Clubs always return to their natural level

[Shrimper2thecore]

I've always thought so, and agree if you look at our history lower L1 should be our natural position. Smaller clubs who appear to have established themselves at a higher level are few & far between. Wigan did it for a few years, Reading are still there, but it's taken very rich owners to keep them there. Bournemouth are a very well managed club but none the less are propped up by outside money and I'll bet 10 years from now they'll be back in L1 or L2.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if you look at history then we are a 4th division club. End of.

 

[Sowfend Not Sarfend]

Glad to see so many people appreciated my original post. Whilst I go along with the views that there are many factors that can affect a clubs fortunes including rich owners, new stadiums and catchment population, there also does seem to be something about history and tradition that shouldn't be overlooked. For example, comparisons between us and Swansea overlook the fact that Swansea had previously spent many seasons in the second tier attracting average crowds in the 15,000 -20,000 range whereas our best ever season's average is around 12,000 I think.
I'm sure many people on here will be aware of the admirable sufcdatabase http://sufcdb.co.uk/ but one that gives history and average crowds for all clubs and is statto heaven is http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/index1.htm

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The current club that is showing how (Howe!) it can & should be done is Bournemouth; they are in outer orbit they are so much higher than any reasonable expectations or cost studies could estimate.
They have had backers and sold a few names for large (not huge) monies & have a stable and no big egos squad who are organised and work double shifts for each other.
To be a Cherries fan at present (or a griffin) must be superb.

 

[AndyT]

Yep, really want Bournemouth to make it this year and Brentford through the play-offs. One in the eye for the fancy dans.

I always think a club like Plymouth Argyle should be better than they are, if they just sorted themselves out.

Huge fan base and smart stadium, but they've been hanging on to league status the last few seasons.

 

[mrsblue]

The current club that is showing how (Howe!) it can & should be done is Bournemouth; they are in outer orbit they are so much higher than any reasonable expectations or cost studies could estimate.
They have had backers and sold a few names for large (not huge) monies & have a stable and no big egos squad who are organised and work double shifts for each other.
To be a Cherries fan at present (or a griffin) must be superb.

The Cherries are fun to watch and the fans must be pinching themselves at the salivating football on offer,Howe has blown me away with his attacking philosophy and puts many of the top flight managers into the shade.

Can they make the 100 goals mark?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I've always thought so, and agree if you look at our history lower L1 should be our natural position. Smaller clubs who appear to have established themselves at a higher level are few & far between. Wigan did it for a few years, Reading are still there, but it's taken very rich owners to keep them there. Bournemouth are a very well managed club but none the less are propped up by outside money and I'll bet 10 years from now they'll be back in L1 or L2.

The other factor that needs to be weighed in is Southend has grown whilst all those northern **** holes (if you'll excuse the tautology) have declined.

Swansea are the best example, just look at them since they've been at the Liberty.

They have had big investment but no Russian oligarchs or Sheikhs or anything like that, they've just been sensible. Was speaking to a Swansea fan the other day and they said that of the money they got for Bony, they know they'll be more or less mid-table this season and have a few other decent strikers in the squad so are waiting until summer to replace Bony to get a player cheaper. Then apparently about half the money will be reinvested in the squad and the other half is going on facilities, the youths, backroom staff and improvements. Their growth hasn't been the most spectacular but it's been sustainable, and they don't look particularly out of place in the Premiership and I wouldn't be surprised to see them competing for Europe in the next couple of years.

I think Swansea have gone from 4th division to 1st division twice now.

Yep, really want Bournemouth to make it this year and Brentford through the play-offs. One in the eye for the fancy dans.

I always think a club like Plymouth Argyle should be better than they are, if they just sorted themselves out.

Huge fan base and smart stadium, but they've been hanging on to league status the last few seasons.

Haven't Bournemouth and Brentford been bankrolled to some extent though? Obviously you still need to win the games (cf with Derby under Lionel Pickering, Wolves under Jack Hayward etc)

 

[RHB]

Swansea Imo will eventually be relegated within the next 3 seasons.

The prem is designed to have 3 mini leagues the top 6/7 will always be just that,then the mid table bunch and finally strugglers battling to remain.

Swansea have indeed been superb and I wish them the very best but sadly the moneybags will mostly live on.

No reason why Swansea can't stay in that middle third for a good while yet.

I think Swansea will stay up because they are sensibly run. However, a thought occurs to me, if Swansea need a new fast young forward next season, we could offer them Williams cos he has a welsh sounding name. We could make a fortune!!

 

[Uncle Leo]

I always think a club like Plymouth Argyle should be better than they are, if they just sorted themselves out.

Huge fan base and smart stadium, but they've been hanging on to league status the last few seasons.

Biggest English town, with a Football League club, that has never been in the top flight. Their fans like being reminded of that.

 

[Sowfend Not Sarfend]

Biggest English town, with a Football League club, that has never been in the top flight. Their fans like being reminded of that.

I think their location must be a factor in Plymouth's underachievements. Lots of travelling costs and not easy to attract players.

 

[londonblue]

I think their location must be a factor in Plymouth's underachievements. Lots of travelling costs and not easy to attract players.

Not to mention a lot of travelling full stop.

 

[wakes123]

Who cares? You just support the team and hope they win.

 

[rlb999]

We dont get 4,000 at Roots Hall and we would certainly see a rise in profile should it be built.

We get less than 4000 on a bad day and even when we got into the championship we rarely broke 10,000. Love the club though I do, if we build a 20,000 plus stadium we'll be playing to somewhere between 25% and 50% like Wigan.

We'd see a rise in PROFIT? We'd see a rise in INCOME certainly but would it offset the rise in COST?

 

[Uncle Leo]

I think their location must be a factor in Plymouth's underachievements. Lots of travelling costs and not easy to attract players.

Not to mention a lot of travelling full stop.

Both fair points. Around the early 2000s, Plymouth went two years without winning a league game outside of Devon!

 

[undercovershrimper]

Plus unlike us Wigan have about 20 other clubs within 30 miles of them.

Including two of the biggest in the land attendance wise

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

We get less than 4000 on a bad day and even when we got into the championship we rarely broke 10,000. Love the club though I do, if we build a 20,000 plus stadium we'll be playing to somewhere between 25% and 50% like Wigan.

We'd see a rise in PROFIT? We'd see a rise in INCOME certainly but would it offset the rise in COST?

That doesn't necessarily mean the support wasn't there. Let's be frank the view at Rootshall is shocking, particularly from the west stand with all the poles in the way. Now if we were getting close to 10,000 it implies all the best seats were sold, who on earth would spend the same amount of money to sit behind a pole and see nothing.

Moving to better facilities would surely automatically attract more fans, especially when they want to bring their kids and feel comfortable.

Now I am not saying an extra 10,000 people will turn up because we are in a new venue but it does make people think twice when you know your are going to a game in comfort. I mean let's face it, what kind of crowds were Swansea getting in their old stadium and now look at their crowds at the liberty.

People are trying to use Wigan as an analogy but your talking about a very small rugby town with huge clubs on their doorstep. We are a huge catchment area that in time could attract a lot more fans.
Success will always attract followers, lets not forget we attracted 32,000 people to go to Wembley.

 

[BrettieAngell]

even when we got into the championship we rarely broke 10,000.

Erm we averaged OVER 10k if I remember rightly!

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Clubs like ours are unlikely to established top division clubs but it is not beyond the realms of posibility that we could be challenging for promotionto the Premier, like Brentford..

And maybe if Vic Jobson had backed Webby in 91 when he wanted a couple more players when we were top 3, and Judas had'nt walked out in 93, again when we were challenging, we'd have made it. (Albeit for 1 season).

 

[Uncle Leo]

Erm we averaged OVER 10k if I remember rightly!

10,014 according to a quick visit here - http://sufcdb.co.uk/results.php?y=2006

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

We get less than 4000 on a bad day and even when we got into the championship we rarely broke 10,000. Love the club though I do, if we build a 20,000 plus stadium we'll be playing to somewhere between 25% and 50% like Wigan.

We'd see a rise in PROFIT? We'd see a rise in INCOME certainly but would it offset the rise in COST?

We have only had 2 league crowds below 4,000 in the last 10 seasons.

As has already been pointed out our average in the Championship season was 10,014 and home capacity that season was running at near 95%.
Had we had the room, we would have had much bigger league crowds against Norwich, Ipswich, Southampton, Derby, Crystal Palace, QPR, Leicester, Leeds & maybe even Colchester. Several of those games could have been potential 15,000+ crowds.

I'm not saying the demand would be as great now if we ever did get back to the Championship but it wont be far of it.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Lets not also forget even if the miracle of FF happens, and we build a 22,000 seater stadium, we are not actually obliged to fill all the seats, we are allowed to let in away fans too you know. Obviously upon the construction of the said stadium we would ideally be in the championship, a lot of away followings in the championship would fill at least 2,000 seats in the away end, some games even up to 5,000.