Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

£100.00 to Shrimperzone says the UK will not experience any where near the kind of hardship you predict and hope for. Come on, put up or shut up.

For some things will be tough, not doubt about that, me included. There will be losers as well. Conversely, there will be winners. There will be those that don't feel a great change. What there won't be however is a complete and utter breakdown in the financial markets. The housing market won't crash (although that may not be a bad thing). You won't see thousands and thousands of businesses going to the wall. You won't see families starving on the streets and little children begging for more.

Life will go on. The UK as a world leader and innovator in so many fields will go on. I know you and others like you with your hardcore Marxist ideals would relish the thought of this capitalistic country of ours falling on it's knees but you know what, it's just not going to happen.

is Exile a Marxist?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Unfortunatley for her, she’s a prominent figure in politics, who’s also prone to incredible gaffes. She’s got a long list of them.



Actually, the future reference part that I’m referring to, is the next time yourself, or one of the other usual faces claim racism/xenophobia etc, I’ll be there ready to compare & contrast it from today’s exchanges.

Oh, if it’s full background you need, they’re easy to look up. Just as I did. Take the nurses one for example, I copy & pasted the full article to SZ, only I reworded it. I took Abbott’s name out & replaced it with another prominent MP, and simply swapped a few of the key words around. It still read as a prejudiced piece.

No, I’m not saying you, nor I, are victims.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy that exists on this place from time to time. We all know you’d have lambasted the comments if they’d have come from a Tory/UKIP mouth.

Edit: as you didn’t answer my question - again - whether or not you thought the comments were racially offensive, prejudiced and downright irresponsible of an MP, I’m going to be forced to believe that you do not think that they are racially offensive, prejudiced and downright irresponsible of an MP. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, and I’ll happily retract & apologise.

I think I missed this:

Oh, if it’s full background you need, they’re easy to look up. Just as I did. Take the nurses one for example, I copy & pasted the full article to SZ, only I reworded it. I took Abbott’s name out & replaced it with another prominent MP, and simply swapped a few of the key words around. It still read as a prejudiced piece.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Unfortunatley for her, she’s a prominent figure in politics, who’s also prone to incredible gaffes. She’s got a long list of them.



Actually, the future reference part that I’m referring to, is the next time yourself, or one of the other usual faces claim racism/xenophobia etc, I’ll be there ready to compare & contrast it from today’s exchanges.

Oh, if it’s full background you need, they’re easy to look up. Just as I did. Take the nurses one for example, I copy & pasted the full article to SZ, only I reworded it. I took Abbott’s name out & replaced it with another prominent MP, and simply swapped a few of the key words around. It still read as a prejudiced piece.

No, I’m not saying you, nor I, are victims.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy that exists on this place from time to time. We all know you’d have lambasted the comments if they’d have come from a Tory/UKIP mouth.

Edit: as you didn’t answer my question - again - whether or not you thought the comments were racially offensive, prejudiced and downright irresponsible of an MP, I’m going to be forced to believe that you do not think that they are racially offensive, prejudiced and downright irresponsible of an MP. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, and I’ll happily retract & apologise.

In the context that was provided, no I don't find her comments particularly offensive and as they were theoretically aimed at my 'type' I guess I have the right to choose not to be offended.

No need to apologise to me, I'm not aware of anything particularly offensive that you have aimed at me either. Appreciate the offer though.

 

[Bielzibubz]

is Exile a Marxist?

In the true context of the word probably not and perhaps in hindsight the words ideological Socialist would have been more appropriate.

But in the context of my reply it does somewhat fit......

Marxism is an economic school of thought whose main aim is to discredit capitalism and individualism and to promote socialism and an even distribution of resources in a community.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

In the true context of the word probably not and perhaps in hindsight the words ideological Socialist would have been more appropriate.

But in the context of my reply it does somewhat fit......

Marxism is an economic school of thought whose main aim is to discredit capitalism and individualism and to promote socialism and an even distribution of resources in a community.

maybe use the edit function then and change it to Socialist, I'm pretty sure that term is accurate.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

CAN WE PLEASE GET ON TOPIC!!!!
The EU seem to be saying that 29/3 is THE day, only options are the TM capitulation non deal which won't get thru P of W because of the NI backstop, and a hard no deal brexit. So really just a No Deal bomb shell or a destruction of democracy if the MPs fold to be remain?
If you find DA or marxism great then please start another thread or pm each other.

Teddy thrown!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

With the concentration on Abbott I still haven't got a response to the post and article (OK, it was the Guardian) I posted earlier concerning Barnier's comments today.
If his comments are taken at face value it would appear to fly in the face of the idea that parliament can stop a hard Brexit. It would also contradict the belief of Spaceman Spiff and Lord Football, that something can be changed on the backstop situation, thus fascilitating the passing of May's deal. Is it just bluffing?............ isn't getting a bit late for bluffing now???

You’ve never been a negotiator have you?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

CAN WE PLEASE GET ON TOPIC!!!!
The EU seem to be saying that 29/3 is THE day, only options are the TM capitulation non deal which won't get thru P of W because of the NI backstop, and a hard no deal brexit. So really just a No Deal bomb shell or a destruction of democracy if the MPs fold to be remain?
If you find DA or marxism great then please start another thread or pm each other.

Teddy thrown!

No - collect teddy and re-read my earlier posts, where you will find the answers you seek to the questions you have, my child

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

CAN WE PLEASE GET ON TOPIC!!!!
The EU seem to be saying that 29/3 is THE day, only options are the TM capitulation non deal which won't get thru P of W because of the NI backstop, and a hard no deal brexit. So really just a No Deal bomb shell or a destruction of democracy if the MPs fold to be remain?
If you find DA or marxism great then please start another thread or pm each other.

Teddy thrown!

No one is advocating Marxism.
May's deal #2 and various amendments are being voted on next Tuesday - how the process is likely to pan out should be clearer depending on those shifts.

 

[blues exile]

£100.00 to Shrimperzone says the UK will not experience any where near the kind of hardship you predict and hope for. Come on, put up or shut up.

For some things will be tough, not doubt about that, me included. There will be losers as well. Conversely, there will be winners. There will be those that don't feel a great change. What there won't be however is a complete and utter breakdown in the financial markets. The housing market won't crash (although that may not be a bad thing). You won't see thousands and thousands of businesses going to the wall. You won't see families starving on the streets and little children begging for more.

Life will go on. The UK as a world leader and innovator in so many fields will go on. I know you and others like you with your hardcore Marxist ideals would relish the thought of this capitalistic country of ours falling on it's knees but you know what, it's just not going to happen.

Empty gestures and wishful thinking don't have any substance. If we could agree on a substantive list of statistical information or measurement six months after Brexit I would be very happy to commit €100 or £100, whichever is the greater, to Shrimperzone. As you have suggested it, I am happy for you to have first go at possible indicators. Over to you.
On some of the other issues you mention, we are of course already seeing people starving on the streets, with homelessness up to record levels and the rise of food banks. Not to mention the recent UN report about which the Tories are in denial. And the ludicrous employment at record levels claims where 1 hour a week = a job! You throw in Marxism, which I take it is meant to be a criticism. I would describe it more accurately as a desire for social justice, an aspiration you clearly do not share.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No one is advocating Marxism.
May's deal #2 and various amendments are being voted on next Tuesday - how the process is likely to pan out should be clearer depending on those shifts.

FWIW,my guess is at some point after next Tuesday we'll see Article 50 extended.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46978961

Polish PM wants UK Poles back.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That's me done for the night.............I give up! I don't know what all the argument is about, if they don't like Abbott perhaps they should settle for IPA? Wouldn't dare suggest 'Old Speckled Hen' .......................that could set up another ten pages of abusive posts.

Too many nights at The Cricketers,Yogi.

P.S.Abbott is better,certainly stronger.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Deborah Meaden on Dyson:

bit rich to push an Exit from the EU saying it will all be fine and then move your Biz to a Country that has just signed a deal with the EU so you can gain easy access to a Market that many who believed him now won't be able to. Those with influence should use it carefully.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46978961

Polish PM wants UK Poles back.

Not surprised, growth depends on having a good supply of working age people. Health, tech, education, agriculture, social care - all have recruitment issues in UK. As soon as this is all settled I expect the government will need to go on 'come to the UK' PR exercises.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not surprised, growth depends on having a good supply of working age people. Health, tech, education, agriculture, social care - all have recruitment issues in UK. As soon as this is all settled I expect the government will need to go on 'come to the UK' PR exercises.

Last time I was in Southend I had a good mate complaining to me about all the Polish workers undercutting prices in the UK.Since he's a (retired but still working PT) Chief Accountant, he clearly wasn't talking about his own particular industry.

FWIW, I've always thought that the vast majority EU workers in the UK would return to their country of origin when the economic conditions were right.So did Blair's government.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Empty gestures and wishful thinking don't have any substance. If we could agree on a substantive list of statistical information or measurement six months after Brexit I would be very happy to commit €100 or £100, whichever is the greater, to Shrimperzone. As you have suggested it, I am happy for you to have first go at possible indicators. Over to you.
On some of the other issues you mention, we are of course already seeing people starving on the streets, with homelessness up to record levels and the rise of food banks. Not to mention the recent UN report about which the Tories are in denial. And the ludicrous employment at record levels claims where 1 hour a week = a job! You throw in Marxism, which I take it is meant to be a criticism. I would describe it more accurately as a desire for social justice, an aspiration you clearly do not share.

I can't give you a substantive list or indicators of what measurements to base any agreement on as I don't know for sure what Brexit will look like and neither do you. All we have are opinions based on what we believe.

Starvation in the UK? You're serious aren't you? No one is starving here in the UK. Homeless people don't starve. Yes people go hungry, that is not the same as starving. Typical

You know it's strange that the three people on here who I would say all share an out of date, un-electable far left Socialist ideal all live outside the UK. Wonder why that is. Not that it's a bad thing

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

You’ve never been a negotiator have you?

No!.............but yes, I do understand that negotiation is an art of making possible the impossible.... ....................................................and at the last minute! I also imagine that each negotiation is individual to itself. This one appears extra complicated because on one side you're dealing with 27 countries and on the other with a country that is deeply divided on what it wants. You are also hampered by both sides implacably holding to firm red lines. I refer back to my post #5091, where I linked to a Guardian article. This, in brief, illustrated the problem with this negotiation being that "there is very little middle ground on which the two sides can make trades." I've just been watching street magicians on FB, performing seemingly impossible tricks. I wait, with anticipation, to see what sleight of hand you can perform in the coming days!

 

[blues exile]

I can't give you a substantive list or indicators of what measurements to base any agreement on as I don't know for sure what Brexit will look like and neither do you. All we have are opinions based on what we believe.

Starvation in the UK? You're serious aren't you? No one is starving here in the UK. Homeless people don't starve. Yes people go hungry, that is not the same as starving. Typical

You know it's strange that the three people on here who I would say all share an out of date, un-electable far left Socialist ideal all live outside the UK. Wonder why that is. Not that it's a bad thing

So when it comes to specifics you back away. No surprise there. My offer still stands but I guess I simply called your bluff.
As for the starvation issue, the Office For National Statistics figures for 2016 show malnutrition as the underlying cause of 66 deaths and a contributory factor in a further 351, the highest number in a decade. Do you suppose those figures have improved in the past two years?
What exactly is 'far left' about a desire to eradicate the injustices the Tories have heaped on the British people in the past 8 years? The next election will test the 'unelectable' canard that the far right are so fond of.
And what on earth is the relevance of where one lives to the debate? On that basis, I might as well contend that living in the area of both sides of the Thames estuary is a well known hotbed of bone headed bigotry but that would be grossly unfair on the thousands of fair minded, sentient human beings who live there and don't conform to the often justifiable stereotype.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Unite Union:

No-deal Brexit fantasists should pay heed to this strongest warning yet from Airbus, a powerhouse of UK manufacturing and a central support to local and regional economies across the UK. The consequences of a no deal Brexit on the future of the UK’s world leading aerospace sector, its integrated supply chain and wider manufacturing would be catastrophic.
Tens of thousands of decent well paid skilled jobs that support families and represent the backbone of communities across the country, are caught in the crossfire of a no-deal face-off which could deny future generations the hope and opportunity of high quality, well paid, apprenticeships into skilled work.

And from Wyn Evans, a Welsh Farmer.

“If there is no deal it would be horrific for farmers, especially in the sheep sector. If we have tariffs of 40/50/60% we wouldn’t be able to compete.