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ElstreeBlue

Coach
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
601
Location
Elstree
If Ron Martin can organise the debts to be paid off, that will be terrific news but only a start. What is the position on that, by the way? Is there any more news to confirm whether HMRC are going to be paid and if so then how? What are the terms of the finance underpinning the payments?

But, assuming the immediate HMRC threat is cleared, there are lots of things that the fans would presumably also like to know:

1 That the board tells us what problems have actually happened, why they have said the things they have said (eg the unjustified criticism of Spencer Prior and the Echo), and reassures us that the problems won't happen again now - ie that the club is now safe and can move forward. eg I'd hope that the players are now paid on time every month. Can't be good for morale, or ability to sign players, if this doesn't happen without fail.

2 That the transfer embargo is lifted and we can expand the squad so we can genuinely compete. I'm not talking about splashing money we don't have - we have to live within our means. But we need 18-20 fit professionals that Tilly thinks could do a job in League One. (The word "threadbare" doesn't even do the current situation justice.)

3 That there are no more debts about to crop up that could threaten liquidation/administration.

4 That we are no longer going to be making unbelievably eye-watering losses of £2.4m a year but the finances at the club will be managed properly so that the books are relatively balanced.

5 To explain properly WHY the club has had such huge losses despite the club having had revenue streams (eg Cups, League, TV, attendances) that were larger than previously. And to explain what exactly have the "costs" and "expenses" in the accounts been spent on?

6 To explain what is the debt that the club will at some point have to pay back to Ron's companies.

7 How the long-term plans for the stadium will benefit SUFC. (I'm not against the new stadium. I just want to know how the club will benefit from it - something that has never been explained at all, and quite a few people don't seem to think is important to find out.) For example, to explain how the club (as opposed to his other companies) will make money from FF if the club is a mere tenant? Would SUFC share any of the other revenues at FF (which has been implied but never properly explained what the legal basis for this would be) and if so what would be the legal safeguards to ensure that club shares those other revenues going forward, both under Ron Martin's tenure and afterwards? We don't need to know exact numbers. Just an explanation of how the club (rather than his other companies) benefits.

8 That there will be no more unhelpful statements like the one after the Leicester game, or the one critical of the performances of players still on our books and who could have been sold for more money if we played a bit harder to get (eg Revell).

Somehow, some people think that if the HMRC debt is paid off (which would be good news) then RM's proved himself. It would be a good start back on the road back again. But I'm sorry - we should never have got into this mess in the first place. And I'd still like to know that the club's short-term position is safe, and that the club's long-term position is secure at FF. Otherwise, we could be back here again (if indeed we're even out of the woods yet).
 
Good questions.

I think that there has to be a change of approach adopted by the club in terms of its communication because nobody is going to believe the 'don't worry about it, everything's going to be fine' line again.
 
We certainly need some reassurances now.

As to how we stop losing money the only realistic way things will change is a new stadium, which typically is the thing pushing us towards the brink...
 
If Ron Martin can organise the debts to be paid off, that will be terrific news but only a start. What is the position on that, by the way? Is there any more news to confirm whether HMRC are going to be paid and if so then how? What are the terms of the finance underpinning the payments?

But, assuming the immediate HMRC threat is cleared, there are lots of things that the fans would presumably also like to know:

1 That the board tells us what problems have actually happened, why they have said the things they have said (eg the unjustified criticism of Spencer Prior and the Echo), and reassures us that the problems won't happen again now - ie that the club is now safe and can move forward. eg I'd hope that the players are now paid on time every month. Can't be good for morale, or ability to sign players, if this doesn't happen without fail.

2 That the transfer embargo is lifted and we can expand the squad so we can genuinely compete. I'm not talking about splashing money we don't have - we have to live within our means. But we need 18-20 fit professionals that Tilly thinks could do a job in League One. (The word "threadbare" doesn't even do the current situation justice.)

3 That there are no more debts about to crop up that could threaten liquidation/administration.

4 That we are no longer going to be making unbelievably eye-watering losses of £2.4m a year but the finances at the club will be managed properly so that the books are relatively balanced.

5 To explain properly WHY the club has had such huge losses despite the club having had revenue streams (eg Cups, League, TV, attendances) that were larger than previously. And to explain what exactly have the "costs" and "expenses" in the accounts been spent on?

6 To explain what is the debt that the club will at some point have to pay back to Ron's companies.

7 How the long-term plans for the stadium will benefit SUFC. (I'm not against the new stadium. I just want to know how the club will benefit from it - something that has never been explained at all, and quite a few people don't seem to think is important to find out.) For example, to explain how the club (as opposed to his other companies) will make money from FF if the club is a mere tenant? Would SUFC share any of the other revenues at FF (which has been implied but never properly explained what the legal basis for this would be) and if so what would be the legal safeguards to ensure that club shares those other revenues going forward, both under Ron Martin's tenure and afterwards? We don't need to know exact numbers. Just an explanation of how the club (rather than his other companies) benefits.

8 That there will be no more unhelpful statements like the one after the Leicester game, or the one critical of the performances of players still on our books and who could have been sold for more money if we played a bit harder to get (eg Revell).

Somehow, some people think that if the HMRC debt is paid off (which would be good news) then RM's proved himself. It would be a good start back on the road back again. But I'm sorry - we should never have got into this mess in the first place. And I'd still like to know that the club's short-term position is safe, and that the club's long-term position is secure at FF. Otherwise, we could be back here again (if indeed we're even out of the woods yet).


As a non share holder, I'd be more than happy if shareholders alone could receive answers to questions 1,3,4,5,6 and 7. That is their entitlement as shareholders.
 
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Some good and very valid questions. If RM was to answer them, would you believe him? His credibility must be rock bottom now.

It also appears that questions 2 and 4 don't go together unless there is a high wage earner clear-out. Although without understanding question 5, it's difficult to know.
 
Great post, but If Ron came out tomorrow and said everything is now rosy, i still wouldnt believe him, why should we??

he has now lied to us all so many times that if he told me that tomorrow was coming i wouldn't believe him. You cannot continue to lie to people and then suddenly expect them to believe you even if you are telling the truth. Mr Martin has an awful lot of bridge building to do. UTB.
 
he has now lied to us all so many times that if he told me that tomorrow was coming i wouldn't believe him. You cannot continue to lie to people and then suddenly expect them to believe you even if you are telling the truth. Mr Martin has an awful lot of bridge building to do. UTB.

personally I am hoping that Ron does indeed answer these very good questions and in doing so the answers makes people go 'ahhh thats why he said what he said'.

This has been said so many times that it is getting boring but there can be very good reasons for business men to bend the truth. It is also true that sometimes you say something that you honestly believe but it doesn't work out- does that mean you have lied?
 
personally I am hoping that Ron does indeed answer these very good questions and in doing so the answers makes people go 'ahhh thats why he said what he said'.

This has been said so many times that it is getting boring but there can be very good reasons for business men to bend the truth. It is also true that sometimes you say something that you honestly believe but it doesn't work out- does that mean you have lied?

I can't see that happening with some people on here, whatever he does.

I partly agree with what you say in that he probably said things that needed to be said (e.g. we have "no financial crisis") when they needed to be said in order to stop creditors from getting jittery or for whatever reason. I think it's difficult to judge without actually being in his shoes or knowing the full story.

Having said that, his PR in this whole thing hasn't been up to its usual standards and there will be people, myself included, who will be thinking twice before taking his statements at face value in the future.
 
Having said that, his PR in this whole thing hasn't been up to its usual standards and there will be people, myself included, who will be thinking twice before taking his statements at face value in the future.

That's the crux of the matter for me. He built up trust over the years from a very low starting point (a property developer, no football background etc) to the point where through his actions and getting things done I was happy to leave the club in his hands.

However trust is something which takes a long time to build up but can be lost very easily and very quickly, which is exactly what has happened with Ron over the past few weeks.

I'm not going to say I'll never trust him again, however he's gone back to square one in my eyes and has to start building that trust all over again.
 
If Ron Martin can organise the debts to be paid off, that will be terrific news but only a start. What is the position on that, by the way? Is there any more news to confirm whether HMRC are going to be paid and if so then how? What are the terms of the finance underpinning the payments?

But, assuming the immediate HMRC threat is cleared, there are lots of things that the fans would presumably also like to know:

1 That the board tells us what problems have actually happened, why they have said the things they have said (eg the unjustified criticism of Spencer Prior and the Echo), and reassures us that the problems won't happen again now - ie that the club is now safe and can move forward. eg I'd hope that the players are now paid on time every month. Can't be good for morale, or ability to sign players, if this doesn't happen without fail.

2 That the transfer embargo is lifted and we can expand the squad so we can genuinely compete. I'm not talking about splashing money we don't have - we have to live within our means. But we need 18-20 fit professionals that Tilly thinks could do a job in League One. (The word "threadbare" doesn't even do the current situation justice.)

3 That there are no more debts about to crop up that could threaten liquidation/administration.

4 That we are no longer going to be making unbelievably eye-watering losses of £2.4m a year but the finances at the club will be managed properly so that the books are relatively balanced.

5 To explain properly WHY the club has had such huge losses despite the club having had revenue streams (eg Cups, League, TV, attendances) that were larger than previously. And to explain what exactly have the "costs" and "expenses" in the accounts been spent on?

6 To explain what is the debt that the club will at some point have to pay back to Ron's companies.

7 How the long-term plans for the stadium will benefit SUFC. (I'm not against the new stadium. I just want to know how the club will benefit from it - something that has never been explained at all, and quite a few people don't seem to think is important to find out.) For example, to explain how the club (as opposed to his other companies) will make money from FF if the club is a mere tenant? Would SUFC share any of the other revenues at FF (which has been implied but never properly explained what the legal basis for this would be) and if so what would be the legal safeguards to ensure that club shares those other revenues going forward, both under Ron Martin's tenure and afterwards? We don't need to know exact numbers. Just an explanation of how the club (rather than his other companies) benefits.

8 That there will be no more unhelpful statements like the one after the Leicester game, or the one critical of the performances of players still on our books and who could have been sold for more money if we played a bit harder to get (eg Revell).

Somehow, some people think that if the HMRC debt is paid off (which would be good news) then RM's proved himself. It would be a good start back on the road back again. But I'm sorry - we should never have got into this mess in the first place. And I'd still like to know that the club's short-term position is safe, and that the club's long-term position is secure at FF. Otherwise, we could be back here again (if indeed we're even out of the woods yet).

Whilst all that will be nice, I think we need to remember the Jack Nicholson line from that film "A Few Good Men"..

"The truth? You can't handle the truth!"

And sadly I don't think we could.

Looking at the state of panic that has existed over the last week, I seriously think we would ALL be better off just going to watch the games. We aren't in a position to actively do anything about any problems anyway.

Ron has been a lot more communicative than many club chairmen. I think that might change from now on.
 
Whilst all that will be nice, I think we need to remember the Jack Nicholson line from that film "A Few Good Men"..

"The truth? You can't handle the truth!"


That would be just before he got found out for a botched cover up ?
 
Ron has been a lot more communicative than many club chairmen. I think that might change from now on.

............................................................................................................

yes but how much of what he told us was the truth, to be honest i would rather hear nothing than the words of a liar. If Ron intends telling us anything in the future then it needs to be factual and truthful. UTB
 
Ron has been a lot more communicative than many club chairmen. I think that might change from now on.

............................................................................................................

yes but how much of what he told us was the truth, to be honest i would rather hear nothing than the words of a liar. If Ron intends telling us anything in the future then it needs to be factual and truthful. UTB

Well, ok, how many were lies?

"We're not going bust"

Well, we haven't.

"It is the intention to pay the tax"

It's paid.

"I'm making every effort to resolve the issues"

He was.

I don't think he lied about the stadium or Fossets Farm... sure there are people who claim he has lied but that's essentially their perception on what he says, which actually has not been proven to be the case.

The only dodgy thing for me is the players wages issue and that was GK, not RM, and as I said on another thread it wouldn't surprise me if GK made that statement without authority.

Personally I can't actually recall one lie. I can recall plenty of things that people thought were lies.

I'm happy to be corrected on this. For the record, I don't count calming words by telling us there's nothing to worry about as lies. A leader has no option really. If the people at the top aren't calm, then panic and chaos ensue and that achieves nothing. Obviously there were cashflow issues (I remember an interview where he stated that) but that was something that had to be managed and that he has done, albeit not in the way that he wanted.
 
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