University Fees

[Berrichonne shrimper]

There's a broad generalisation to start the day. Oxford & Cambridge, poor, full of idiots....oh...

Sorry ive read my post 6 times and still can not find the part where i say that oxbridge students are stupid,i did however say that if you are oh so very very poor(as in lacking in funds)that unis are free,as it is for my daughter(from a poor family)mish miller will you let him go.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Sorry ive read my post 6 times and still can not find the part where i say that oxbridge students are stupid,i did however say that if you are oh so very very poor(as in lacking in funds)that unis are free,as it is for my daughter(from a poor family)mish miller will you let him go.

Sorry Tony, my mistake, it was early! Mea Culpa!!!

 

[pringlejon]

the majority of people at my uni are from priveliged backgrounds and have been private schooled before uni and now mummy and daddy are paying for them to live at uni. it annoys me when i have to get loans for absolutely everything and can barely afford to go out once a week. Uni is about having a good time and learning to live independantly as well as getting an enhanced education which will hopefully attract future employers.

the government recently changed the system of student loans and tuition fees the year i started, which meant i went from having to pay £0 out of £1500 (or something around that figure) to £3200 of £3400 (ish). It was only 3 years ago uni was relatively cheap, but now people like me are going to graduate with nearing £30k of debt once living is taken into account, of which my parents cant help support me. it's as if they are trying to make a class gap, stopping intelligent people from a poor background going to uni. Yes they offer loans and grants, but there are so many stipulations you must satisfy to not have to pay a penny.
for instance, for divorced parent families, before the change of rules they took into account the parent you're living with's income, which would've got me a free ride at uni.
now they take into account the parent you are living with and their partners income. So if your parent has a partner, if they are living in the same house, you suddenly lose all government help (bar 100 quid or so), but if they live next door then you dont have to pay (as long as parents income is low). it's ridiculous.

and rules like that, brought in so they have to pay out as little as possible will mean a lot more debt is going to be incurred. and i was nearly put off by the thought of £30k debt, let alone £40k or so that these new grads will have.

i think it's a brilliant experience at uni and would definately do it again, but i don't understand how some people will let their parents buy their way through a pointless degree in david beckham (yes there is one) and not even work for it! some people don't appreciate what they're given.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Without getting into a 'kids today' kind of rant, I've been hearing a lot of this recently and not just in journalism. Maybe it's the fault of fifteen years of relative prosperity? As a 31 year old, I was a Thatcher kid. All you'd hear about on the news was unemployment. Maybe it just hasn't been an issue for a while?

That said, it should make it easier for people like East Stand Blue who actually seem to work their nads off. Assuming you can elbow the detritus out of the way, exasperated employers should be quick to spot any actual talent.

Well, that's me just a little bit flattered... Especially considering I spent my first 2 years in a relative stupor :whistling:

I certainly hope that's the case... Fortunately i'm working towards a 2:1, which should see me in the top half of my graduate class. Unfortunately that top half of my class equals to about 25 students from this course alone. There are 3 other Sports Journalism specific courses in the country, each with similar levels of intake, let alone the countless basic Journalism courses on offer up and down the UK.

Apparently, this is the worst year to graduate in since in 30 odd years... Which you can imagine fills me with excitement and joy. What you'll see in the journalism industry though is, if times get tougher, media outlets will opt for freelancers to fill their column inches instead of regular staff in an attempt to save costs... And in a sports specific area which is filled with ex-Professionals, it'll be tough to find a full time position I think.

 

[SARF]

If i was employing a journalist,I reckon I would hire one with a degree in history.. Or someone who had worked around the world, .. Certainly not one who had spent their formative years studying journalism! .. Most half rich kids get packed off to uni cos their parents want shot of them and cant face having them press ganged into the Navy any more..

 

[EastStandBlue]

If i was employing a journalist,I reckon I would hire one with a degree in history.. Or someone who had worked around the world, .. Certainly not one who had spent their formative years studying journalism! .. Most half rich kids get packed off to uni cos their parents want shot of them and cant face having them press ganged into the Navy any more..

So, you'd hire someone with no working knowledge of the industry, someone who's likely to only be able to write in a descriptive manner with no knowledge of standard journalistic form or law, so in that manner is likely to print something slanderous or open to libel...

Instead of a journalism graduate who will have an understanding of the appropriate style of writing, with experience of both writing and editing and knowledge of the law, so as not to be left open for lawsuits?

Right.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

the majority of people at my uni are from priveliged backgrounds and have been private schooled before uni and now mummy and daddy are paying for them to live at uni. it annoys me when i have to get loans for absolutely everything and can barely afford to go out once a week. Uni is about having a good time and learning to live independantly as well as getting an enhanced education which will hopefully attract future employers.

the government recently changed the system of student loans and tuition fees the year i started, which meant i went from having to pay £0 out of £1500 (or something around that figure) to £3200 of £3400 (ish). It was only 3 years ago uni was relatively cheap, but now people like me are going to graduate with nearing £30k of debt once living is taken into account, of which my parents cant help support me. it's as if they are trying to make a class gap, stopping intelligent people from a poor background going to uni. Yes they offer loans and grants, but there are so many stipulations you must satisfy to not have to pay a penny.
for instance, for divorced parent families, before the change of rules they took into account the parent you're living with's income, which would've got me a free ride at uni.
now they take into account the parent you are living with and their partners income. So if your parent has a partner, if they are living in the same house, you suddenly lose all government help (bar 100 quid or so), but if they live next door then you dont have to pay (as long as parents income is low). it's ridiculous.

and rules like that, brought in so they have to pay out as little as possible will mean a lot more debt is going to be incurred. and i was nearly put off by the thought of £30k debt, let alone £40k or so that these new grads will have.

i think it's a brilliant experience at uni and would definately do it again, but i don't understand how some people will let their parents buy their way through a pointless degree in david beckham (yes there is one) and not even work for it! some people don't appreciate what they're given.

Good post PJ,the single parent blah blah bit is why my(step)daugghter attends Downing college cambridge for free and gets 3 grand+ a term also.

 

[A Century United]

So, you'd hire someone with no working knowledge of the industry, someone who's likely to only be able to write in a descriptive manner with no knowledge of standard journalistic form or law, so in that manner is likely to print something slanderous or open to libel...

Instead of a journalism graduate who will have an understanding of the appropriate style of writing, with experience of both writing and editing and knowledge of the law, so as not to be left open for lawsuits?

Right.

I'd look for a 16 year old school leaver, and take him on as an apprentice, training him on the job.

:report:

 

[Mad Cyril]

I'd hire one who had super powers like Peter Parker or Clark Kent. They always seem to come up with better material than your average little echoes shed theft/fire crap.

 

[SARF]

So, you'd hire someone with no working knowledge of the industry, someone who's likely to only be able to write in a descriptive manner with no knowledge of standard journalistic form or law, so in that manner is likely to print something slanderous or open to libel...

Instead of a journalism graduate who will have an understanding of the appropriate style of writing, with experience of both writing and editing and knowledge of the law, so as not to be left open for lawsuits?

Right.

Yup.. I'd sooner train my own staff ..People with a bit of a spark....or who have something new to offer.. A different outlook on life.. not some Uni automon ..

 

[EastStandBlue]

Yup.. I'd sooner train my own staff ..People with a bit of a spark....or who have something new to offer.. A different outlook on life.. not some Uni automon ..

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think?

 

[Slipperduke]

It's an interesting debate that. There is a lot to be said about hiring someone with a breadth of knowledge on history. It shows a willingness to research, learn and then regurgitate information, which is fairly integral to the whole business. It also provides something different to the workforce and might even make you stand out a bit.

However, these days the specialised degrees are becoming more relevant. As ESB will know all too well, there aren't that many specialised writers being taken on now. Most graduate trainees will need to do anything from sub-editing other articles (legal), designing websites or pages (design/html) to filming press conferences themselves (broadcasting) or providing their own audio reports. There are a lot of specialists on 30-40k being wiped out and gradually replaced with multi-tasking rookies prepared to work their nads off for 20k.

Ultimately, it's a policy that will lead to a watering down of talent and expertise, replacing it with an industry of 'jack-of-all-trades', though the hope is that the real stars will come through the melee and emerge as specialists in their own right. It all depends on how much money is available. It's not much of a future, but significantly better than having all media wiped out in favour of unreliable, unbalanced blogs and websites.

So, in short, you're both right. For different reasons. I think...

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'd say you're right Slip... Over the past 2 years, I've been taught to write succintly and efficiently, sub-edit, record and transcribe shorthand, interview techniques and the in's and outs of broadcast media, producing audio podcasts as well as short video newscasts fit for publication. All this aimed at making us as useful as we can possibly be, and therefor as employable as we can possibly be.

In terms of the History debate and the ability to conduct research, not only is our dissertation research geared, we have modules specifically focusing on research methods and techniques, which as you rightly say is integral to journalism.

Some people may have blinkered views on Journalism courses as a whole, as they're fairly new to the University scene and not in your typical batch of English, Maths or Science subjects... Thankfully, however, the industry is a little more open to graduates these days as they've shown, on a wide scale, that they're more than up to the task.

 

[BalmainShrimper]

I think the current funding for students and degrees is disgraceful. When I graduated in 1994 I think I had about 2k of debt in student loans. Admittedly I worked during the holidays but I still managed to eat, drink (quite a bit), run a car, have a few foreign holidays and generally have a good time as a student. I did get a grant and my parents dipped in occasionally. I definitely wasn't one of the "rich kids", my parents both worked for the NHS, but to be honest I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wants to support their child at Uni, rich or not.

The facts seem to be that:

1. Going to uni is going to cost you a lot of money and leave you in debt
2. Many of the degree courses lack credibility
3. As always, the cream will rise to the top - go to a good uni, study something you're passionate about, do some extra curricular stuff to broaden your horizons and you should do OK in front of a potential employer.

My concern is the BSc in Beckham crowd who get a desmond, have 20k debt, can't get a job and have just wasted 3 years, become a further burden on the tax-payer

 

[M@CC@ 16]

I'd look for a 16 year old school leaver, and take him on as an apprentice, training him on the job.

:report:

guessing you didn't get into uni, bless.

thats wat i said on my gap year before i could be arsed to go to uni, its all about who you are, not the grades you have.

then i realised i was an 18 year old muppet, you not 18 but..... ;)

 

[steveo]

guessing you didn't get into uni, bless.

thats wat i said on my gap year before i could be arsed to go to uni, its all about who you are, not the grades you have.

then i realised i was an 18 year old muppet, you not 18 but..... ;)

Perhaps they might teach you how to write things without sounding like an obnoxious little ****.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

guessing you didn't get into uni, bless.

thats wat i said on my gap year before i could be arsed to go to uni, its all about who you are, not the grades you have.

then i realised i was an 18 year old muppet, you not 18 but..... ;)

How's your English Literature degree going so far? :dizzy:

 

[A Century United]

guessing you didn't get into uni, bless.

thats wat i said on my gap year before i could be arsed to go to uni, its all about who you are, not the grades you have.

then i realised i was an 18 year old muppet, you not 18 but..... ;)

I wasn't talking about myself, I was sort of fishing... A boy from my class at WHSB left at 16 and went to the Echo as a Trainee. He worked his way up, and now Neil Harman is Chief Tennis Correspondent for The Times.

Clearly, he is the big exception, not the rule, and I wouldn't seriously reccomend that route over a specialised Degree course but it shows that there are all sorts of ways to get into the Media industry.

 

[steveo]

He worked his way up, and now Neil Harman is Chief Tennis Correspondent for The Times.
.

And he managed all this without spending 2 years at Portsmouth Uni? Unbelievable.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I had a letter about the Owl man published in the Echo.

It's nice to know I might have a second career in journalism to fall back on if the bottom falls out of the financial software sector.