Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-0 Colchester United

[Gridelet's contact lens]

That's a really great summary of the process Ollie, but can we have more detail please? ?
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Seriously, that is undoubtedly the post of the season.
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So, why on earth would you entertain Niles Ranger in that mix?

 

[duncan bulgaria]

So with people applauding OS44 post does this also mean that Ron gets credit too , he identified MM , pretty sure he was the main driver in signing macca and Hart again - 2 players that have made a real impact in the turn around of results ??

 

[Chrisb]

I just have so much respect for John White
Even when he has a bad day (which does happen from time to time ) he always gives 100% and never hides
He looks a model pro and his presence in or around the squad must be worth a contract extension in the New Year

I can't think that his contract extension would be in any doubt - MM always speaks highly of JW - we have improved so much and I don't see a vital part of the team spirit will asked to leave, certainly in the short term. Although not without his injury problems, I am sure JW contributes a lot more to the club than just his on field performances.

 

[Bar na bas]

We made the BBC's EFL round up of the week. Long may the recovery continue.

EFL: Wayne Rooney's Derby County lose on a day of comebacks and wonder goals - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55454141

 

[londonblue]

A silver lining for Col Ewe is that I now forgive them for thrashing us in that dead rubber earlier in the season. I'm sure that will make them feel better: the great londonblue has forgiven them!

 

[davewebbsbrain]

So with people applauding OS post does this also mean that Ron gets credit too , he identified MM , pretty sure he was the main driver in signing macca and Hart again - 2 players that have made a real impact in the turn around of results ??

It doesn't feature in people's agendas so I doubt it, but it's true

 

[mfurok]

You do make me smile.

You’ve somehow tried to turn this around from being MMs biggest critic and the person with the most negative outlook on his work to using the situation to somehow demonstrate that you were right all along and MM has somehow followed your advice ?

Whilst the match day tactics have evolved this only demonstrates to me just how little experience you must have on the inside workings of a football club at any level let alone elite.

The “process” and the “project” really has about as much to do with matchday tactics as I had in loading Santa’s sleigh with my 4 year olds presents!

The project and process was about the culture of the football club. The mentality of the players. The training ethics. The timekeeping. The diets. The pre training approach and the pre match approach as well as post game and post training (of all staff not just the players). Did the players follow their re hab programmes as well as their pre hab (injury prevention) programmes diligently and conscientiously. The expectation levels the staff have of the players and the players have of the staff had to change and the demands placed on the expected levels of their performances on the grass, at boots and laces more than at any stadium, had to increase.

This takes time and lots of it, and before anyone gets too ahead of themselves it’s about 15% along the line at the moment. Most importantly it takes characters of a certain type to be in and around your club. In your dressing room. On your training pitch. In your ear and most definitely in the ear of the other players who may not be as experienced or as professional. These players are the ones that reiterate the message. Really hammer it homey day in and day out.

Players like John White, Alan McCormack, Mark Oxley and JD are playing a huge part in the project and the process. Even the likes of Tim Dieng are playing their part and before anyone points out these players were already at the club, it’s the manager and the strength in nos that’s making the difference. These players aren’t being distracted by more powerful influences in the dressing room, they are becoming the majority and are becoming THE powerful influences.

Even early season, these players weren’t on the grass and maybe they didn’t quite trust what MM was bringing to the table at the all important part which is around the club away from the grass. It wasn’t like he was a proven manager with a track record of turning clubs around coming in that they would all immediately fall in line for. These players had seen Bond and Campbell and were rightly sceptical.

Even the loan signings were vital to get right. Players coming in from football clubs that already had a process in place. Players that had the good habits that clubs higher up the pyramid breed in their 8 year olds and ensure are of the highest order by the time they are given pro contracts. Recruitment and education of your players is as much about attitude and ethics as it is about their ability - as we have found?

The process and the project is about all of these things and it’s about how this affects the players that are not the most influential but the most influenced.....

You can criticise some of our younger players that found life tough at Southend but look at the environment we were asking them to flourish in. 5 managers in 24 months. No strategy. Definitely no PROCESS. Talking in riddles. Not talking to them at all.

The senior pros whose responsibility it was to nurture them, to chastise them, to teach them, to bollock them, to make it hard for them to break through so it meant something when they did and most importantly to carry them through games and through periods in games where it was tough and to let them open their wings and fly when it was going well.....just as senior pros had done to them in their youth....let them down, by not showing the right example themselves.

These players like Kelman and Hutchinson needed Alan McCormack three years ago. They needed two more John Whites and two more JDs. They needed a fit and motivated Dieng, a confident Oxley....they got a permanently injured JD, Coker and Mantom, they got a Tom Hopper on the treatment table not a Tom Hopper who could’ve been the best striker in the division, they got a demotivated McLaughlin, a Simon Cox taking care of himself....the list goes on.

The project and the process isn’t wanting and trying to play one way because you’ve assessed the threadbare inexperienced squad that are technically blessed but lacking the leadership physicality and minerals required to play in league 2. It isn’t realising that the players at your disposal right now can really only play one way and that’s to try and use that technical ability and hope it isn’t ruthlessly exposed and it’s not changing the Matchday tactics slightly and being more direct once you have a few more players at your disposal that can carry out that game plan more adequately than others had been able to.

No the project and the process is all the other stuff and turning the mentality of a football club that’s known nothing but losing for pretty much 3 maybe 4 seasons around into one that has some belief and some direction and an identity and strength to match its fanbase.

My bet is you’ll see the return of some different match day tactics over the course of MMs contract that return to a more cultured style of football. That’ll be all part of the project and process that he talks about. But it’s a long long road....right now is a short term way of overcoming some rather large bumps not the end goal.

Glad I make you smile.

It's reciprocated.

A football club may be working on or have even completed its project to put in place the best processes. If, despite this, it still continually loses football matches because, at the direction of the football manager, the team keep passing the ball across their own 18 yard box, passing backwards, putting throw ins in the opposition half back to their own goalkeeper and rarely having shots on target, the football manager will eventually lose his or her job.

I'm pleased to see that, at last, MM has realised this and altered his tactics accordingly. If he hadn't, he would not have achieved the major objective in his job description which, this season, is to avoid relegation to the National League.

Nobody (apart from perhaps Colchester and Proud and nevereatwhitesnow) wants to see that.

With regard to your: Whilst the match day tactics have evolved this only demonstrates to me just how little experience you must have on the inside workings of a football club at any level let alone elite. I can only say that the tactics have not evolved, they have changed completely and I was making no comment whatsoever on the inside workings of a football club.

I have always left that to Grapevine and Tombstone Blue............and now you.

 

[OllieSteph44]

Clearly you barely read, let alone digested my post or you would’ve realised that my point was, if the process and the project is put in place and trusted then the results will inevitably improve, providing the person implementing this is worthy of the job. Personally I have always held the belief from day 1 that MM was good enough to do this.

Of course, along the way there will be several incarnations and short term fixes to overcome difficult times....that is in fact the very essence of “a process” and exactly what’s needed in order to improve the position of not only the first team results but the condition of a football club on order to secure a better long term future.

It seems many many people have seen that and actually enjoyed or appreciated and maybe even understood my post. However, I didn’t expect you to enjoy or appreciate that of course, which is fine, it’s a forum and you are perfectly entitled to negatively oppose pretty much everything I say.

 

[overseas shrimper]

So with people applauding OS44 post does this also mean that Ron gets credit too , he identified MM , pretty sure he was the main driver in signing macca and Hart again - 2 players that have made a real impact in the turn around of results ??

On the MM appointment, if our form continues to.improve, he definitely deserves credit (I've always been more in the 'for' camp for MM and felt he needed time and hands untying).

Not sure how much influence or sway he had in those signings, so won't give him credit there.

However, as much as he does get my goat in many ways, we still have a club to support during a horrendously difficult time, had our embargo lifted, signing players and getting closer to that new ground.

Credit where credit's due.

 

[sufc4life21]

So with people applauding OS44 post does this also mean that Ron gets credit too , he identified MM , pretty sure he was the main driver in signing macca and Hart again - 2 players that have made a real impact in the turn around of results ??

Ron the reason why we are in the bottom 2!

 

[bluesfansince1952]

Definitely, as had he not bothered to find at half a million we would not have a position in the league table as we would have gone out of existence.
And Stevenage would be 21st,

 

[united blues]

@mforuk and @OllieSteph44 ..Great posts and I can see both angles. I pulled this from Sam Allardyce and it has some relevance regarding the embargo etc.
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How to restore morale during a losing streak

Just as there’s a winning habit, there is also a losing habit. It just shows the importance of mentality, whatever level you play at: footballers are 75 per cent confidence. If you’ve got the same team week in, week out, that’s the only area really to turn it round – the team’s mental preparation going into each game is crucial. You can change the mentality by changing the team around or asking the players to follow slightly different tactics until you get back on course; if you’re losing games by the odd goal then the first thing to do is to stop conceding. Focus on your strengths and ask them to remember what they felt like when they won nine on the trot – put that in their minds as a positive.


 

[Shrimp and two veg]

A silver lining for Col Ewe is that I now forgive them for thrashing us in that dead rubber earlier in the season. I'm sure that will make them feel better: the great londonblue has forgiven them!

I think Molsely hadn't expected the amount of disgust after getting a thrashing that night, a lot of posters on here were very miffed and gave him both barrels the day after. Meaningless fixture or not, don't lose to our local rivals and certainly not a stuffing.
I hope he realises we all hate Orient.
I'll be proper piffed off with a trouncing in Leyton, regardless of the league table that suggests a hammering for us.
Absolutely love smashing the O's, but we have no right other than the form guide...

 

[Holy Joe]

@mforuk and @OllieSteph44 ..Great posts and I can see both angles. I pulled this from Sam Allardyce and it has some relevance regarding the embargo etc.
.
How to restore morale during a losing streak

Just as there’s a winning habit, there is also a losing habit. It just shows the importance of mentality, whatever level you play at: footballers are 75 per cent confidence. If you’ve got the same team week in, week out, that’s the only area really to turn it round – the team’s mental preparation going into each game is crucial. You can change the mentality by changing the team around or asking the players to follow slightly different tactics until you get back on course; if you’re losing games by the odd goal then the first thing to do is to stop conceding. Focus on your strengths and ask them to remember what they felt like when they won nine on the trot – put that in their minds as a positive.


Good job Allardyce wasn't appointed - he'd never have turned it round

 

[mfurok]

Clearly you barely read, let alone digested my post or you would’ve realised that my point was, if the process and the project is put in place and trusted then the results will inevitably improve, providing the person implementing this is worthy of the job. Personally I have always held the belief from day 1 that MM was good enough to do this.

Of course, along the way there will be several incarnations and short term fixes to overcome difficult times....that is in fact the very essence of “a process” and exactly what’s needed in order to improve the position of not only the first team results but the condition of a football club on order to secure a better long term future.

It seems many many people have seen that and actually enjoyed or appreciated and maybe even understood my post. However, I didn’t expect you to enjoy or appreciate that of course, which is fine, it’s a forum and you are perfectly entitled to negatively oppose pretty much everything I say.

You appear to have short term memory loss.

It was you who negatively opposed my post 90 in your usual patronising manner, which has drawn criticism on here before, but you are perfectly entitled to negatively oppose pretty much everything I say.

This is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how many aliases they join with.

Keeps it interesting

 

[OllieSteph44]

You appear to have short term memory loss.

It was you who negatively opposed my post 90 in your usual patronising manner, which has drawn criticism on here before, but you are perfectly entitled to negatively oppose pretty much everything I say.

This is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how many aliases they join with.

Keeps it interesting

Pretty sure you are the only person here who considers post 99 of mine patronizing or negative.

 

[RHB]

A request for @OllieSteph44 and @mfurok. Please don't turn this debate into a name calling session. Neither of you need to go there, just argue your corner sensibly please.

 

[mfurok]

Pretty sure you are the only person here who considers post 99 of mine patronizing or negative.

Whilst the match day tactics have evolved this only demonstrates to me just how little experience you must have on the inside workings of a football club at any level let alone elite.

 

[mfurok]

A request for @OllieSteph44 and @mfurok. Please don't turn this debate into a name calling session. Neither of you need to go there, just argue your corner sensibly please.

We're playing much more sensible football now and we're all absolutely delighted it's working......whatever the reasons.

 

[OllieSteph44]

Whilst the match day tactics have evolved this only demonstrates to me just how little experience you must have on the inside workings of a football club at any level let alone elite.

Sensitive ol bugger aren’t you ??. If my time around SUFC has given me one thing it’s a thicker skin.