Clubs always return to their natural level

[Uncle Leo]

How long before the rugby team demands the football team to vacate the stadium citing the footballers are destroying the pitch.

Money talks sadly.

The groundhsare has been going now for nearly 16 years, no sign of the relationship coming to an end. The stadium owners (effectively) own both the rugby club and the football club.

League is less of a strain on them pitch than union too - more free flowing play, less ****ing about with mauls, scrums, and so on.

 

[mrsblue]

The groundhsare has been going now for nearly 16 years, no sign of the relationship coming to an end. The stadium owners (effectively) own both the rugby club and the football club.

League is less of a strain on them pitch than union too - more free flowing play, less ****ing about with mauls, scrums, and so on.

Wigan has always been a rugby town with the football club playing second fiddle,even in their premiership heyday the crowds on average were pretty poor.

Whelan pumped millions into the football club yet the public only rarely got behind the team with large crowds namely against the big clubs.The prem money has gone with the prem parachute payment following suit.The owners have the dilemma of making cash with the rugby or supplementing the football club.

Whelan did his bit but it looks all over to me.

 

[Angell Delight]

A club's natural level is really just a function of the size of its crowd. The more people that come to watch the more money you'll make. The more money you make the more you can afford to pay players. The more you pay players to better players you'll attract.

We can't compete with Championship clubs let alone Premiership clubs at Roots Hall. Without further developmen even FF will only really give us a shot at the Championship.

For us to be a success and move our natural level up a notch we need a new stadium. The Southend conurbation is the same size as, if not bigger than, Middlesbrough. We therefore have the potential to move our natural level should FF ever get built.

Saved me putting exactly the same, good post.

 

[Angell Delight]

Wigan has always been a rugby town with the football club playing second fiddle,even in their premiership heyday the crowds on average were pretty poor.

Whelan pumped millions into the football club yet the public only rarely got behind the team with large crowds namely against the big clubs.The prem money has gone with the prem parachute payment following suit.The owners have the dilemma of making cash with the rugby or supplementing the football club.

Whelan did his bit but it looks all over to me.

Agree. Clubs like Wigan will always need a benefactor to do anything due to the town's general lack of interest in the team (or sport in this case).

 

[Jai]

Plus unlike us Wigan have about 20 other clubs within 30 miles of them.

 

[mrsblue]

A club's natural level is really just a function of the size of its crowd. The more people that come to watch the more money you'll make. The more money you make the more you can afford to pay players. The more you pay players to better players you'll attract.

We can't compete with Championship clubs let alone Premiership clubs at Roots Hall. Without further development even FF will only really give us a shot at the Championship.

For us to be a success and move our natural level up a notch we need a new stadium. The Southend conurbation is the same size as, if not bigger than, Middlesbrough. We therefore have the potential to move our natural level should FF ever get built.

Football is imo not so much the level of crowd support,it's about financial backing by the owners.

Portsmouth have crowds we dream of yet they are mid table in our league.


FF will not guarantee success(if ever built).

 

[Jam_Man]

Football is imo not so much the level of crowd support,it's about financial backing by the owners.

Portsmouth have crowds we dream of yet they are mid table in our league.


FF will not guarantee success(if ever built).

They are linked. Owners are far more likely to financially back a bigger club than a smaller one so having a big crowd base will attract investment.

A club with big support will be generally have more potential financially than one with small support. You will get the likes of Portsmouth who hit bad times and through bad management go down, but because they are a big club they have the potential there to build on again.

FF wont guarantee success, nothing can, but it gives a better foundation for it.

 

[MK Shrimper]

It's all a bit of a mixture IMHO. There are big clubs and then there are those with bucket loads of history who will always be at the top of the pile, as that history attracts investment & big name players.

We could have several billion thrown at us by Sheikh Urbooty but I still say we'd never dominate football like the huge clubs.

....and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[londonblue]

Football is imo not so much the level of crowd support,it's about financial backing by the owners.
Portsmouth have crowds we dream of yet they are mid table in our league.


FF will not guarantee success(if ever built).

There is some truth in that. Fleetwood and Col Ewe being recent examples. A more extreme example was Rushden and Diamonds. But, once they money is withdrawn (in the case of Col Ewe and Rushden and Diamonds) the club are then reliant on their other income streams. The financial backing really just allows a club to rise above its natural level for the period of time the money is available.

To sustain a higher natural level you need to grow your crowd base. Even with FF it will take time. I'm not a big fan of RM, but I would rather we had FF, and greater income streams (assuming FF gives SUFC greater income rather than just RM), which will allow us to grow organically. We will therefore not be reliant on one individual, which isn't sustainable.

 

[RobM]

Why do so many people see the new stadium as the answer to all our troubles? Didn't do Darlington any good, did it?

Simple isn't it? 22,000 seater, play 442 - job sorted!

 

[Liam AAS]

Games like football manager mean my expectations of Southend United are never going to be met. Until our youth team is churning out champions league winning players we'll never be finished.

 

[manor15]

Swansea are the best example, just look at them since they've been at the Liberty.

They have had big investment but no Russian oligarchs or Sheikhs or anything like that, they've just been sensible. Was speaking to a Swansea fan the other day and they said that of the money they got for Bony, they know they'll be more or less mid-table this season and have a few other decent strikers in the squad so are waiting until summer to replace Bony to get a player cheaper. Then apparently about half the money will be reinvested in the squad and the other half is going on facilities, the youths, backroom staff and improvements. Their growth hasn't been the most spectacular but it's been sustainable, and they don't look particularly out of place in the Premiership and I wouldn't be surprised to see them competing for Europe in the next couple of years.

 

[mrsblue]

Swansea are the best example, just look at them since they've been at the Liberty.

They have had big investment but no Russian oligarchs or Sheikhs or anything like that, they've just been sensible. Was speaking to a Swansea fan the other day and they said that of the money they got for Bony, they know they'll be more or less mid-table this season and have a few other decent strikers in the squad so are waiting until summer to replace Bony to get a player cheaper. Then apparently about half the money will be reinvested in the squad and the other half is going on facilities, the youths, backroom staff and improvements. Their growth hasn't been the most spectacular but it's been sustainable, and they don't look particularly out of place in the Premiership and I wouldn't be surprised to see them competing for Europe in the next couple of years.

Swansea Imo will eventually be relegated within the next 3 seasons.

The prem is designed to have 3 mini leagues the top 6/7 will always be just that,then the mid table bunch and finally strugglers battling to remain.

Swansea have indeed been superb and I wish them the very best but sadly the moneybags will mostly live on.

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

Talking about Burnley, I remember them having to win on the last day to stay in the league a few years back.

Luckily they were playing Orient!

86/87. Older fans often talk about that game with misty-eyed enthusiasm. If Orient had've picked up the win we would have made the playoffs and relegated Burnley at the same time, yet never has anyone ever been so pleased to lose a game. The general consensus from fans (and the couple of players I've spoken to) was that had we won there, no-one would have got out alive. Sarfend got promoted in third that season, of course.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Swansea Imo will eventually be relegated within the next 3 seasons.

The prem is designed to have 3 mini leagues the top 6/7 will always be just that,then the mid table bunch and finally strugglers battling to remain.

Swansea have indeed been superb and I wish them the very best but sadly the moneybags will mostly live on.

No reason why Swansea can't stay in that middle third for a good while yet.

 

[twobob]

I agree with the initial statement on the whole and the Premier league has made it harder for small clubs to aspire to the top flight. I think the days of clubs like Wimbledon & Northampton making the top flight without investment or a change of stadium are gone.

I read somewhere that a change of stadium does have a beneficial effect but that does not last if the club fails to progress pretty much immediately. I think this probably true and clubs like Reading & Hull are good examples.

Clubs like ours are unlikely to established top division clubs but it is not beyond the realms of posibility that we could be challenging for promotionto the Premier, like Brentford. Clubs like Southampton, Ipswich, Norwich, QPR, Crystal Palace and Swansea were established division 3 clubs in the 50s and they have all spent a resonable amount of time in the top division over the years so just because it is unlikely doesn't mean you shouldn't try. After all, some the pleasure of football is dreaming of achieving the unlikely.

 

[usa_shrimper]

Agree with twobob, its about dreaming.......following lower league teams is like buying lottery tickets every week, you know your unlikely ever to hit the jackpot but we all dream that maybe one day we will. We have all dreamt about spending the money... In football we know our team is a lower league team but doesn't stop us from believing that we can go further up the leagues into the promise land.........never stop believing (dreaming)

 

[AndyT]

86/87. Older fans often talk about that game with misty-eyed enthusiasm. If Orient had've picked up the win we would have made the playoffs and relegated Burnley at the same time, yet never has anyone ever been so pleased to lose a game. The general consensus from fans (and the couple of players I've spoken to) was that had we won there, no-one would have got out alive. Sarfend got promoted in third that season, of course.

I remember the game, though can't recall who got relegated instead, but I didn't realize that if Orient has won it was a big game for your guys, as well.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Wigan has always been a rugby town with the football club playing second fiddle,even in their premiership heyday the crowds on average were pretty poor.

Whelan pumped millions into the football club yet the public only rarely got behind the team with large crowds namely against the big clubs.The prem money has gone with the prem parachute payment following suit.The owners have the dilemma of making cash with the rugby or supplementing the football club.

Whelan did his bit but it looks all over to me.

Wigan is a rugby league town? Thanks for the insight there.

Anyway, over in what respect? Wigan Athletic returning to being a third/fourth tier concern? Or over as in properly over?

The former I would say yes, the latter not for a very long time if it all.

 

[mrsblue]

Wigan is a rugby league town? Thanks for the insight there.

Anyway, over in what respect? Wigan Athletic returning to being a third/fourth tier concern? Or over as in properly over?

The former I would say yes, the latter not for a very long time if it all.

They probably said the same when Wimbledon won the FA cup !

Anyway good luck to Wigan.