Cricket Book

[Yorkshire Blue]

1, The best XI of all time. I've got my own ideas, but I live in fear of the book coming out and someone saying, 'Why did you leave out Don Bradman, was that deliberate?' Obviously, the Don is in, but you know what I mean.

Bradman is probably the only player who everyone will include in their world XI

1. WG Grace - the original cricketing superstar read CLJ James on his impact on the game.
2. WR Hammond - 7249 runs at 58.45, no-one has scored more runs at a higher average (the 8th highest of all time)
3. GA Headley - Bradman was only the white Headley. 3rd best average of all time (60.83) and he carried the WIndies batting line up for many a year
4. DG Bradman - test average of 99.94, would have been 100 but he got bowled by Eric Hollies googly, when only needing 4 runs
5. BC Lara - twice broke the world record test score and also holds the record first class score. 11,000+ runs at over 50.
6. GS Sobers - arguably the greatest all-rounder ever. His first century in test cricket was 365*. Could bat, bowl fast medium, finger and leg spin, and was a great fielder. 9th highest test average of all time plus over 200 test wickets
7. K Sangakkara - controversial one, but for my money the best batsman-keeper the game has known (ahead of A. Flower rather than Gilchrist) and he kept beautifully to Murali for years, although now concentrates on his batting
8. IT Botham - my sporting hero, but for my money the most explosive cricketer of all time, who won test matches (and series) with both bat and ball, often from improbable positions. My favourite cricket stat is that in nearly 2000 test matches, a player has only scored a hundred and taken 5 wickets in an innings on 26 occasions. Five of these were Beefy (no-one else has done it more than twice). If this wasn't the greatest all-round performance ever, I'd like to know what was.
9. MD Marshall - 376 wickets at 20.94. No-one has taken more wickets, so cheaply. That is sustained brilliance.
10. GD McGrath - 563 wickets at 21.64. Was the best player in probably the best side of all time.
11. M Muralitharan - 770 wickets at 22.18, yeah most will go for Warne, but Murali carried Sri Lanka for years and still took his wickets far cheaper.

Honourable mentions to the likes of Hobbs, Hutton, Sutcliffe, Gooch, Boycott, Morris, Barry Richards, Graeme (and indeed Shaun) Pollock, Walcott, Weekes, Worrell, Ponting, Yousef, Greg Chappell, Tendulkar, Miandad, Gavaskar, A. Flower, S, Waugh, Simpson, Lloyd, M. Crowe, A. Gilchrist, Kapil Dev, Imran Khan, R. Hadlee, Miller, A. Roberts, C. Ambrose, Garner, Trueman, Barnes, Spofforth, Lindwall, Holding, Wasim and Waqar, Lillee etc

Probably not to popular an XI in India, Pakistan and South Africa.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Great XI Matt. I've given this some thought and here's mine.

1. Sir Jack Hobbs - scorer of an all time record 197 first class centuries, rejected by Essex :stunned: before joining Surrey before WWII, and was still playing well into his 40's.

2. Victor Trumper - Australian, Trumper played very few test matches, but was mooted as one of the finest batsmen ever. There's a classic photo of him leaping out of his crease to execute a drive. Died very young and had what amounted to a state funeral in Sydney.

3. Sir Donald Bradman & Captain - The Don, IMO the greatest sportsman of any age of any sport. 117 first class centuries, including a then world record 452*. A test average of 99.94, bowled for a duck by Eric Hollies at his last appearance at the Oval in 1948 when a boundary would have given him an average of 100+. It was said he had a tear in his eye at the reception he got walking in, don't believe Bradman was the achetypal flinty eyed recalcitrant convict.

4. Brian Lara - The only modern day player who would make this line up, a true great with incredible powers of concetration. His first test century was 277 against Australia in Sydney. Who was to know that was to follow? 375 v England at St Johns to be feted by the great Sir Garfield himself. He then surpassed himself by taking his record back from bully boy Hayden with an amazing 400* v England again at St Johns. Also holder of the highest first class score of 501*.

5. Keith Miller - Spitfire pilot and WWII hero, my uncles saw him play and I am told he was truly amazing. He could hit the ball further than most go on their holidays, and bowl express pace, was also a brilliant fielder. Notably at Southchurch in 1948 when the Aussies piled up 721 in the day, Miller was bored with the procedings and allowed Trevor Bailey to bowl him first ball.

6. Sir Garfield Sobers - The greatest all rounder, he could do the lot, brillaint batsman, outstanding fielder. Could bowl left arm fast, orthodox & leg spin. Held the test best score of 365* for nearly 40 years before being beaten by Lara in 1994.

7. Adam Gilchrist - quite simply incredible, probably not the greatest keeper but coming in at 7 and smashing world class attacks to all parts was absolutely amazing. In any other side he would have been a shoo in in the top 6.

8. Sir Ian Botham - The outstanding English all rounder, his ability to thrash any attack when in the mood was breathtaking, who'll ever forget Headingly 1981. His bowling was excellent, he initially looked like a normal county pie thrower when he first started out but his elevation to the England team just added yards of pace to him. Brilliant at slip and crusher of the convicts.

9. Shane Warne - Lard arse blonde headed beach boy bugger, but what a bowler and competitor. IMO the greatest spinner of them all, the "Gatting ball" probably made him a legend but he was more than that. The only downside was his ban for taking his mummy's medicine.

10. Dennis Lillee - The best fast bowler I have ever seen just surpassing Malcolm Marshall for me. He suffered a serious back injury early in his career and he needed to rebuild his whole action thereafter. The fact he did and came back the stronger & the wilier for it is to his credit. His average of 5 wickets per test match is also outstanding.

11. Harold Larwood - I've opted for Larwood simply because of the "Bodyline Tour" of 1932/33. But he was apparently lightening fast, and formed Notts spearhead in that series with Bill Voce. He seemed to take most of the blame for bodyline aside from DR Jardine and rarely played for England again.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Or Graham Thorpe....


Incidentally, I can't argue much with canveyshrimper's XI. What a line-up.

Barry Richards is an interesting one in that due to being a Seth African he was all but lost to Test cricket during their exile, but any books I have read about that era have him down as an absolute legend.

Thanks James, Barry Richards was just an amazing batsman, I saw him take 176 off Essex at Chalkwell Park. He was elegant with all the shots, tall with flowing blonde locks, your average adonis I guess. We share a birthday fortunately I'm younger. The loss to Test cricket of Richards, Graeme Pollock, Eddie Barlow, Mike Procter & Dennis Lindsay was a shame but we all know the South African political stance of that age.

Richards grew bored of mundane cricket and retired very young, now a respected broadcaster.

 

[canveyshrimper]

There was a good sledge from warne and Healy regarding Nasser.

Went something along the lines of

Healy "Shouldn't we have a fielder under his nose".

Warnie "Yeah, good idea"

Warne then proceeds to place a fielder about 10 yds away from the bat :)

One of the best was by Viv Richards toward Glamorgan and England fast bowler Greg Thomas.

Thomas bowled a few at Richards which the great man played and missed, to which Thomas piped up "It's red, it's round and it's got a seam"

Richards then smashed the next ball clean out of St. Johns and retorted "You know what it ****ing looks like go and ****ing find it"

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Great XI Matt. I've given this some thought and here's mine.

1. Sir Jack Hobbs - scorer of an all time record 197 first class centuries, rejected by Essex :stunned: before joining Surrey before WWII, and was still playing well into his 40's.

2. Victor Trumper - Australian, Trumper played very few test matches, but was mooted as one of the finest batsmen ever. There's a classic photo of him leaping out of his crease to execute a drive. Died very young and had what amounted to a state funeral in Sydney.

3. Sir Donald Bradman & Captain - The Don, IMO the greatest sportsman of any age of any sport. 117 first class centuries, including a then world record 452*. A test average of 99.94, bowled for a duck by Eric Hollies at his last appearance at the Oval in 1948 when a boundary would have given him an average of 100+. It was said he had a tear in his eye at the reception he got walking in, don't believe Bradman was the achetypal flinty eyed recalcitrant convict.

4. Brian Lara - The only modern day player who would make this line up, a true great with incredible powers of concetration. His first test century was 277 against Australia in Sydney. Who was to know that was to follow? 375 v England at St Johns to be feted by the great Sir Garfield himself. He then surpassed himself by taking his record back from bully boy Hayden with an amazing 400* v England again at St Johns. Also holder of the highest first class score of 501*.

5. Keith Miller - Spitfire pilot and WWII hero, my uncles saw him play and I am told he was truly amazing. He could hit the ball further than most go on their holidays, and bowl express pace, was also a brilliant fielder. Notably at Southchurch in 1948 when the Aussies piled up 721 in the day, Miller was bored with the procedings and allowed Trevor Bailey to bowl him first ball.

6. Sir Garfield Sobers - The greatest all rounder, he could do the lot, brillaint batsman, outstanding fielder. Could bowl left arm fast, orthodox & leg spin. Held the test best score of 365* for nearly 40 years before being beaten by Lara in 1994.

7. Adam Gilchrist - quite simply incredible, probably not the greatest keeper but coming in at 7 and smashing world class attacks to all parts was absolutely amazing. In any other side he would have been a shoo in in the top 6.

8. Sir Ian Botham - The outstanding English all rounder, his ability to thrash any attack when in the mood was breathtaking, who'll ever forget Headingly 1981. His bowling was excellent, he initially looked like a normal county pie thrower when he first started out but his elevation to the England team just added yards of pace to him. Brilliant at slip and crusher of the convicts.

9. Shane Warne - Lard arse blonde headed beach boy bugger, but what a bowler and competitor. IMO the greatest spinner of them all, the "Gatting ball" probably made him a legend but he was more than that. The only downside was his ban for taking his mummy's medicine.

10. Dennis Lillee - The best fast bowler I have ever seen just surpassing Malcolm Marshall for me. He suffered a serious back injury early in his career and he needed to rebuild his whole action thereafter. The fact he did and came back the stronger & the wilier for it is to his credit. His average of 5 wickets per test match is also outstanding.

11. Harold Larwood - I've opted for Larwood simply because of the "Bodyline Tour" of 1932/33. But he was apparently lightening fast, and formed Notts spearhead in that series with Bill Voce. He seemed to take most of the blame for bodyline aside from DR Jardine and rarely played for England again.

Interesting line-up, especially from someone whose had the advantage of watching more live cricket than I have.

I originally had Hobbs in my XI, but thought I just had to include Hammond for all those runs. Can't believe I didn't mention Trumper, although like Grace, he's difficult to place.

Gilchrist and Warne I can talk authoritatively about, having watched a fair bit of both careers. Both are great cricketers, but I think their reputation is based upon their impact on their roles, rather than their performances. Sangakkara is a better batsman than Gilchrist and IMO a better keeper as well. Gilchrist redefined the role of a keeper (although he was not the first batsman-keeper, the debate has raged for years) and he played some match changing innings, but I can't see how I can justify picking him when I consider Sangakkara better in both disciplines.

Likewise I think Murali is a better bowler than Warne. Both Kumar and Murali have better test records than Gilly and the mommies pill-popping text-pest, so I don't think it was my eyes deceiving me. Murali took his wickets 3 runs cheaper than Warne, that's a huge difference. Warne and Gilchrist get the love because they played for Australia (and because Murali chucks it), but they were inferior cricketers to the Sri Lankan duo. Like Miller, I think they had a lot of substance, but I think it is their style which gets them the nod in a lot of people's team. I'm hardly one to speak having picked Beefy though.

ps If I was going for an English bowler, I think I'd go for Trueman over Larwood, although Larwood (and also Tyson) was clearly class.

Thanks James, Barry Richards was just an amazing batsman, I saw him take 176 off Essex at Chalkwell Park. He was elegant with all the shots, tall with flowing blonde locks, your average adonis I guess. We share a birthday fortunately I'm younger. The loss to Test cricket of Richards, Graeme Pollock, Eddie Barlow, Mike Procter & Dennis Lindsay was a shame but we all know the South African political stance of that age.

Richards grew bored of mundane cricket and retired very young, now a respected broadcaster.

I didn't include any Seth Africans in my line-up. The likes of Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock might have made it - Pollock's got the second best test average of all time, but ultimately he didn't prove it over a sustained period in test cricket. I look at someone like Hick who murdered county attacks or someone like Michael Hussey who got off to a flier in test cricket at one time they looked like good shouts for an all-time XI, but they never fulfilled their promise. But for apartheid they may have made it, but when up against the likes of Headley, Bradman and Lara who there are no question marks over what might have been, because their records are incredible over a sustained period, I've got to go for those who there are no question marks over quite how brilliant they were.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Best XI's are always a funny subject. Before opting for "Walker" Gilchrist I was actually going to go for Les Ames, possibly the earliest example of the wicket keeper batsman, and a player who scored a century of centuries. As keepers I don't think there is an awful lot of difference between Gilly & Sangakara, and it's interesting that often Sri Lanka have used the other Jayawardene as keeper.

I take your point about Murali, but Warne changed the whole face of cricket, before he came along teams played the WIndies way with a battery of fast bowlers, even India tried to go down this route despite have a more than decent leggy in Anil Kumble. If anything, and I hate to use the word Warne made spin bowling fashionable again, and cricket was better for it. Also with Pigeon McGrath playing in the same team and picking up over 500 wickets Warne had slightly less scope than Murali to take more wickets. Whereas Murali has always been the fulcrum of the Sri Lankan attack.

Larwood & Trueman was a close thing, I remember Trueman taking over 30 wickets in a losing series against the WIndies in 1963 when he was at his peak, that included a 7fer at Edgbaston, and he was easily the best English fast bowler I've ever seen. Larwood from the grainy film I've seen, was seriously quick, and his life story is very interesting, but as I said in my post he gets my vote ourely for helping reduce Bradman to a mere mortal and nearly getting Australia to leave the Commonwealth.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Can I add my own bit of sledging? Probably the only funny thing I've ever said and heard only by about 3 or 4 people.

I was playing for Basildon Thirds a few years ago because they were a few players short. I'm primarily a bowler but this day they were short of batsmen. I went in at number 4, which was ridculous, and pretty soon the bowler was pinging a few quick ones by me.

I was swinging and missing, and after about the 17th time, their bowler, obviously frustrated, came up to me and said "Do you want me to put a bell in it for you?"

I just decided the next ball, whatever it was, I'd go for an off-drive rather than wait for the ball to come to me. As luck would have it, he pitched up at the perfect length for me, without me having much idea of it, and it streaked away for four runs before the fielders even saw it.

I walked down the crease, patting down an imaginary bit of rough, went up to the bowler and said "Ding f***ing dong!"

I really thought he was going to thump me but the umpire, giggling, intervened and said to me "You can dine out on that one tonight."

It still remains the greatest moment of my life.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Best XI's are always a funny subject. Before opting for "Walker" Gilchrist I was actually going to go for Les Ames, possibly the earliest example of the wicket keeper batsman, and a player who scored a century of centuries. As keepers I don't think there is an awful lot of difference between Gilly & Sangakara, and it's interesting that often Sri Lanka have used the other Jayawardene as keeper.

I take your point about Murali, but Warne changed the whole face of cricket, before he came along teams played the WIndies way with a battery of fast bowlers, even India tried to go down this route despite have a more than decent leggy in Anil Kumble. If anything, and I hate to use the word Warne made spin bowling fashionable again, and cricket was better for it. Also with Pigeon McGrath playing in the same team and picking up over 500 wickets Warne had slightly less scope than Murali to take more wickets. Whereas Murali has always been the fulcrum of the Sri Lankan attack.

Actually, I think history might say Murali was the one who revolutionised spin bowling. He was one of the pioneers of the doosra (saqlain was probably ahead of him, but Murali was still an early pioneer). His action may be unique, but his impact is that your Alex Loudons, Gareth Battys, Johan Bothas are trying to bowl doosras in addition to your Mendises, (if that is the plural!), Shoaib Maliks Harbhajans and Saqlains.

How many leggies are there in international cricket at the moment (Mishra, Kaneria), and how many finger spinners who have developed doosras?

I'm not even sure you can say Warne changed the face of cricket: Australia haven't now even got a spinner worthy of the name. Their second best spinner, was a leggie (suggesting they weren't extinct) and a contemporary of Warne. As good as Warne was, if he came on to replace McGrath the pressure dropped. That's one of the main reasons I've got McGrath in my team.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Actually, I think history might say Murali was the one who revolutionised spin bowling. He was one of the pioneers of the doosra (saqlain was probably ahead of him, but Murali was still an early pioneer). His action may be unique, but his impact is that your Alex Loudons, Gareth Battys, Johan Bothas are trying to bowl doosras in addition to your Mendises, (if that is the plural!), Shoaib Maliks Harbhajans and Saqlains.

How many leggies are there in international cricket at the moment (Mishra, Kaneria), and how many finger spinners who have developed doosras?

I'm not even sure you can say Warne changed the face of cricket: Australia haven't now even got a spinner worthy of the name. Their second best spinner, was a leggie (suggesting they weren't extinct) and a contemporary of Warne. As good as Warne was, if he came on to replace McGrath the pressure dropped. That's one of the main reasons I've got McGrath in my team.

Good point about Murali and he may well end up with a 1000 test wickets which may never be surpassed. To be fair to Warne he had more than a fair variety of deliveries in his armoury. (Blimey I can't believe I'm defending a bloody convict:stunned:).

IMO he did change the face of cricket for the reasons I outlined in my original post, prior to Warne there weren't too many spinners in Test cricket, leggies or finger spinners for that matter. Just a battery of quick bowlers, or in England's case medium pace pie throwers.

As far as the current convict spinners go the cupboard is bare, and says little for their much vaunted academy for not developing and bringing forward young spin bowlers.

 

[canveyshrimper]

[/QUOTE]I didn't include any Seth Africans in my line-up. The likes of Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock might have made it - Pollock's got the second best test average of all time, but ultimately he didn't prove it over a sustained period in test cricket. I look at someone like Hick who murdered county attacks or someone like Michael Hussey who got off to a flier in test cricket at one time they looked like good shouts for an all-time XI, but they never fulfilled their promise. But for apartheid they may have made it, but when up against the likes of Headley, Bradman and Lara who there are no question marks over what might have been, because their records are incredible over a sustained period, I've got to go for those who there are no question marks over quite how brilliant they were.[/QUOTE]

Which is the reason why I didn't include any Saffers in my final XI. However I included both Richards & Pollock in the XI of the best players I have seen.

You included Headley in your team yet he actually played fewer tests than Pollock, 22 against 23. The first Test match I saw was at Trent Bridge in 1965 and Pollock scored 125 on a shocker of a pitch, still one of the best innings I've seen in a Test match.

http://content.cricinfo.com/westindies/content/player/52050.html

http://content.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/46772.html

 

[Uncle Leo]

Bradman is probably the only player who everyone will include in their world XI

I reckon Sir Garfield Sobers would make pretty much every list too.

I'll check my 2000 copy of Wisden when I'm back at home, but when they did their vote for the five cricketers of the 20th century, I think each of the 100 voters (all either former Test players or respected commentators such as John Woodcock or CMJ) chose Bradman and all bar one or two contrary sods picked Sobers.

I'll get back to you on that one later....

By the way, I'm loving this thread. Sharing an office in Madrid with three Spaniards and two Scots is hardly conducive to good cricket banter!

 

[Davros]

10 I think.

Bowled
Caught
L.B.W
Stumped
Run Out
Hit Wicket
Hit The Ball Twice
Obstructed The Field
Handled Ball
Timed Out

and I've been out to one of the more obscure ones.......

does 'retired hurt' count as being out?

 

[number11]

Ive not had the cricket watching years of some on here (cricket consciousness started in the late 80's), so whilst I appreciate there have been many many greats who I have not seen, my best XI of players I have watched would be something like (and not much sub continent representation, though Inzaman was in my first pick!);

1. Graham Gooch
2. Michael Slater
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Brian Lara
5. Alan Border
6. Gilchrist
7. Shaun Pollock
8. Wasim Akram (reluctantly)
9. Shane Warne
10. Curtley Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath

I understand YB's comments about Sangakkara, but his average is enhanced by absurd home pitches. I would also guess that Sri Lanka have played Bangladesh more than any then any other nation. Murali v Warne will be an eternal debate. Murali's figures will always stack up better, but Warne has McGrath sharing wickets with him, and with regard to average, Id say people wouldnt look to attack Murali as much as there would be an easier bowler around the corner to get runs from the Sri Lankan attack, whereas Australians great attacks afforded no such let up. Plus Murali throws the ball.

Both would be worthy shouts of all time greatest spinner though.

 

[Slipperduke]

Absolutely superb stuff, gentlemen. I must say, I've enjoyed getting back into cricket. Sky seem to be televising absolutely everything at the moment, so the last month has been marvelous. It's all coming back to me now.

I don't know if it's just that I've overdosed on football in the last two years, but it all seems so much more...civilised...

 

[number11]

Absolutely superb stuff, gentlemen. I must say, I've enjoyed getting back into cricket. Sky seem to be televising absolutely everything at the moment, so the last month has been marvelous. It's all coming back to me now.

I don't know if it's just that I've overdosed on football in the last two years, but it all seems so much more...civilised...

Generally I probably prefer casual cricket watching to football. Unless Southend are playing I can take or leave a lot of the live matches, and havent watched quite a few England games since McLaren started to ruin things, wheareas I love watching test cricket. The whole thing has coverage better than anything football can manage, former players in the commentary box offering genuine insight rather than mere soundbites, and a couple of hours can disappear as you think to yourself 'I'll just watch one more over'...

At the moment though, unfortunately the IPL looms large.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

does 'retired hurt' count as being out?

No, because it would count as a "Not Out" in your averages. Retired Out would count as being out, but can't remember if that counts as a dismissal. (if you know what I mean.)

Edit - Just checked, and it is the 10 I quoted earlier.

 

[Napster]

Generally I probably prefer casual cricket watching to football. Unless Southend are playing I can take or leave a lot of the live matches, and havent watched quite a few England games since McLaren started to ruin things, wheareas I love watching test cricket. The whole thing has coverage better than anything football can manage, former players in the commentary box offering genuine insight rather than mere soundbites, and a couple of hours can disappear as you think to yourself 'I'll just watch one more over'...

At the moment though, unfortunately the IPL looms large.

Just one more over. I know what you mean.

Can I get radio 5 on FM for the Ashes?

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Just one more over. I know what you mean.

Can I get radio 5 on FM for the Ashes?

Nope but a DAB radio will do the trick. I've got a portable one which plugs into my iPod.

 

[Napster]

Nope but a DAB radio will do the trick. I've got a portable one which plugs into my iPod.

How much for one of those jobbies?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

You included Headley in your team yet he actually played fewer tests than Pollock, 22 against 23. The first Test match I saw was at Trent Bridge in 1965 and Pollock scored 125 on a shocker of a pitch, still one of the best innings I've seen in a Test match.

Fewer tests were played back in Headley's era. His fewer tests were over a longer period (not helped by an interruption for WWII in what would have been his prime). That said I didn't realise Pollock played tests over as many years as he did.

Good point about Murali and he may well end up with a 1000 test wickets which may never be surpassed. To be fair to Warne he had more than a fair variety of deliveries in his armoury. (Blimey I can't believe I'm defending a bloody convict:stunned:).

IMO he did change the face of cricket for the reasons I outlined in my original post, prior to Warne there weren't too many spinners in Test cricket, leggies or finger spinners for that matter. Just a battery of quick bowlers, or in England's case medium pace pie throwers.

As far as the current convict spinners go the cupboard is bare, and says little for their much vaunted academy for not developing and bringing forward young spin bowlers.

Spin never died out in Asia. The West Indies carried on playing pace until this decade; occasionally picking Benn is more a reflection on their pace attack these days than on Warne's impact. In Australia pre Warne there was Tim May (and Stuart MacGill was a contemporary), now there's nobody. South Africa weren't playing test cricket pre-Warne, plus their spinners have been crap. Who does that leave? NZ - Dipak Patel opened the bowling in the 1992 World Cup, that was pre-Warne. Warne's biggest impact is probably in England. Ian Salisbury and Chris Schofield won test caps almost entirely down to Warne (although Salisbury was first capped before England had faced Warne) and the current generation of leggies in county cricket (Munday, Beer, Lawson and Rashid (although leg-spin in Asia never died) can probably be attributed to Warne. I think it is a lazy cliche to say Warne changed spin bowling and re-invigorated it and it is a predominantly Anglo-centric or Aussie-patriotic view to say so.

I understand YB's comments about Sangakkara, but his average is enhanced by absurd home pitches. I would also guess that Sri Lanka have played Bangladesh more than any then any other nation. Murali v Warne will be an eternal debate. Murali's figures will always stack up better, but Warne has McGrath sharing wickets with him, and with regard to average, Id say people wouldnt look to attack Murali as much as there would be an easier bowler around the corner to get runs from the Sri Lankan attack, whereas Australians great attacks afforded no such let up. Plus Murali throws the ball.

Both would be worthy shouts of all time greatest spinner though.

Sangakkara's 192 in Hobart was one of the finest innings I've ever seen - up there with Gooch's 154* at Headingley. That wasn't against Bangaldesh and it wasn't in Sri Lanka. His average may well be enhanced by playing a fair number of games at the SCC or against the Bangles but this boy can bat. He averages more than Gilchrist did against South Africa (53 v 47) and India (42 v 27) plus if Sangakkara did pad his average against Bangladesh, he's had to face Australia (41.91) something Gilchrist has never had to do.

As for Murali, I think the fact he played in such a weak attack makes his record all the more impressive. Batsmen seek to just see him off, but he's still taken 800 wickets. Warne benefited from the pressure applied at the other end and from not having to bowl against his own team.