Question 9/11

[Massimo Giovanni]

For me the answer is simple; it was not an "inside job" however it was a monumental foul up and more by NSA, FBI, CIA and all to such an extent that the ****e trail went all the way to the top and has been covered up in a poor, disjointed and unconvincing way which has spawned the conspiracy theory.
There was/is a conspiracy;- in the cover up of the foul up but not in the murderous deeds.
How long is taking for the Hillsborough tragedy to be seen for what it was; again not in the deaths but in the foul up and cover up'?
And in the USA freedom of speech and investigative journalism is dodo dead because of control by the rich, powerful and political to a greater extent than it is in the UK.

 

[GBJ]

For me the answer is simple; it was not an "inside job" however it was a monumental foul up and more by NSA, FBI, CIA and all to such an extent that the ****e trail went all the way to the top and has been covered up in a poor, disjointed and unconvincing way which has spawned the conspiracy theory.
There was/is a conspiracy;- in the cover up of the foul up but not in the murderous deeds.
How long is taking for the Hillsborough tragedy to be seen for what it was; again not in the deaths but in the foul up and cover up'?
And in the USA freedom of speech and investigative journalism is dodo dead because of control by the rich, powerful and political to a greater extent than it is in the UK.

This could have more legs than any other theory put forward tbh.

It’s widely accepted that the American hierarchy had foreknowledge of a possible attack. In the months leading upto September 11th, they were warned on numerous occasions from intelligence services all round the world, that Al-Qaeda had bad intentions & were in the latter stages of carrying out an plot. Some of those warnings actually foretold the use of aircraft.

Mohammed Atta was definitely on the CIA’s radar, as he was a major target in the Able Danger programme, along with 3 other 9/11 hijackers.

The million dollar question is, was this information ignored & lack of action taken, due to incompetence, or due to malicious intent? And can it be proven either way?

I could well believe a cover-up of incompetence, like you alluded to. But I could also believe that The American hierarchy allowed it to happen.

 

[rigsby]

For me the answer is simple; it was not an "inside job" however it was a monumental foul up and more by NSA, FBI, CIA and all to such an extent that the ****e trail went all the way to the top and has been covered up in a poor, disjointed and unconvincing way which has spawned the conspiracy theory.
There was/is a conspiracy;- in the cover up of the foul up but not in the murderous deeds.
How long is taking for the Hillsborough tragedy to be seen for what it was; again not in the deaths but in the foul up and cover up'?
And in the USA freedom of speech and investigative journalism is dodo dead because of control by the rich, powerful and political to a greater extent than it is in the UK.

You are correct for the last paragraph. Its not just the media but to question it as a politician or even university academics it means ruin. So why are people so scared of answering questions?

How did the laws of physics have a day off on 9/11?
Are the scientists who have found Nano Thermite in the dust lying?
The 120 firefighters who heard several explosions in the Towers? There is recordings on the net.
The one question we can all answer is it would not be possible to have used mobile phones at more than 10,000ft under any circumstances on 9/11/2001.

 

[KevinJH]

Inside job ? I couldn't possibly say but am now of the opinion that certain quarters within the U.S. Government/Security Services were probably about aware of it as they were of the attack on Pearl Harbor. That, of course, is for another thread but what terrible consequences resulted from each....

 

[maninasuitcase]

The trouble with these conspiracy theorists is that they post so much information, misinformation, and questions but no actual real evidence. It would days to sift through their claims to disprove or approve them and I haven't got the time for that.

The stuff about the pilot is a case in point. How would they really know how someone would react in a given situation? It seems that the theorists know exactly how someone should react despite not being in that situation themselves.

 

[rigsby]

The trouble with these conspiracy theorists is that they post so much information, misinformation, and questions but no actual real evidence. It would days to sift through their claims to disprove or approve them and I haven't got the time for that.

The stuff about the pilot is a case in point. How would they really know how someone would react in a given situation? It seems that the theorists know exactly how someone should react despite not being in that situation themselves.

Let’s start you with an easy one. Look up Norman Mineta. He was sitting next to Dick Chaney on the morning of 9/11 in their safe underground bunker. He says they had several warnings about flight 77 long before it hit the Pentagon. Dick Chaney had changed the rules 2 months earlier so that only he could order a plane to be shot down. Even though the Towers had been hit he refused to give the order for flight 77. Mineta testified at the joke of an inquiry called the 9/11 commission. The fact that you have never heard of him shows how controlled the Media is.

When April Gallop who worked in the Pentagon and was lucky to survive. Found this out, she tried to sue the US government as she had been told to take baby to the office that morning rather than the day care centre. She was even visited in Hospital and threats were made.

Not only was the case thrown out immediately she was fined £15,000 dollars for having the cheek to bring such a case......The judge was the cousin of GW Bush.

But hey nothing to see here and any way if the US government was up to something people would speak up....right

 

[maninasuitcase]

I am

Let’s start you with an easy one. Look up Norman Mineta. He was sitting next to Dick Chaney on the morning of 9/11 in their safe underground bunker. He says they had several warnings about flight 77 long before it hit the Pentagon. Dick Chaney had changed the rules 2 months earlier so that only he could order a plane to be shot down. Even though the Towers had been hit he refused to give the order for flight 77. Mineta testified at the joke of an inquiry called the 9/11 commission. The fact that you have never heard of him shows how controlled the Media is.

When April Gallop who worked in the Pentagon and was lucky to survive. Found this out, she tried to sue the US government as she had been told to take baby to the office that morning rather than the day care centre. She was even visited in Hospital and threats were made.

Not only was the case thrown out immediately she was fined £15,000 dollars for having the cheek to bring such a case......The judge was the cousin of GW Bush.

But hey nothing to see here and any way if the US government was up to something people would speak up....right

Exactly what I mean. Why should I do any leg work. It is for you to prove it to me. When you say 'Joke' of an enquiry, were you there or have read you a transcript of it. Perhaps you could post up for us all to read.

 

[GBJ]

When you say 'Joke' of an enquiry, were you there or have read you a transcript of it. Perhaps you could post up for us all to read.

None of us were there. Thomas Kean was though. So too, Lee Hamilton. The men who wrote a book called “Without Precedent”. In it they claim that the 9/11 Commission were “set up to fail”, were “starved of funds”, and were consistenly deceived & misled by senior Pentagon officials, aswell as the Federal Aviation Authority, to the point they wanted to slap the officials with criminal charges.

These men were not crackpot conspiracy theorists. Thomas Kean was chairman of the 9/11 Commission. Hamilton was Vice-Chair.

Sometimes, it’s worth doing a little bit of legwork.

 

[rigsby]

Sadly some people are afraid of legwork because they suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

The commission was only set up after pressure from "Jersey girls" who were a group of 9/11 widows. The Bush administration didn't think it was worth investigating as they knew who did it.

The first budget was just $5m.....Less than £2,000 per victim. Even after pressure it was only raised to £15m and completely left out building 7......Yet they spent $1.1 trillion on the Iraq war alone...…None of the alleged terrorists were from Iraq because under Saddam it was the last place anyone would set up a Jihad.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Perhaps some of you should listen to the telephone conversations of people on the flights were having with loved ones knowing they were about to die or consider what was going through the minds of folk jumping to their deaths rather than burn to death by aviation fuel. I haven’t listened to those tapes but I work with people who have.
Some on here accuse others of believing anything the state say but are happy to swallow any old pony on utube. Unf-ingbelievable frankly.

 

[rigsby]

Perhaps some of you should listen to the telephone conversations of people on the flights were having with loved ones knowing they were about to die or consider what was going through the minds of folk jumping to their deaths rather than burn to death by aviation fuel. I haven’t listened to those tapes but I work with people who have.
Some on here accuse others of believing anything the state say but are happy to swallow any old pony on utube. Unf-ingbelievable frankly.

Of course people made calls from the Towers. The public aren't allowed to here the last 3 minutes of the NYFD radio messages

What of course is nonsense is claiming calls were made from 29,000ft in an aeroplane in 2001. Maybe you should listen to some of those calls. Former flight attendant Rebekah Roth has wrote a very interesting book on the subject

 

[GBJ]

Perhaps some of you should listen to the telephone conversations of people on the flights were having with loved ones knowing they were about to die or consider what was going through the minds of folk jumping to their deaths rather than burn to death by aviation fuel. I haven’t listened to those tapes but I work with people who have.
Some on here accuse others of believing anything the state say but are happy to swallow any old pony on utube. Unf-ingbelievable frankly.

I have. They’re harrowing tbh. Kevin Cosgroves call will always stick in my head.

And as for the bit i’ve highlighted, I’d agree with you, that some of the nonsense professed on YouTube is quite frankly, dispicable & insulting towards general common sense.

The trouble is, you can’t allow these crackpots & their ridiculous theories to divert away from an actual discussion, when it is needed. On the basis of what the Commission Chairman & Vice Chairman said, this topic is most certainly worthy of such a discussion, even if it means you’ve got to wade through the blatant crap on YouTube. And I don’t just mean it’s worthy of discussion on ShrimperZone, I mean on a global scale. The victims deserve more.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I think the planes came a bit lower to do the crshing stuff, certainly a lot less lower than 29000ft.

 

[rigsby]

I think the planes came a bit lower to do the crshing stuff, certainly a lot less lower than 29000ft.

Indeed they did. You can look at the official flight paths and what heights they were flying at. According to the official story and the timings they would have made calls at impossible heights.

Betty Ong the attendant on flight 11 was recorded by her reservations desk for 29 minutes....we are only allowed to hear 4 minutes of that recording. As I say look up Rebekah Roth.

Interestingly on flight 11, the first plane to crash, was also the alleged leader Mohamed Atta. The story has changed a few times but one of the hi-hackers had sat in seat 9b with two of his accomplices either side of him. Remarkably on a half empty plane an Israeli sitting in 10b was a hostage rescue expert. His name was Sayeret Matkal and spoke fluent Arabic. he was trained to kill a man with just a pen or even a credit card....just a coincidence I guess.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Remarkably on a half empty plane an Israeli sitting in 10b was a hostage rescue expert. His name was Sayeret Matkal and spoke fluent Arabic. he was trained to kill a man with just a pen or even a credit card....just a coincidence I guess.

What is your implication there, rigsby? I think it's a bit too subtle for me.

 

[maninasuitcase]

Indeed they did. You can look at the official flight paths and what heights they were flying at. According to the official story and the timings they would have made calls at impossible heights.

Betty Ong the attendant on flight 11 was recorded by her reservations desk for 29 minutes....we are only allowed to hear 4 minutes of that recording. As I say look up Rebekah Roth.

Interestingly on flight 11, the first plane to crash, was also the alleged leader Mohamed Atta. The story has changed a few times but one of the hi-hackers had sat in seat 9b with two of his accomplices either side of him. Remarkably on a half empty plane an Israeli sitting in 10b was a hostage rescue expert. His name was Sayeret Matkal and spoke fluent Arabic. he was trained to kill a man with just a pen or even a credit card....just a coincidence I guess.

See, this is where it all falls on just the minimum of googling. Sayeret Matkal is the name of an Israeli army unit, not a person.

 

[Benfleet A1]

And just like the planes the theories crash and burn.

 

[GBJ]

No

See, this is where it all falls on just the minimum of googling. Sayeret Matkal is the name of an Israeli army unit, not a person.

No opinion on the facts I presented, that you asked for? I.e. The 9/11 commission being prevented from investigating properly. More wild conspiracy I assume?

 

[rigsby]

See, this is where it all falls on just the minimum of googling. Sayeret Matkal is the name of an Israeli army unit, not a person.

Good I’m glad your paying attention and actually doing some research.

Did you know that whilst one of their agents was sitting directly behind one of the hi-jackers, a former commander of Sayers Matkal...none other than Ehud Barak. Just happened to be in the BBC studio in London. For some reason he knew exactly who was responsible and called for the west to unite and wage war on certain regimes.....You can see the interview on youtube....but I guess it’s just another one of those strange coincidences that happened on 9/11

 

[maninasuitcase]

No


No opinion on the facts I presented, that you asked for? I.e. The 9/11 commission being prevented from investigating properly. More wild conspiracy I assume?

I googled one name offered by Rigsby as being on one of the hijacked planes, a Mr Sayers Matkal who apparently was fluent in Arabic and he could kill a man with a pen or credit card (that is what Rigsby said). I am not sure what the point Rigsby was trying to make, but it turns out, and it took me about 30 seconds to find this out, that this 'man' does not exist and was made up.

Why should I bother with people that just make stuff up?

I have yet to see you post up any facts, just opinions masquerading as facts.