Camp Bling solution...

[Groyne Strain]

All good stuff. A reasoned debate in most part. For my twopennorth (again) it's a case of immediate impact and legacy.

If the scheme went ahead, there would be a definite increase in traffic once the road was built in my view. I think there'd be more people thinking "That new road's done, may as well use that than my usual route". The effect on easing traffic congestion could and, in my opinion, would be minimal, then reducing to no effect at all soon after.

With regards to the park, letting go of 1% would be 1% too much. There is much green belt in the country that is essentially derelict land, unused and unuseable for social reasons. The park, however, is used by the public every day and enjoy the amenity a great deal. Dealing with one problem by taking something away from public use has now created another.

Whatever people's take on the occupants on Camp Bling, there's a certain amount of ignorance and prejudice being aired on here. Whilst I wouldn't choose their lifestyle and don't partucularly like their method of protest, I respect their right to do so without the need to resort to cheap insults and erroneous generalisations.

Could the estimated £20m cost now be put to better use? Would a by-pass on a site already built upon without affecting green belt and public amenity (Sutton Road - Progress Road?) benefit the people of Southend more?

This issue's bigger than what is perceived as a bunch of hippies, bigger than whether or not Fossetts Farm may be affected. It's something that has an impact on the whole public and not just football fans and environmentalists. People may need to think about what may be best not just for themselves but for generations to come. Especially those entrusted with our vote and taxes.

 

[The Artful Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Groyne Strain @ May 24 2006,23:29)]This issue's bigger than what is perceived as a bunch of hippies,

Yes you're absolutely right.
 Take 50 protesters, find one who has dreadlocks, photo him and the media have their stereotype. That's what we read and are lead believe in the press.
 They say they have 20,000 signatuares, I bet they're not all smelly hippies.

 

[C'mon you Blues]

getting back to the related point about SUFC, the stadium is not dependent on the road. That is a fact. Mind you I think a lot of you will change your minds on the great unwashed if they decide to camp out at "Camp Fossett" and try to protect the "ancient and sacred hill fort" (which by the way does not exist but no doubt 20,000 people will sign a petition to protect)

 

[Firestorm]

Some very good points there.

As for increased traffic, I agree that building a road, in some instances , encorages people to use that road as opposed to their normal route. That isn't an increase of traffic , rather more a shift in its position, However for the majority of users of this road , there is no other route. Shoebury to A127 and beyond, there is only one way to go, so I doubtif there are many people using alternative routes at the moment.

Also the park is not being destroyed, it is having a footpath built inside the existing perimeter as the road widening will use the current footpath and verge.
Trees inside and outside of the park will be removed to cater for the road and the new footpath. A large % of the trees which the "save the park campaigners" have counted in their Propaganda are outside of the park.

As for 20,000 signatures, and supporters. how many of those signatures are are Southend residents ? I saw them petition in the high street, it was taken in the middle of summer at the weekend. I went and asked a few questions of the organisers and whilst I was there people siging the petition were being told that a "Road was going through the park, destroying Hundereds of trees" and then having to be told where the park was, hardly sounded like people who are affected by the traffic congestion on a daily basis. The Mother of the young child is a resident of Rochford or Hockley, so , personally, I don't think she has any right to dictate how a council, which if she ever paid council tax wouldn't see her money, operates.

Climate change is an emotive issue and easing congestion and raising average speed of commuter traffic (I don't mean 70 up to 90 MPH) is know to cut emmissions. Basically if you can't stop them using cars the next best thing is to stop the operating at inefficient levels, stopping them running their engines whilst travelling at walking pace is a good place to start

 

[Bielzibubz]

God help us and this board if they find a mummyfied bog body at FF once digging does get under way

All joking apart, any major development like FF has to have an archeological survey done before the bulldozers move in. Considering the proximity of the Saxon burial at Priory Park it wouldn't suprise me if they do find something that gets Swampy and his/her (i never could tell) brethren camped on site

 

[Firestorm]

Occupation of the FF site may be different. FF is privately owned land. Camp Bling is council owned property and councils are generally at little more reluctant to get the "heavies" in than private concerns

 

[Bielzibubz]

Good point FS but I think, and i may be wrong, even being privately owned the owner still has to apply for an eviction notice and that can take months.
Also, when the Newbury bypass protest first started years ago 15% of the land proposed for development was privately owned before being compulsory purchaced by the Government. It initialy took 7 months for the owners of that land to get them removed before the authorities took it over at which point they moved on to Council owned land and basically put a halt to everything for months.

 

[The Artful Shrimper]

Looking at the new housing development in Birmingham, where the Boudicca burial plot at mcDonalds has been found, the digging/exploration could take....years

F%$*ing crusties

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ May 25 2006,08:40)]God help us and this board if they find a mummyfied bog body at FF once digging does get under way

All joking apart, any major development like FF has to have an archeological survey done before the bulldozers move in. Considering the proximity of the Saxon burial at Priory Park it wouldn't suprise me if they do find something that gets Swampy and his/her (i never could tell) brethren camped on site

Good points D62SUBOY. Actually the Fossetts site has been excavated several times. There is Royal Commisssion on the Historical Monuments of England on "Prittlewell Camp" published in 1999. In summary as it is the most boring tome I've ever read, they think it was an enclosure (probably late Bronze age). It has a green lane and a mound that they think may have been the site of a 13th century post mill but they are not sure. There is very little evidence (in fact none) that people lived there. It is assumed they drove their cattle there for protection as they could see if marauders were coming up the Roche. Half the enclosure (basically a round bank and ditch) is in a field that has been ploughed for centuries. Consequently that bank is virtually flat.
In summary , "Stonhenge it ain't" There were quite a few in England. They are not rare.
PS the report says "the southern and western arcs "are harder to distinguish because of their situation in thick woodland (the woods behind the old youth commemoration ground - now Waitrose) and undergrowth but also because of the damage caused by later activities particularly Corporation rubbish dumping in the early 20th century" Southend Council stikes again.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Lets hope they don't find anything of consiquence once digging starts

Although saying that perhaps they might find the bike I left on the perimeter of the woods when I was 7 (i think) I went out on it and for some unknown reason returned without it....... God, my parents were pi$$ed

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Top debate, folks. I'm not going to add anything because I'm throwing my (not inconsiderable) weight fully behind Groyne Strain. He has summed up my feelings 100%.

My final thought is best expressed by Joni Mitchell:

<span style='color:blue'>They took all the trees
Put &#39;em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see &#39;em

Don&#39;t it always seem to go
That you don&#39;t know what you&#39;ve got
Till it&#39;s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot</span>

 

[Firestorm]

Nice thoughts Matt, but she is American and they won&#39;t even sign up for Kyoto so they cant go off and bleat at us..............

 

[The Artful Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ May 25 2006,09:57)]<span style='color:blue'>They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot</span>

 " they dug up all the trees, and then named the streets after them." .Anon

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ May 25 2006,09:57)]<span style='color:blue'>They took all the trees
Put &#39;em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see &#39;em

Don&#39;t it always seem to go
That you don&#39;t know what you&#39;ve got
Till it&#39;s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot</span>

...a song in which Joni complains that they &#39;paved paradise to put up a parking lot&#39;, a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise, something which Joni singularly fails to point out, because it doesn&#39;t quite fit with her blinkered view of the world.