Alleged Racism at Woking game

[WhiteNoise]

A lot of white people on here not understanding how this a) could be a racist comment, or b) could be taken as a racist comment.

Weird that

 

[mattytheshrimper]

With all due respect, I don't think it is the place of white people to proclaim what is or isn't racist.

How do you know the posters are all white?

 

[Shrimper]

A lot of white people on here not understanding how this a) could be a racist comment, or b) could be taken as a racist comment.

Weird that

I think a lot of people are well aware of the connotations.

But if it hasn't been used with the intention of singling out individuals based on their background then it isn't racist.

 

[basilrobbie]

That’s not a racist remark for Christ sake

Tell me you are kidding. If that is what you really think you have a bit of a problem.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

What if one fans meant “Get back in your cage” at players who caused trouble at end of the game, acting like an animals?

 

[Beefy]

In 43 years on this planet I've never once heard a single person use the phrase "get back in your cage". In your box, absolutely, but cage has pretty ****ing clear racial connotations.

Maybe the guy didn't mean it that way and that's for the authorities to decide but its a dreadful look for SUFC, especially if someone has got physical with a player too.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

With all due respect, I don't think it is the place of white people to proclaim what is or isn't racist. (These forums being anonymous, which for the most part a good thing, means it is hard to know whether that is going on here, but I would take a very good guess that it is.)

That is not to say that intent is not relevant, and I am sure the police will take that into consideration as part of their investigation, but regardless of whether it was 'meant to be racist' the fact of the matter is that a number of black players and officials who were within earshot immediately took it to be a racially charged sentiment, as did others. If we are to rid football of discrimination, as hopefully we are all committed to, then it is their experience we have to understand, not ours.

Some have said this 'isn't a racist phrase, because white people use it against white people'. But this isn't how it works: words mean different things to different people, and in different contexts. A phrase that is fine to use against a white person can have a different connotation when used against a black person, and unless you're really determined to close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears, it's not hard to see how that can be true here. This country has a history going back centuries of putting black people in cages. Racism still endures. A black player hearing a white person angrily shouting at them, in a noisy environment, about being put in a cage is going to hear it in that context. A white player having it said about them obviously wouldn't.

Everyone will have their opinions, and for now it's down to the police. But my mother taught me to put myself in the other person's shoes before opening my mouth, and perhaps we'd be in a better place if everyone did.

I can see why it could be conceived as racist but until this incident that had never occurred to me that such a phrase would be conceived as racist. So I think it’s likely whoever said it didn’t mean it that way and it’s a misunderstanding from people coming from two very different perspectives.

Probably the best outcome is that we all become more attuned to other’s perspectives. I hope this is the focus and getting people to learn from it rather than about punishment.

 

[Kat_r]

I don’t see how there could be any malicious intent based upon the comment that was made.

Sounds like the guy tried to say they were behaving like animals and I can’t say he was wrong if that’s his intent.

As someone said earlier in the thread this type of stuff is straight out the playbook of ****house teams like Woking. Therefore I take their allegations with a pinch of salt.

Great to see that many are assuming guilty until proven innocent (including Woking FC) as we often do nowadays with these kinds of allegations.

Wasn’t there so can’t say. But you should be able to express your opinion without fear of being told off on here...

 

[Supershrimper]

You might be alluding to a different incident.

The alleged racism was by someone in the reds. An old boy in his 70's with bobble hat and scarf. Im told by a member of staff he looked totally bewildered as he was arrested and led to a police room etc.

I know a lot happened in those last few minutes but don't get your East Green Ultras muddled with Red Racists.

I take great offence to that.

My seat hasn't been red since it was installed and due to the bleaching from the sun is now closer to the colour Raspberry Bellini from the Dulux colour chart.

Red Racists indeed!!

 

[North Banker]

How do you know the posters are all white?

I didn't say that. And as I said in the next sentence, I don't have an idea of anyone's ethnicity (other than the few posters in this thread who have identified or alluded to theirs - of which, all are white as far as I can tell - and those who are public figures such as Stan).

My point is that in general, this thread almost certainly contains some people who are white making judgements about perceptions of racism. If you like, we can have a long conversation about the demographics of Essex, but I think we can skip that part and conclude that it's pretty likely that any given SZ thread is predominantly white!

 

[WhiteNoise]

I can see why it could be conceived as racist but until this incident that had never occurred to me that such a phrase would be conceived as racist. So I think it’s likely whoever said it didn’t mean it that way and it’s a misunderstanding from people coming from two very different perspectives.

Probably the best outcome is that we all become more attuned to other’s perspectives. I hope this is the focus and getting people to learn from it rather than about punishment.

it's yet another example of a dehumanising micro-aggression that people of colour are on the receiving end of, a lot. It might not be enough to have clear intent or likelihood of causing offense (which is the legal threshold, based on my understanding) but that doesn't mean that it's an appropriate comment to be shouting at a black person and many on here being surprised that someone has taken offense to this shows how far we still have to go.

 

[Beefy]

'Get back in your box' has about a million Google hits giving me all sorts of pages telling me usages of it in popular culture and its etymology as a phrase.

'Get back in your cage' does not.

The guy may not have meant it in a racist way, and maybe in the moment it just completely came out wrong and he said the wrong word but let's not gaslight each other by pretending that's a regular everyday thing that white people say, or ever have said, to each other.

 

[North Banker]

I can see why it could be conceived as racist but until this incident that had never occurred to me that such a phrase would be conceived as racist. So I think it’s likely whoever said it didn’t mean it that way and it’s a misunderstanding from people coming from two very different perspectives.

Probably the best outcome is that we all become more attuned to other’s perspectives. I hope this is the focus and getting people to learn from it rather than about punishment.

Absolutely. It's not the ideal learning experience, but hopefully they will come out of it more conscious of the meaning of their words, as indeed will many other fans, and that will be that.

If you live, work and grew up around people who all look like you, these sorts of things don't occur to you. Diversity makes us richer people.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I think a lot of people are well aware of the connotations.

But if it hasn't been used with the intention of singling out individuals based on their background then it isn't racist.

that isn't true. you don't have to prove intent for something to be judged as racial harassment or abuse - if it's likely to cause offense then that is sufficient, in a legal sense.

I also think it's very common and very easy to make racial comments or microaggressions without any overt intent, and it's important people recognise that and call it out.

 

[Dutch Branch]

You might be alluding to a different incident.

The alleged racism was by someone in the reds. An old boy in his 70's with bobble hat and scarf. Im told by a member of staff he looked totally bewildered as he was arrested and led to a police room etc.

I know a lot happened in those last few minutes but don't get your East Green Ultras muddled with Red Racists.

Ar right . So the East Green ultra is accused of the trying to get on the pitch.

70’s lol. Storm in a tea cup. Reading the reports on BBC you’d think a massive racist act took place

 

[Kat_r]

Please explain the connotation here? Have you asked the gentleman who said it if there was any racist intent?

Good point.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

'Get back in your box' has about a million Google hits giving me all sorts of pages telling me usages of it in popular culture and its etymology as a phrase.

'Get back in your cage' does not.

The guy may not have meant it in a racist way, and maybe in the moment it just completely came out wrong and he said the wrong word but let's not gaslight each other by pretending that's a regular everyday thing that white people say, or ever have said, to each other.

I assumed it’s a combination of get back in your box and who rattled your cage. Both are common phrases which I hadn’t associated as problematic.

 

[OrangeyBrown]

Regardless of intent, shouting something like that towards a black player is as best incredibly stupid, as the potential connotations are clear and obvious.

It's impossible for us to know the fan's intent, but I can certainly see why a player can take offense to that and I think even if you didn't intend for it to be taken that way, it's obviously easy to take it that way and it should never have been said regardless.

 

[Oakley1]

I do find this a little strange

If it was a racist comment then let the Police and officials deal with it, if its proved it wasn't then fine lets get on with life

but the one thing that I find interesting from this forum is nobody condoned the abuse thrown from our supporters towards the Wrexham fans a couple of weeks ago, not one person said anything about the chants aimed at them regarding their sexual preferences, yet this incident last night provokes an outcry rightly or wrongly, its being discussed as it should on a forum

 

[StanCollymore]

I asked the Police last night how the process works when deciding on a caution or arrest or no action when words said aren't "open and shut " (the difference between calling someone a black xxxx which has no ambiguity compared to get back in your cage which, as outlined by many above could have racial motivation or none whatsoever).

The answer was straightforward and a lesson for us all.

"If a victim believes there was racial motivation then we as Police will act. The victim decides and we escalate from there".