Alleged Racism at Woking game

[rigsby]

I asked the Police last night how the process works when deciding on a caution or arrest or no action when words said aren't "open and shut " (the difference between calling someone a black xxxx which has no ambiguity compared to get back in your cage which, as outlined by many above could have racial motivation or none whatsoever).

The answer was straightforward and a lesson for us all.

"If a victim believes there was racial motivation then we as Police will act. The victim decides and we escalate from there".

There is more than one lesson to be learnt. "We escalate from there"

If anyone watched a few police auditing vlogs its very clear that modern policing is very much about escalating the most minor of interactions and comments.

Just a few years ago Trevor Phillips the TV presenter and head of Commission for Racial Equality said there has to be intent. The police could have made him face the player and explain himself and it all be sorted. Instead we have a circus and a waste of money. 27 hour wait for a bed down the road at A&E.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Oh I get you. That is why you hear f..k and even c..t on BBC drama far far more these days.
Acceptable to the majority.

I heard the C word on Have I Got News For You the other week, and it was barely past the watershed. Totally inappropriate, I thought

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I heard the C word on Have I Got News For You the other week, and it was barely past the watershed. Totally inappropriate, I thought

Colchester? Disgusting.

 

[TJC]

This make me quite angry. If what is reported to have been said, then it appears to me as opportunistic use of racial abuse accusation in order to punish someone because they didn't like being called a dirty player (if it was a player that raised a complaint).
This dilutes the whole racial abuse argument where some truely horrific and offensive stuff really goes on.
Secondly, the poor guy being accused must be going through hell right now, for what appears to be a reference to behaving like animals.

What we don't know is who raised the complaint? Is it a player who genuinely felt it was a racial slur, or someone else who took it on themselves to decide it was offensive to someone else?
As suggested, this seems a complete waste of police time and money, but I guess if whoever it was aimed at is offended; it has to be followed up (unlike theft, criminal damage and muggings!)

 

[Tommy2holes]

That's the danger of shouting abuse from a crowd.

True but how many times in one match does the ref get called a back and front?

Having witnessed the ineptitude of most refs this season, I would say that this is insulting to actual back and fronts.

 

[Tommy2holes]

This make me quite angry. If what is reported to have been said, then it appears to me as opportunistic use of racial abuse accusation in order to punish someone because they didn't like being called a dirty player (if it was a player that raised a complaint).
This dilutes the whole racial abuse argument where some truely horrific and offensive stuff really goes on.
Secondly, the poor guy being accused must be going through hell right now, for what appears to be a reference to behaving like animals.

What we don't know is who raised the complaint? Is it a player who genuinely felt it was a racial slur, or someone else who took it on themselves to decide it was offensive to someone else?
As suggested, this seems a complete waste of police time and money, but I guess if whoever it was aimed at is offended; it has to be followed up (unlike theft, criminal damage and muggings!)

True but if it was me that said it as a result of their players being completely over the top in their goading of the crowd, I'd be the first on the blower to CP to make a statement.

It very much seems that it was aimed at several players, both white and black but one of their black players has taken exception.

This reminds me of a time that a group of young kids were having a water fight and got me soaked. I said "oi you cheeky monkeys" one of the children were black and her mother challenged me on what I'd said. Easily cleared up as no offence meant.

 

[Swiss Tony]

Fuzzy Wuzzy was Corporal Jones fave term in Dads Army. Had been shown on TV in recent years. Also, the term Honkey has been used on TV in recent years in reruns of Starsky and Hutch. Should i be offended?

No you shouldn't, me neither thats my point.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Any chance you can give me an up to date list of words/phrases which have been banned in the last twenty or so years?
I get very confused as there are some words like qu..r that was originally widely used, then it was deemed offensive, but then it came back into general use again.
Another one which causes difficulties to older people is the use of col.ured instead of bl..k.
Who actually makes the decision as to which words are “in”, and which words are “out”. I think we need to be told.

The beauty of the language is the way it changes.
'Gay' only 50 years ago meant something quite different.
Who changes it?
Well, certainly not one person. My mother referred to blacks as 'coloureds' and bless her soul, she was inherently racist.
It was an awkward way of describing black people, and guess what? They didn't like it.
Now, here's the thing.
If by chance you used a phrase that caused offence, would you keep using it because you always had, or would you adapt?

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Not sure we're in disagreement then?

Exactly!

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Clearly you need educating by the oh so self righteous CPM, who seems to know it all.

You don't get it do you?
Mods....

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

You don't get it do you?
Mods....

Here we go, typical self righteous reply of "you don't get it do you" which roughly translates to the other person not viewing the world with the same eyes as you.

 

[Mad Cyril]

True but how many times in one match does the ref get called a back and front?

Is it ever really acceptable to scream the C word in public?

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

This make me quite angry. If what is reported to have been said, then it appears to me as opportunistic use of racial abuse accusation in order to punish someone because they didn't like being called a dirty player (if it was a player that raised a complaint).
This dilutes the whole racial abuse argument where some truely horrific and offensive stuff really goes on.
Secondly, the poor guy being accused must be going through hell right now, for what appears to be a reference to behaving like animals.

What we don't know is who raised the complaint? Is it a player who genuinely felt it was a racial slur, or someone else who took it on themselves to decide it was offensive to someone else?
As suggested, this seems a complete waste of police time and money, but I guess if whoever it was aimed at is offended; it has to be followed up (unlike theft, criminal damage and muggings!)

I think you need to read Stan's post regarding the complaint, and who made it.
While here, I don't think, from reading all here, it was about someone being called a dirty player.
How would an alleged racist comment like the one supposedly made dilute racial abuse?
By the way, there is no argument about abuse, surely?

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Here we go, typical self righteous reply of "you don't get it do you" which roughly translates to the other person not viewing the world with the same eyes as you.

Nope!
It's about playing the post, and not the poster.
Like the man do say: you don't get it.

 

[Hadleigh-shrimper]

Very touch subject there players did behave like animals . Hopefully wasn’t in a racist way but as Stan said be careful. They were a niggly horrible team .

 

[Stuart W]

The beauty of the language is the way it changes.
'Gay' only 50 years ago meant something quite different.
Who changes it?
Well, certainly not one person. My mother referred to blacks as 'coloureds' and bless her soul, she was inherently racist.
It was an awkward way of describing black people, and guess what? They didn't like it.
Now, here's the thing.
If by chance you used a phrase that caused offence, would you keep using it because you always had, or would you adapt?

I have made my point and I will just reply to you as you asked me a question.
Firstly I feel I know enough about vocabulary and the intonation of it to know whether it is offensive or not. I will not use words or phrases that I perceive as being offensive to others. If something is misinterpreted by somebody, than sorry but that is just too bad.

Secondly you have conveniently sidestepped my question about the word “queer”.
It appears to be in “fashion” again, just when many people had been warded off using it when it became a taboo word. I for one, am not going to be dictated to about using/not using a word when it ceases/becomes “cool” to do so, because the last I heard, we were still a free country.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

I never said excused, I said unfair for a reason. The twisted burden of proof with speech laws tacitly assumes a perpetrator is guilty before proven innocent for one.

Also a throwaway statement may well have landed him in hot water, let's not pretend that we haven't all said something stupid once that offended someone.

What do we do at the footy now, avoid shouting anything at the game?

But at the end of the day if found guilty in the eyes of the law then that's that. I'm specific with my words for a reason, and I'll be leaving this discussion on that point.

Shout 'anything'? Hmm... I would have to say no. After all anything, could be the racist abuse thrown by Millwall fans to this day at opposition black players.

If as you say, it was throwaway, as in unthinking, it betrays a mindset.

The first thing that came to the person's mind was a comment that angered a black player.
Was the player overreacting? If so, we'll see.
If the fan was out of line in a racist way: it's a ban, surely?

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

The beauty of the language is the way it changes.
'Gay' only 50 years ago meant something quite different.
Who changes it?
Well, certainly not one person. My mother referred to blacks as 'coloureds' and bless her soul, she was inherently racist.
It was an awkward way of describing black people, and guess what? They didn't like it.
Now, here's the thing.
If by chance you used a phrase that caused offence, would you keep using it because you always had, or would you adapt?

A lot of older folk don't know the latest connotations of a phrase they have used for 50 odd years. If they knew, they probably wouldn't say it. A couple of games ago the two old boys behind me were talking about Essex cricket at half time. They kept mentioning batsmen. I couldn't be bothered to interrupt them to tell them they can't say batsmen anymore. They meant no harm.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

I have made my point and I will just reply to you as you asked me a question.
Firstly I feel I know enough about vocabulary and the intonation of it to know whether it is offensive or not. I will not use words or phrases that I perceive as being offensive to others. If something is misinterpreted by somebody, than sorry but that is just too bad.

Secondly you have conveniently sidestepped my question about the word “queer”.
It appears to be in “fashion” again, just when many people had been warded off using it when it became a taboo word. I for one, am not going to be dictated to about using/not using a word when it ceases/becomes “cool” to do so, because the last I heard, we were still a free country.

Queer?
Had a quick search and haven't any ready-to-hand modern examples of its previous meaning: odd/unusual etc.

The question posed was whether you would use a phrase that would cause offence even if you thought the phrase OK?
I think you're saying 'yes' in the first paragraph, and saying you won't follow fashion in the second: is that right?

 

[Stuart W]

A lot of older folk don't know the latest connotations of a phrase they have used for 50 odd years. If they knew, they probably wouldn't say it. A couple of games ago the two old boys behind me were talking about Essex cricket at half time. They kept mentioning batsmen. I couldn't be bothered to interrupt them to tell them they can't say batsmen anymore. They meant no harm.

But that is the point. If anytime said to me “you can’t say batsmen any more”, I would say “actually you can, I have just said it and I will go on saying it”.