobilised.

I suppose we should wait to hear what he has to say. The positive is that he has clearly been trying to pay and has whittled the debt down despite the lack of income coming into the club.

But none us really knows the financial situation the club is in right now. It looks bad, but we remain closer than ever to the FF golden goose (at least for Ron) so I am sure Ron just needs to buy time.

On the pitch though, the situation is very bleak indeed as a result of this.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Dont read too much into that as the whole procedure would have been agreed by the two parties in advance and as it was HMRCs action they would address the court first

I bow to your better legal knowledge. It all seemed very good natured and matter of fact. I assume if it was discussed before that HMRC have had reasonable assurances that the money will be forthcoming.

 

[geoffmundo]

Yep they were

damn, then probably already spent

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

What's Rigsby's take on this ?

He won't say anything today - but in a few days he'll throw some mud at posters over-reactions, remind people that Ron has saved the club so many times before, ask someone what they'd have done differently, tell people that there isn't a queue of people waiting to buy the club and finish with something along the lines of "be careful what you wish for"

But he won't acknowledge Ron has done anything wrong at all

 

[NZamba Legend]

I do wonder what this will do for your players desire to perform well, what with the clubs financial clouds getting darker over the club and I would have thought the strong possibility of not getting paid on time. MM will have to be very convincing to keep them positive about better times ahead.

HMRC are obviously convinced we are going to pay on the evidence they have seen. I guess that's why MM is on board and so are the players.

 

[kentblues]

I was under the impression that if we provided evidence to the EFL that the debt was cleared and all football debt is clear (monies owed to other clubs and players) that an embargo would be lifted. I don’t believe it is tied to the court date, but I could be wrong, just my interpretation of the regulations.

The regulations don't mention court dates. The reason being the Default Event is the late payment irrespective of whether HMRC issues court proceedings or not. The end of that Default Event is when the debt is paid. So if we pay it and HMRC confirms same to the EFL by the EFL regulations the Default Event is ended and so should be the embargo?

Of course my trust in the EFL and regulations is somewhat limited hence I was and am very open to be told I am wrong. But it would be a case of secret regulations applying rather than the ones actually written down?

Oh sorry for those interested

EFL Official Website - Section 4 - Clubs

www.efl.com

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ron is stripping out the football side ... same as last time .. big money will be arriving with the developments moving forward (just like the 5m from Sainsburys)

I don't really worry about the big picture - SUFC is so asset rich its cannot go wrong -

its just horrible watching him destroy the football side and peoples careers with it.

LOL at SUFC being asset rich. It has next to nothing in its name.

Well I bow to you greater knowledge of how it all works. So you can confirm even if we paid in full 1st Oct and HMRC confirmed the debt had been paid in full the EFL would refuse to lift the embargo?

Why would HMRC confirm this to a third party?

 

[Colchester and proud!]

HMRC are obviously convinced we are going to pay on the evidence they have seen. I guess that's why MM is on board and so are the players.

I hope for all you loyal fans that this mess gets sorted eventually.

 

[Leo210856]

There doesn't seem much point in vilifying Ron. Yes, most of us wish the club was better run, but Ron is clearly trying to pay the debts. The situation has been exacerbated with COVID and there is no point calling on him to sell because he's going nowhere until Fossetts is sorted because he stands to gain too much.

The issue is cash flow and we do need to hear how he intends to pay this £491,000. If he is struggling, he needs to swallow his pride and say so because we have a strong fan base and trying to raise the money in 42 days should not be impossible. Talk to the Trust, who have some funds (although probably not anywhere near the amount required) and get the fans mobilised.

I suppose we should wait to hear what he has to say. The positive is that he has clearly been trying to pay and has whittled the debt down despite the lack of income coming into the club.

But none us really knows the financial situation the club is in right now. It looks bad, but we remain closer than ever to the FF golden goose (at least for Ron) so I am sure Ron just needs to buy time.

On the pitch though, the situation is very bleak indeed as a result of this.

There Is no doubt that the sum due under the WUO has reduced but the relevant and more pressing question is what ,if any, other HMRC enforceable debts are outstanding