Don't vote for these Twerps

[osymandus]

I agree about Sir Teddy Taylor a bloody good constituency MP. I know a few people who in 1997 wanted the Tories out but wanted to keep Sir Teddy as their MP. They got their wish.

Now if we had a form of PR we could have the likes of a Teddy , then Mo Mowlam , Vince Cable...

 

[steveo]

Now if we had a form of PR we could have the likes of a Teddy , then Mo Mowlam , Vince Cable...

Maggie Thatcher, Norman Tebbit........

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Maggie Thatcher, Norman Tebbit........

If only Steveo. This country needs another kick up the arse.

 

[osymandus]

Maggie Thatcher, Norman Tebbit........

I don't believe Vlad the impaler or Tiamat are capable of sharing do you ?

 

[osymandus]

If only Steveo. This country needs another kick up the arse.

You know its funny. People who criticise those they see as sponging of the state , yet are so ready and willing to give away their own thoughts and idea's when they see what is supposed as a great leader. Rather then a over glorified administrator.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

From their own webiste on how they will look after people who have left teh armed forces

"And we will pilot a follow-up telephone service that will track and monitor veterans’ mental health after they leave the Armed Forces, so that those who are deemed at risk can be referred for treatment."

Of all the reasons you pick as your no.1 reason not to vote Tory, is because they'd pilot a follow-up telephone service to monitor veterans' mental health?

1. It's a pilot system. That means it may or may not be adopted.
2. It is a follow-up service. It isn't therefore the sole programme, it's just an additional tool to identify those in need.
3. It sounds quite sensible to me.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

You know its funny. People who criticise those they see as sponging of the state , yet are so ready and willing to give away their own thoughts and idea's when they see what is supposed as a great leader. Rather then a over glorified administrator.

The reason I am and will always be a Thatcherite is because she wanted everybody to use their own initiative. I think you know me well enough osy to realise that I would never give up my own opinions.

 

[osymandus]

Of all the reasons you pick as your no.1 reason not to vote Tory, is because they'd pilot a follow-up telephone service to monitor veterans' mental health?

1. It's a pilot system. That means it may or may not be adopted.
2. It is a follow-up service. It isn't therefore the sole programme, it's just an additional tool to identify those in need.
3. It sounds quite sensible to me.

It's not in any order of importance ? The purpose of these were to find tucked away parts that people may miss or can't be bothred to read . FRom their most accessible resource .

Actually because its just a telephone scheme and they have been told time and again that ex service men need close observation and psychosocial care to return to civilian life . If teh system is part of it fine as a means to communicate . But to champion it as the best part of "hey look what we do with ex service people ". They don't have listed any other service in place. And this is from their website.

 

[osymandus]

The reason I am and will always be a Thatcherite is because she wanted everybody to use their own initiative. I think you know me well enough osy to realise that I would never give up my own opinions.

But you see thats the thing , she didnt . It was those who shared her world view . And screw those who didn't . That will never help anyone but a small percentile of society as a whole. Im not asking you to we have had and will continue to have (Teddy already mentioned) good caring people who believe in the Conservative mythos .

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

But you see thats the thing , she didnt . It was those who shared her world view . And screw those who didn't . That will never help anyone but a small percentile of society as a whole. Im not asking you to we have had and will continue to have (Teddy already mentioned) good caring people who believe in the Conservative mythos .

Both of the major parties want to keep the 45% of the people who could keep them elected happy - that's not an allegation you can solely level at the Tories. And the 45% that the Conservatives serve are those that make money, pay taxes and generally prop up the loafers in the red corner. You're kidding yourself if you think it's only 'a small percentile' who share Thatcher's world view. That may be so in your social circles, but not in the country at large.

 

[osymandus]

Both of the major parties want to keep the 45% of the people who could keep them elected happy - that's not an allegation you can solely level at the Tories. And the 45% that the Conservatives serve are those that make money, pay taxes and generally prop up the loafers in the red corner. You're kidding yourself if you think it's only 'a small percentile' who share Thatcher's world view. That may be so in your social circles, but not in the country at large.

Thatchers views in the same form as her , it was a small view . But in a more moderate term no of course not .

Those who make the most money are not the problem , those who make it solely for and believe it is the centre of their creation and all those who can't do it or believe in it they way they do are a problem. The world is shaped in their image and that's a very very bad thing. AS Kelvin Makenzie said last week , it wasn't the money that drives them but their own ego's to be the best . Sadly not always with focus or understanding but always with the idea people should know who and what they have done, and make sure no one surpasses them

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's not in any order of importance ? The purpose of these were to find tucked away parts that people may miss or can't be bothred to read . FRom their most accessible resource .

Actually because its just a telephone scheme and they have been told time and again that ex service men need close observation and psychosocial care to return to civilian life . If teh system is part of it fine as a means to communicate . But to champion it as the best part of "hey look what we do with ex service people ". They don't have listed any other service in place. And this is from their website.

I'd wager a guess that if you schedule face to face meetings for ex-soldiers with psychiatrists once they've returned to civvy street, you'd get a slew of missed appointments as the squaddies deny that they need psychiatric help and resent having to give up a morning or afternoon to sit in a waiting room before being asked stupid questions and have more important things to do, like go to work.

Far more effective and less intrusive I'd have thought to pilot a scheme to identify those in need in treatment and concentrate the resources on them.

By calling them you are likely to reach a far higher percentage of ex-squaddies rather than relying on those who (a) book in the first place, and (b) then turn up to appointments for something they don't think they need.

Individual programmes identifying those who need assistance would seem to me to be a far more effective AND cost efficient way of attempting to tackle a problem than a socialist one-size fits all, lets just chuck lots of money at it, approach.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Thatchers views in the same form as her , it was a small view . But in a more moderate term no of course not .

Those who make the most money are not the problem , those who make it solely for and believe it is the centre of their creation and all those who can't do it or believe in it they way they do are a problem. The world is shaped in their image and that's a very very bad thing. AS Kelvin Makenzie said last week , it wasn't the money that drives them but their own ego's to be the best . Sadly not always with focus or understanding but always with the idea people should know who and what they have done, and make sure no one surpasses them

If this country had nobody in it who wanted to make a fast buck it would be sunk without trace. We can't rely on social workers and diversity specialists to keep the wheels of commerce moving.

 

[osymandus]

I'd wager a guess that if you schedule face to face meetings for ex-soldiers with psychiatrists once they've returned to civvy street, you'd get a slew of missed appointments as the squaddies deny that they need psychiatric help and resent having to give up a morning or afternoon to sit in a waiting room before being asked stupid questions and have more important things to do, like go to work.

Far more effective and less intrusive I'd have thought to pilot a scheme to identify those in need in treatment and concentrate the resources on them.

By calling them you are likely to reach a far higher percentage of ex-squaddies rather than relying on those who (a) book in the first place, and (b) then turn up to appointments for something they don't think they need.

Individual programmes identifying those who need assistance would seem to me to be a far more effective AND cost efficient way of attempting to tackle a problem than a socialist one-size fits all, lets just chuck lots of money at it, approach.

Errm thats how psychiatric sessions work . And working is more important that drowning yourself in a substance to the point you no longer feel it and then eventually going postal Individual . I never said a one size fits all system ? (Say like a telephone system for them to call on the off chance those war zone flashbacks return in the dead of night ).

The assessment comes through their career , they have psychatrist in the armed forces now all they need to do is get those already serving or coming out themselfs to continuie that system . Solders talking with solders . Failing that they couch civiy street councillors. They help the old boys networks of ex service men and women so those who have left can have someone to talk about what they went through. If people don't want to go then they want the other big part of this is you cant help someone unless they want it.

If they can afford to recommission trident I'm damn sure they can afford a better after care system for service personnel

 

[osymandus]

If this country had nobody in it who wanted to make a fast buck it would be sunk without trace. We can't rely on social workers and diversity specialists to keep the wheels of commerce moving.

That's not what i said. I said those who are utterly obsessed to the point of disregarding anything that doesn't fit in their world view. Your right we can't but by that logic we can only depend on those with agricultural , engineering and science skills. Between them they would come up with a system to replace the current social economic one.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Errm thats how psychiatric sessions work . And working is more important that drowning yourself in a substance to the point you no longer feel it and then eventually going postal Individual . I never said a one size fits all system ? (Say like a telephone system for them to call on the off chance those war zone flashbacks return in the dead of night ).

The assessment comes through their career , they have psychatrist in the armed forces now all they need to do is get those already serving or coming out themselfs to continuie that system . Solders talking with solders . Failing that they couch civiy street councillors. They help the old boys networks of ex service men and women so those who have left can have someone to talk about what they went through. If people don't want to go then they want the other big part of this is you cant help someone unless they want it.

If they can afford to recommission trident I'm damn sure they can afford a better after care system for service personnel

You are saying that one size fits all, because you're saying that all people need face to face meetings, whereas the Tories are proposing piloting a system to identify those who need face to face meetings, rather than making them mandatory for all ex-soldiers.

I'd be interested in the perspective of any ex-servicemen (or current ones).

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

That's not what i said. I said those who are utterly obsessed to the point of disregarding anything that doesn't fit in their world view. Your right we can't but by that logic we can only depend on those with agricultural , engineering and science skills. Between them they would come up with a system to replace the current social economic one.

We have a wonderful system that works well if big government twerps could leave it the hell alone. It's called capitalism.

 

[osymandus]

You are saying that one size fits all, because you're saying that all people need face to face meetings, whereas the Tories are proposing piloting a system to identify those who need face to face meetings, rather than making them mandatory for all ex-soldiers.

I'd be interested in the perspective of any ex-servicemen (or current ones).

No , they have them anyway in debriefing methods it wouldn't be alien to them. When leaving they have an equivalent of a "exit interview" . I said it as a more sensible inclusion to the phone system which is what the Tories are claiming as their sole system. Review assessments are made about them as i already said through their careers anyway. I may have assumed you already knew how psych reviews worked . Even if its just a telephone call the method is still the same.

 

[osymandus]

We have a wonderful system that works well if big government twerps could leave it the hell alone. It's called capitalism.

Yeah right ok...

 

[Napster]

I'm in a quandary - the Gurkhas are delivering leaflets for the Lib Dems. (Our Lib Dem guy led the campaign with Lumley). Now, it's a one issue campaign, but I'm not going to argue against a Gurkha if he comes knocking...have you seen the size of their knives?