Clubs always return to their natural level

[AndyT]

I always look at someone like Brighton as a comparable club to us in a lot of ways.

I'm not sure what sort of crowds they got when they were in the fourth tier, but in the Championship, they are getting about 23,000 per home game now that they have the new ground.

As 'Uptheshrimpers' said, above, an average home crowd of around 15,000 (including away fans) would be possible I would think.

 

[londonblue]

Erm we averaged OVER 10k if I remember rightly!

That's not far off capacity given the amount of seats lost to segregation.

 

[Sowfend Not Sarfend]

I always look at someone like Brighton as a comparable club to us in a lot of ways.

I'm not sure what sort of crowds they got when they were in the fourth tier, but in the Championship, they are getting about 23,000 per home game now that they have the new ground.

As 'Uptheshrimpers' said, above, an average home crowd of around 15,000 (including away fans) would be possible I would think.

I would love to believe we are same size a club as Brighton but when you look further back to crowds they had in 50s, 60s and 70s they have historically been able to attract average crowds far higher than we ever have.
I accept we have the catchment population of a decent sized Championship but I remain sceptical as to how we will ever convert them into regular Southend supporters. The 'we took 33k to Wembley' doesnt do it for me either as Walsall took 29k this year and a few years back Shrewsbury took 40k. Sincerely hope I'm too cynical on this though.

 

[AndyT]

I did look back at the season we played them at the Goldstone, just after we were promoted to the second tier under Webby and at their place, the crowd was only 7,000 odd. In fact, there was a bigger crowd at the match at RH that season.

It's generally a lot to do with season ticket sales, so if we pitch this right and can attract close to 8,000-9,000 season tickets, then the rest will make it for it with away support and floaters.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

I would love to believe we are same size a club as Brighton but when you look further back to crowds they had in 50s, 60s and 70s they have historically been able to attract average crowds far higher than we ever have.
.

Back in the 70's when we were both in the 3rd Division, they averaged more than double what we did. Only time they had low crowds was when they were playing at the Withdean stadium(?), after losing the Goldstone Ground, as it only held 6-7,000.

 

[AndyT]

Fair comment, but why would that be.

The set-ups are virtually the same : Distance to London, catchment area, league status (generally), demographics of population.

At Championship level, I reckon we would be a few off of them on average, yes, but 15,000 is definitely achievable.

 

[AndyT]

I did look back at the season we played them at the Goldstone, just after we were promoted to the second tier under Webby and at their place, the crowd was only 7,000 odd. In fact, there was a bigger crowd at the match at RH that season.

It's generally a lot to do with season ticket sales, so if we pitch this right and can attract close to 8,000-9,000 season tickets, then the rest will make it for it with away support and floaters.

Correction : Roots Hall 6,303
Goldstone 8,279

 

[Jai]

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if you look at history then we are a 4th division club. End of.

That's history though. The game has changed beyond recognition in the past 20 years. People grew up supporting Southend as their second team because it was easy to travel to London and walk in to their favourite club's ground and pay very little for the privilege. Not now. Kids growing up in Southend today will not find it as easy to chase the bright lights of the London clubs. It should be easier to attract fans now, and we have a massive pool of population to target. There's about 750,000 people living within a 20-minute drive of Roots Hall.

 

[AndyT]

Spot on.'Jai'.

 

[Uncle Leo]

That's history though. The game has changed beyond recognition in the past 20 years. People grew up supporting Southend as their second team because it was easy to travel to London and walk in to their favourite club's ground and pay very little for the privilege. Not now. Kids growing up in Southend today will not find it as easy to chase the bright lights of the London clubs. It should be easier to attract fans now, and we have a massive pool of population to target. There's about 750,000 people living within a 20-minute drive of Roots Hall.

That's the positive spin. Not saying I disagree with you, but the other side of the coin is that with so much football on the telly nowadays, kids have the option of seeing the team of their choice 20+ times a season without leaving their house.

This is clearly A Bad Thing, but will be the way lots choose to go.

 

[Jai]

Fair point. I suppose it depends how many of them go looking for a proper matchday experience.

Plus another thing is certainly true - not many people want to watch 4th division football. If we're ever going to find out what potential we have we need to start being successful on the pitch.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Fair point. I suppose it depends how many of them go looking for a proper matchday experience.

And that is what needs to be encouraged. A group of 13 year olds can't just rock up to a top flight game any more, but we can still offer that. Although having goal music shouldn't be part of that matchday experience.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

That's history though. The game has changed beyond recognition in the past 20 years. People grew up supporting Southend as their second team because it was easy to travel to London and walk in to their favourite club's ground and pay very little for the privilege. Not now. Kids growing up in Southend today will not find it as easy to chase the bright lights of the London clubs. It should be easier to attract fans now, and we have a massive pool of population to target. There's about 750,000 people living within a 20-minute drive of Roots Hall.

I don't disagree with you at all.

I completely agree that our "potential" to sustain a higher level is there more than team like (dare I say it) Morecambe.

I was only commenting really on the title of our "natural level" - which you can only use history to establish any sort of fact, or trend at least, and that is that we've spent the vast majority of our history in the 4th division.

I honestly believe that we have the fan base potential to be a mid to low table Championship club (if we were run properly). The unfortunate reality however, is that one very bad season which saw us relegated from league 2 (a fate Northampton very nearly suffered last season) would ultimately see us go out of business.

Fine lines...

 

[AndyT]

... Indeed, especially when it's 'Tom Hark' .. 'Uncle Leo'!

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Fair point. I suppose it depends how many of them go looking for a proper matchday experience.

Plus another thing is certainly true - not many people want to watch 4th division football. If we're ever going to find out what potential we have we need to start being successful on the pitch.

And that is what needs to be encouraged. A group of 13 year olds can't just rock up to a top flight game any more, but we can still offer that. Although having goal music shouldn't be part of that matchday experience.

Exactly right chaps.

Growing up, I loved that I could turn up at the ground at 14:57 and buy a ticket and sit in the same seat every week with my mates.

I used to pass Roots Hall on the bus twice a day to and from school, and I loved that. I guess it is all down to personality though. I'd much rather that, and going every week as a kid compared to those who "supported" Man U etc

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Fair point. I suppose it depends how many of them go looking for a proper matchday experience.

Plus another thing is certainly true - not many people want to watch 4th division football. If we're ever going to find out what potential we have we need to start being successful on the pitch.

It doesn't have to be so much successful as entertaining.

We've a decent chance of getting promoted this season but it's not going to be attracting people to come back.

 

[Jam_Man]

We get less than 4000 on a bad day and even when we got into the championship we rarely broke 10,000. Love the club though I do, if we build a 20,000 plus stadium we'll be playing to somewhere between 25% and 50% like Wigan.

We'd see a rise in PROFIT? We'd see a rise in INCOME certainly but would it offset the rise in COST?

How often have we had under 4,000 for a league game in the last 10 years?! No more than once or twice Im sure.

We averaged 6,000 last season and as pointed out already we averaged over 10,000 in the Championship and the home ends were pretty much sold most games.

20,000 is too big, but you are underestimating our current support let alone our potential support in a new stadium.

As for profit if you re-read my post, I said profile. :smile: