Backroom Staff Salary Issues

[Carl]

i think everyone who is interested in resolving the ownership issue needs to inform themselves of the (plentiful) alternatives.

Because of a family connection I followed way the fans at Portsmouth took control and they seemed to have an effective model.

A united fans organisation would easily have the necessary financial muscle to run the club.

When RM goes the debt goes with him .

I believe the administrators would be delighted to deal with a properly constituted fans organisation.

IF i was RM my biggest fear would be a UNITED fans organisation.

If we lose the debt/RM the club is immediately financially viable and a very sweet cherry for investors.

Do your research and look at the Portsmouth pathway.

Not entirely sure Portsmouth is the best example to follow. I know one of the main players behind the scenes on the fans consortium, who has been sharing some words of wisdom with me, I'd rather we learn from their lessons than repeat them.

 

[kentblues]

According to Vanarama rules, employees are classed az 'football creditors'. Defaulting to a football creditor can result in an embargo, fine or points deduction (League Rules 7, section 11, Football creditors).

Be interesting to know what Vanarama considers a "default" - one day late in theory any creditor could issue a notice of default? In practice they don't as they don't want to be an ex-supplier and other approaches work better. Just as well as otherwise the league would be very busy.

The problem here is if its a regular occurrence e.g. monthly for 6 months as has been mooted. I would suggest a default notice normally occurs for regular contractual payments when payments are missed or are for less than the full amount for 3-6 months. Sadly we appear to be in those realms.... That said I find treating staff as creditors in the league rules if that is the effect as distasteful. Paying players, management and backroom staff should have equal importance and equal penalties for failure to meet those commitments IMHO but they clearly don't.

There obviously clearly needs to be a plan to ensure this does not recur. And we may need to cut our cloth both on playing and non-playing staff costs. And Ron needs to go away and understand what funding is required to meet our obligations to the end of the season and get that into the club (I find it difficult to believe no that FF and RH have planning permission the opportunity does nor exist to leverage that to raise the required funds).

I do suspect there is a budget and cash flow forecasts that are consistently awry- whether that is Ron not putting in what he said he would when he would, or it turning out that the budgets or cashflow forecasts were "optimistic" and Ron being reluctant/unable to come up with the difference in a timely manner who knows...

Hopefully this brings it to a head and forces a medium term fix rather than a "death by a thousand cuts"...

 

[happydays]

Does anyone now how much staff wages actually need paying if so can they message me as I may be able to help in short term through my own company

 

[kentblues]

Happy for him to lay into Ron but I think Ben's being a bit harsh on Tom and Stan there. No doubt they both know how bad Ron is at running a club but their options are to either try and keep us afloat in spite of his poor leadership or to walk away and let Ron sink us even further than we already are. Neither choice would be popular with some fans.

Agree. I'm sure Ben wouldn't want to suggest that Tom, Stan, Kev, JS et al are just there as a "decoy"... insulting to them and not true. What they have done thus far is very positive and it was the right thing to do to bring in them and the new structure. In a way we need to separate what they are doing on the playing side from the issues around funding of the club.

 

[Barling Magna]

This is such a disappointing, but sadly not surprising, development. The spiralling inflation and rising interest rates threaten us all but surely it can be better managed than this. It is sickening behaviour to repeatedly exploit the goodwill of underpaid and hard-working employees.

 

[ALW]

If basic wages are not being paid are the VAT and PAYE/NIC (on the wages that are being paid) being paid to HMRC. Missed VAT and PAYE/NIC payments normally mean an immediate transfer embargo at NL level.

can we expect another HMRC winding up petition soon?

 

[kentblues]

Does anyone now how much staff wages actually need paying if so can they message me as I may be able to help in short term through my own company

Would be interesting to know wouldn't it? Last accounts were y/e 2019 so not a lot of use as an indicator. And in previous months it became clear that some backroom staff were being paid and others weren't (so not all). So sizing the problem in terms of ££ will be difficult without the engagement of the club..and Ron has persistently turned down all offers of help..

 

[kentblues]

If basic wages are not being paid are the VAT and PAYE/NIC (on the wages that are being paid) being paid to HMRC. Missed VAT and PAYE/NIC payments normally mean an immediate transfer embargo at NL level.

can we expect another HMRC winding up petition soon?

Regrettably I suspect that paying HMRC is coming ahead of staff wages because the consequences of not paying the former are greater (even in the eyes of the league)....

 

[happydays]

Can we sponsor a member of staffs wages for a year just to help out

 

[Smiffy]

Paid late once can be considered an honest error, an oversight.

Late twice (or more in this clubs case) is inexcusable.

The National League won't take too kindly to it either.

Good on the staff for taking a stand and I am sure all of us back them 100%. I hope they continue to take this stance whilst the problems remain. Hopefully it is resolved soon for them. I can't imagine going one day without my pay cheque, let alone three weeks.

We all await the pearls of wisdom and the corner flag image later. Eyes down for Ronnie Bingo....

"Temporary oversight. Small number of staff. Will be resolved immediately. Should of been picked up by a Senior member of staff"

"The club has and always will be supported fully by it's group companies, as demonstrated by the support given to Kevin in the recruitment of top players like Kacper"

"Stadium progressing well. This club has a fantastic future to come"

"I am the saviour. If I walked tomorrow the club would go bust. There are no offers to buy the club and even if there were, I wouldn't sell. The project will be seen through to its completion by me"

 

[palexander]

Paid late once can be considered an honest error, an oversight.

Late twice (or more in this clubs case) is inexcusable.

The National League won't take too kindly to it either.

Good on the staff for taking a stand and I am sure all of us back them 100%.

We all await the pearls of wisdom and the corner flag image later. Eyes down for Ronnie Bingo....

"Temporary oversight. Small number of staff. Will be resolved immediately. Should of been picked up by a Senior member of staff"

"The club has and always will be supported fully by it's group companies, as demonstrated by the support given to Kevin in the recruitment of top players like Kacper"

"Stadium progressing well. This club has a fantastic future to come"

"I am the saviour. If I walked tomorrow the club would go bust. There are no offers to buy the club and even if there were, I wouldn't sell. The project will be seen through to its completion by me"

I'm gonna go for ... ALL of the above?

 

[Rayleigh boy]

Just a couple of things before the conspiracy theories start.

I didn't rejoin the club to be anyone's patsy, and everyone at the club knows that from the top down, so Benjamin would do well and so would everyone reading this, remember that I'm here to be a part of a positive change which ends with a club that is known for best practice, transparency, accountability and sustainability. All words I know, but everyone who's come in since 2021 and existing staff are working their tails off to move the club forward.

I tread a fine path between a promise to supporters of positive change from last year, a role within the club to influence change or leaving the club and having no influence to change anything.

I will not walk away from the supporters.

In the near year I've been at the club I've seen first hand the work Tom Lawrence, Football Department have done along with existing staff and it's fair to say that a more honest group of hard working and caring individuals you'll do well to find. That's the truth.

But there are only so many meetings, so much work, and so many words that can replace tangible decisions that place the club on a sustainable path.

I speak only for myself and I'm posting this because you deserve communication, not silence, but I know the sentiments will be echoed by many of you who've supported this club for decades, along with staff, many who are caught up in the cost of living crisis and can ill afford to not be paid for their hard work.

I will discharge my promise to all of you that Southend United Football Club will be sustainable, competitive and discharge its responsibilities in good time.

But we are getting perilously close to the time when lines have to be drawn because good people with good intentions and abilities are being adversely affected. This must change immediately.

Stan.

time to pull the plug - administration need not affect the playing side.

get rid of RM - get rid of the debt

with a 5k supporters base this club will be fine ..

as soon as RM goes we can progress into a fan owned and highly successful club

 

[Scamps]

Can’t stand this anymore, just falling out of love with this club. There is no connection between the fans and the club like there use to be. Ron has destroyed all that. Think I’ll go back to watching wakering or canvey until Ron has left. Guess we won’t hear from Tom unless we start protesting again.! #martinout

 

[Texas Eslan]

Just a couple of things before the conspiracy theories start.

I didn't rejoin the club to be anyone's patsy, and everyone at the club knows that from the top down, so Benjamin would do well and so would everyone reading this, remember that I'm here to be a part of a positive change which ends with a club that is known for best practice, transparency, accountability and sustainability. All words I know, but everyone who's come in since 2021 and existing staff are working their tails off to move the club forward.

I tread a fine path between a promise to supporters of positive change from last year, a role within the club to influence change or leaving the club and having no influence to change anything.

I will not walk away from the supporters.

In the near year I've been at the club I've seen first hand the work Tom Lawrence, Football Department have done along with existing staff and it's fair to say that a more honest group of hard working and caring individuals you'll do well to find. That's the truth.

But there are only so many meetings, so much work, and so many words that can replace tangible decisions that place the club on a sustainable path.

I speak only for myself and I'm posting this because you deserve communication, not silence, but I know the sentiments will be echoed by many of you who've supported this club for decades, along with staff, many who are caught up in the cost of living crisis and can ill afford to not be paid for their hard work.

I will discharge my promise to all of you that Southend United Football Club will be sustainable, competitive and discharge its responsibilities in good time.

But we are getting perilously close to the time when lines have to be drawn because good people with good intentions and abilities are being adversely affected. This must change immediately.

Stan.

Good post Stan, really appreciate this sort of communication.

I believe Ben was making the point about yourself and Tom not to be derogatory towards what you are both doing, which I believe to be with the right intentions and good heart. What I believe he means though is that having good people such as yourselves then covers up all the bad that has happened over a number of years and softens supporters views towards him which, from this sort of action, is obviously not acceptable.

 

[BoyWonder2]

time to pull the plug - administration need not affect the playing side.

get rid of RM - get rid of the debt

with a 5k supporters base this club will be fine ..

as soon as RM goes we can progress into a fan owned and highly successful club

This is in no way a pro-RM post, however….

Having watched the majority of the Wrexham documentary, it’s mentioned by the fans, on numerous occasions, how the fan ownership didn’t work. Are there any successful fan owned clubs?

Don’t forget, how things currently work. Kev et all decide we need a striker (for example), and RM has to find the money from somewhere for his transfer fee, wages, relocation money, signing on fee, etc etc. That money still needs to be found whether we are under a new person, a fan owned Club, or Hollywood.

We have a 5k supporter base now, and we aren’t fine. How does that change when RM is gone and we are fan owned?

This cannot continue under RM’s leadership, we will never reach our full potential under RM again, but I genuinely believe he will be gone once FF is complete/almost complete.

As I’ve said, on numerous occasions, I stay out of the financial stuff, so wouldn’t be able to say, with ITK knowledge, how much a player earns for example, and I stay out of all non-playing staff, which is what this issue is. Once again, the management team/playing staff are all up-to-date, but that isn’t what the problem appears to be.

Finally, any dig at TL in this situation is frankly laughable. I dread to think where we would be as a football Club without TL.

 

[happydays]

Please no protests during games as that distracts the players all protests should be made before and after final whistle

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Paid late once can be considered an honest error, an oversight.

Late twice (or more in this clubs case) is inexcusable.

The National League won't take too kindly to it either.

Good on the staff for taking a stand and I am sure all of us back them 100%. I hope they continue to take this stance whilst the problems remain. Hopefully it is resolved soon for them. I can't imagine going one day without my pay cheque, let alone three weeks.

We all await the pearls of wisdom and the corner flag image later. Eyes down for Ronnie Bingo....

"Temporary oversight. Small number of staff. Will be resolved immediately. Should of been picked up by a Senior member of staff"

"The club has and always will be supported fully by it's group companies, as demonstrated by the support given to Kevin in the recruitment of top players like Kacper"

"Stadium progressing well. This club has a fantastic future to come"

"I am the saviour. If I walked tomorrow the club would go bust. There are no offers to buy the club and even if there were, I wouldn't sell. The project will be seen through to its completion by me"

The irony is, he has been coming to games recently thinking the dust had settled against him. Then this happens.

He will always have an excuse ready. Bankers economic crisis, COVID, energy crisis, hair salon bills etc. He will always sugarcoat it with promises of stadia improvement. It doesn't help the here and now. You cannot play with peoples lives like this. It's been on countless occasions and this simply cannot happen. There is zero point Stan and co trying to rebuild a club with a good reputation if Ron isn't going to his statutory duties. He needs to sort it asap!

 

[Smiffy]

This is in no way a pro-RM post, however….

Having watched the majority of the Wrexham documentary, it’s mentioned by the fans, on numerous occasions, how the fan ownership didn’t work. Are there any successful fan owned clubs?

Don’t forget, how things currently work. Kev et all decide we need a striker (for example), and RM has to find the money from somewhere for his transfer fee, wages, relocation money, signing on fee, etc etc. That money still needs to be found whether we are under a new person, a fan owned Club, or Hollywood.

We have a 5k supporter base now, and we aren’t fine. How does that change when RM is gone and we are fan owned?

This cannot continue under RM’s leadership, we will never reach our full potential under RM again, but I genuinely believe he will be gone once FF is complete/almost complete.

I agree. But I don't think we can survive as we are until FF is complete/near complete.

Change at the top is needed now. It will give the whole place a lift and finally the club and it's people will flourish.

An agreement needs to be reached somehow for new owners to come in ASAP and take full control of the club, whilst Ron obviously needs to maintain a large share of his property empire (I don't think any of us really begrudge that)

A tricky but doable transaction if all parties have good intentions, are reasonable and are willing to get round a table to thrash something out for the good of our club.

Maintaining the status quo is not an option. Batting away offers is not an option. Tick tock.....

 

[Rayleigh boy]

This is in no way a pro-RM post, however….

Having watched the majority of the Wrexham documentary, it’s mentioned by the fans, on numerous occasions, how the fan ownership didn’t work. Are there any successful fan owned clubs?

Don’t forget, how things currently work. Kev et all decide we need a striker (for example), and RM has to find the money from somewhere for his transfer fee, wages, relocation money, signing on fee, etc etc. That money still needs to be found whether we are under a new person, a fan owned Club, or Hollywood.

We have a 5k supporter base now, and we aren’t fine. How does that change when RM is gone and we are fan owned?

This cannot continue under RM’s leadership, we will never reach our full potential under RM again, but I genuinely believe he will be gone once FF is complete/almost complete.

the biggest thing is losing the debts(s)

also getting a management with a focus on progressing the football club (not doing a property business) and getting control of all the incoming revenues.... wheres the money gone .. Dalby, Kelman, Bishop,,

If the fans via a legally constituted organisation created a 2.5million fund
(5000 fans @GBP 500 a vote) they could get control of the club and all incoming revenues and make the blooming thing work ..

when or if mr big or sheik blah blah turns up you can vote to sell ..

there is a lot of ifs and buts - Roots Hall/FF etc etc but the council, the FA, Vanarama, the footballing community, the politicians - would all prefer to see a fan led club emerge.

maybe nothing will happen until the situation really explodes - but administration could be a good thing ...

I guess its time for a lot of supporters to reflect on how much time and effort they are really prepared to give if it all comes down to it ..

 

[Target man]

The irony is, he has been coming to games recently thinking the dust had settled against him. Then this happens.

He will always have an excuse ready. Bankers economic crisis, COVID, energy crisis, hair salon bills etc. He will always sugarcoat it with promises of stadia improvement. It doesn't help the here and now. You cannot play with peoples lives like this. It's been on countless occasions and this simply cannot happen. There is zero point Stan and co trying to rebuild a club with a good reputation if Ron isn't going to his statutory duties. He needs to sort it asap!

I think we all know the arrogant excuse of a man is only interested in one thing. His FF property nest egg ... until that is concluded, the staff wages, or anything else, will be low on his priority. He is not going to sell the Club until such time, so unfortunately these issues will continue. The main concern is the likes of Tom, a genuine hard working guy who does an incredible job to steady and progress the club, will finally walk. He deserves more credit than he gets and is too easily thrown under the bus by Ron, who is taking the p##s with good people. Trouble is, Ron sees everyone as dispensable because of narcissistic self ....