Brilliant support and,

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 08 2005,20:36)]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ May 08 2005,21:28)]Of course your opinions aren't null and void.  But, you did categorically and very definitely say that we blew promotion.  I was merely saying that I'm struggling to see how you can be, or appear to be, so emphatic from such a distance.

I know.

However I base my opinions on the very real statistics I have on my screen at the moment. Just a few weeks ago we were top and we have only ourselves to blame for not remaining in that pole position. On that basis, I maintain we blew it ...

WS

I'm with Upminster Blue on this one Mike... I think talk of blowing it and bottling are off the mark. Yesterday the team played their hearts out, and yes they made mistakes, and looked nervous at times, but I saw no lack of effort or self-belief, no-one shirking thier responsibilities or hiding. Frankly I think we have over achieved this season, stretched ourselves too far and come up fractionaly short. And as you say, the season isn't over yet.

Come on you Blue Boys!

 

[tomasufc 4eva]

Also, if we can make it through to Cardiff, we will actually be in a better position than we were going to Grimsby. A win will get us promoted whereas going to Grimsby we knew that even if we had won it might not be enough.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (tomasufc 4eva @ May 08 2005,21:11)]Also, if we can make it through to Cardiff, we will actually be in a better position than we were going to Grimsby. A win will get us promoted whereas going to Grimsby we knew that even if we had won it might not be enough.

BUT GRIMBSY HAD NOTHING TO PLAY FOR ,WHERE AS IN CARDIFF IN A FINAL THE OTHER TEAM NO THAT IF THEY WIN THEY GET PROMOTED DERRR

 

[Guest]

Your crap, come to Brizzy.Rd for good support and travel with some real passionate fans

tis a laugh, what do you 1 season glory hunters get up 2?

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 08 2005,20:36)]However I base my opinions on the very real statistics I have on my screen at the moment.

It it were just about statitics it wouldn't be the beautiful game that it is. Instead it would be some sanitised, contrived, American "national" sport.

 

[Pato the Blue]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ May 08 2005,21:17)]Your crap, come to Brizzy.Rd for good support and travel with some real passionate fans

tis a laugh, what do you 1 season glory hunters get up 2?

Oh please you havent even got a bloody decent stadium, and your team is a pile of w***......and glory hunters??

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ May 08 2005,22:19)]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 08 2005,20:36)]However I base my opinions on the very real statistics I have on my screen at the moment.

It it were just about statitics it wouldn't be the beautiful game that it is.  Instead it would be some sanitised, contrived, American "national" sport.

True. But I need to have something to do whilst I dip my toes in the warm Med ...

WS

 

[rabbloke]

Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ May 08 2005,19:26)]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ May 08 2005,17:59)]

Quote[/b] (rabbloke @ May 08 2005,18:50)]Our chances for next season are academic if we blow it again through lack of bottle. This Blues team has consistently failed to raise its game for the big occassion, such as two LDV finals and any of the last five league matches. We had a long unbeaten stretch which belied our ability but when push came to shove we did not have the mental strength that converts average into good.

Perfectly put, rabbloke. And I think that is the point that Wiggy was trying to make, albeit very badly.

WS

So what are the ramifications of your claim?  If we are bottlers, by default, we will never win anything unless we come up against worse bottlers with less talent.

You're suggesting that with this team (or do you mean the management team) we will never win anything and be in the same league forever.  Who exactly are the bottlers in the team?

As was pointed out to me, we have plenty of players who have been significant parts of successful teams but I haven't seen a marked contrast in performances from anyone in our team from when we were playing well to when we've had our poor run.  Only Eastwood and Gray, perhaps have been guilty of this but Gray seems to be a form player, not a bottler and Eastwood has still managed to score goals in spite of his waning form.

At Cardiff, both times, we were playing teams in the division above.  Blackpool were clearly better than us and that was a very different group of players to that which faced Wrexham.  Second time round, we took Wrexham to extra time.  Who's to say the games after Cardiff were not a result of tiredness, having gone all the way in Cardiff?  Who's to say we weren't just depressed after Cardiff?  Who's to say it wasn't just a dip in form that every top team has faced this year.  We didn't play poorly against Orient, Macc or Grimsby yet came out scratching our heads at how we only got 4 points from them, largely by virtue of a late winner at Macc.

I don't think you can write this team off at all.  We definitely have winners in our team and they'll be desperate to repay the fans for great support across a long season.

Good questions raised. Just what are the ramifications and who are the bottlers? The ramifications are dependant upon the steps taken by the team to identify the problems within the players and where necessary to replace the 'never likely' to achievers. The point that our two LDV finals were against higher opposition is valid but can you honestly say that Blackpool or Wrexham did enough to prevent us from playing to our best or did you get the impression that we stopped ourselves, mentally, from performing well?. We have all seen what the team can do against Lg 2 opposition and yet all too often we have watched games where the team play like a shadow of themselves. I would go so far as to say that there are times when we look bereft of any idea how to play some teams. There are obvious ability shortages that cannot be over looked. The defence has Prior, an old head and in his day a solid performer at a higher level. His experience carries him through but the legs are going to let him down soon. Barrett, a committed defender and team stalwart much in the mould of Paul Clark who gives his all but cannot do it all alone. Wilson who has improved consistently and is a good squad utility player but just falls short of a promotion chasing left back. Then you have Jupp or Hunt. Jupp is three years past his best performances, tries hard but does not lend enough to the teams overall game and Hunt, who is committed, possesses an element of talent but is low in the distribution stakes. Generally the back line lacks that extra yard of pace and at times, positionally, looks all at sea.
In the midfield we have Maher, a player I like, yet he fails to fulfil my expectations of a captain and spends more time arguing with refs that geeing up the team. He is the hub of our creativity but lacks the killer through ball, has dire free-kicks and corners and fails to contribute an acceptable return of goals for shots taken and positions found. Pettefer is a terrier that hounds the opposition and breaks up much of their play. Again I like him and he has done well but he needs to add distribution to his game to get into the invaluable class. Gower has the ability but frustrates me far more than he impresses. He needs to tackle the demons in his head and then start tackling a few of the opposition. Can cross and shoot but rarely with any consistency. Then we have Bentley, a player I believe will be top draw and I am prepared to overlook many of his flaws as inexperience. He is committed and on his day a great asset. First touch needs work. Up front there is Eastwood. He needs to find the consistency that experience brings but I am sure he will go on banging them in for years to come. Gray as said by others is a confidence player. Often he lacks the delivery from others but when he does get it needs to do more with the scraps that come his way. Would like to see him coming late from behind a front two in a 4-3-3 set up. Dudfield, an enigma. Can look the business and can look pants. Jury is out but I think he will improve.
Then we have the management. Tilly and Brush. I have no idea who is the dominant one but if we assume Tilly makes the bottom line decisions then I believe his inexperience has shown in our fluffing the last part of the season. Needs to make substitutions when they are needed and not when it is too late. He needs to take players of the field that are having a mare and needs to put the proverbial boot up the backside of the side when it looks clueless. Once again I believe he will be top draw and we may have hoped for too much too soon.
This side has done well. Probably better than its ability. If next season is to yield greater things then a few additions are necessary, tactics need to be sorted and expectation needs to be realistic. Up The Blues!!!

 

[wiggy]

Spot on! Could not have put it better myself.

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ May 08 2005,22:27)]Spot on! Could not have put it better myself.

Exactly wiggy. If you could put it like that, you wouldn't be being flamed every time you post, and this thread wouldn't be 11 pages long...

 

[OlvisIII]

I'm sorry - did we just have an awful season? Can I congratulate all the fans who have decided to pan the entire squad for what they have achieved this year. What a confidence booster for the lads - you may have got into the play offs boys but none of you are good enough! Bravo chaps - have you seen us in the last ten years?

 

[sufcintheprem]

A frank reflection rabbloke but this seems to be where we differ. All I was expecting this season was for Tilly to turn relegation candidates of last year in to something we can be proud of. I think the generally unanimous good reception across 'rivals' messageboards shows how well we've acquitted ourselves on and off the pitch.

By the looks of your assessments, you're expecting promotion and won't be terribly happy with a near miss

 

[footymad13]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ May 08 2005,19:25)]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 08 2005,17:24)]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ May 08 2005,16:16)]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 08 2005,16:36)]We will have no better chance at getting promotion than this season.

Absolute rubbish.  A few decent additions to the squad to replace the likes of Corbett, Husbands, Bramble and we'll be looking very, very strong for next season.

What's for sure is that you won't get 33-1 for the League Two title next year.

Oh come on, three games to go till the end of the season and we had it in our hands, ours to lose and thats exactly what we did.

Next season, anything could happen, but we were 1st a few weeks ago and you can't do no better than that.

We're not talking about the last 3 games!  I was responding to your point that we will never have a better chance of going up, ie our future chances of promotion.  

To take your statement literally, we will never ever in the next 100 years be in a position as good as a win being needed in our last game to promote us.  As I said, absolute rubbish!  If you believe your statement we might as well all pack up and go home now.

In any case, even if we don't make it through the play-offs, we will be amongst the bookies favourites, if not the favourites for the title next year.  Think about it:

* Eastwood will have some league experience under his belt.
* We'll have Eastwood for the whole season.
* Tilly, Brush and the players will have learnt from this year.
* We will have new signings replacing the deadwood in the squad (Corbett, Husbands etc) who will compete for first team places and rectify our weaknesses.

I dont give a flying f**k about what the bookies say, and thats all very well what you say but its very textbook. What about if Eastwood leaves or get injuried. What happens if certain players leave or the squad perform differently to this year, which has been known.

Your saying this, but its all assumptions and maybes. At the end of the day we were up there ready to take our place in the league above. 9 points to get and we needed 3 of those. We totally 100% blew it and the players need to ask themselfs why. Yep we have had a good season and yep the commitment of the players has been good even if they can't get 1/3 to get us up, but it don't count for alot if we arn't up in League One next season.

Still lets just hope everything goes to plan next season because it always does of course !

 

[sufcintheprem]

We'll get better next year. With two cup runs and much increased attendances, we'll either have more money or be less financially constrained. There's not a lot of difference at this level between promotion and playoffs in terms of financial remunieration.

One more summer signing, I feel, and we'll be a real force to be reckoned with for the title if we don't go up. I'm not going to speculate as to who it'll be or where they'll play.

The most important thing though, I feel is not to expect too much. Remember our start to the season and look at us now. Expectations are often a manager's bigest enemy.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 09 2005,09:54)]We totally 100% blew it and the players need to ask themselfs why.

last I looked we were still in the play offs

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 09 2005,09:54)]We totally 100% blew it and the players need to ask themselfs why. Yep we have had a good season and yep the commitment of the players has been good even if they can't get 1/3 to get us up, but it don't count for alot if we arn't up in League One next season.

Still lets just hope everything goes to plan next season because it always does of course !  

next time I see Spinner or Barrett I'll ask them why they bottled it.

 

[footymad13]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ May 09 2005,09:13)]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 09 2005,09:54)]We totally 100% blew it and the players need to ask themselfs why.

last I looked we were still in the play offs

True, and if we do go up ill hold my tongue but we should have been going up automaticly. There was no reason as to why we shouldnt have, we were in a brilliant position.

 

[rabbloke]

Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ May 09 2005,09:52)]A frank reflection rabbloke but this seems to be where we differ.  All I was expecting this season was for Tilly to turn relegation candidates of last year in to something we can be proud of.  I think the generally unanimous good reception across 'rivals' messageboards shows how well we've acquitted ourselves on and off the pitch.

By the looks of your assessments, you're expecting promotion and won't be terribly happy with a near miss

I will be disappointed but only because of the levels of hope raised by our position just five games ago. We have of course had a superb season that would be a dream come true if it ended in promotion. I was not knocking the team for underachieving, merely kicking myself for overexpectation. The side, as I cited, has its limitations. The main concern for me was that when there should be no need for extra motivation, as in the last five games, but they did not always appear that up for it. Yes in spells but not once for an entire ninety minutes. We cerainly had the playing ability to beat Orient and Oxford but did not produce enough of it. I doubt we had the mental ability, the self-belief, the certainty. Winning sides need to guard against complacency but they also need to exude arrogance. The opposition needs to see that you are confident in your ability and that you are a threat.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 09 2005,09:54)]What happens if certain players leave or the squad perform differently to this year, which has been known.

Look at the season Mansfield Town have just had after losing in the playoff final & Lawrence packing his backs & heading up to Sunderland. I DON'T want that to be us next year, say after we've endured yet another Millennium defeat & Freddy's gone & left us!

Having now finally made my way through this epic thread we all seem to be going round & round in circles.

FACT (this point's been made already) that we all start equal, form counts for nothing & of the 4 there's not one team that can't win the playoffs.
FACT we've had a good season, better than any of us expected pre-season or even in early Sept...
FACT we're all gutted that we've gone from top to 4 in 2.5 weeks, do you think the team aren't?
FACT we all love Southend UNITED (other than the Oooo's muppets who frequent this board), so lets draw a line under the past month & focus on a positive last 3 games!

I also cannot believe how people are moaning, I'm not going to Cardiff if we get there again, I know I'll be there, no matter what!

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (footymad13 @ May 09 2005,09:54)]I dont give a flying f**k about what the bookies say, and thats all very well what you say but its very textbook. What about if Eastwood leaves or get injuried. What happens if certain players leave or the squad perform differently to this year, which has been known.

Your saying this, but its all assumptions and maybes. At the end of the day we were up there ready to take our place in the league above. 9 points to get and we needed 3 of those. We totally 100% blew it and the players need to ask themselfs why. Yep we have had a good season and yep the commitment of the players has been good even if they can't get 1/3 to get us up, but it don't count for alot if we arn't up in League One next season.

Still lets just hope everything goes to plan next season because it always does of course !  

Yes, we should have gone up and gone up as champions. But saying that we blew it is over the top. "We blew it" implies that the players weren't up for it, bottled it, made school boy errors and basically hid. That certainly wasn't the case, either at Grimsby or against Yeovil or Orient.