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EURO 2021 FINAL - Italy v England. Sunday 11th July 2021 20:00.

So how will we do against the Italians?


  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .
I don't think anything changed in the second half it had already changed halfway through the first half when the opening frenzy died down a little and the Italians got control of the ball and we spent the next hour or so knackering ourselves chasing them around. They looked a fantastic team who look very capable of beating the record 35 match unbeaten runs of the great Brazil and Spain teams. No shame in getting beaten by a better team. It's when you get beaten by Iceland you've got something to worry about. As for sacking the manager and the torrent of racial abuse on social media to the three lads that missed their penalties it makes you despair.
 
I don't think anything changed in the second half it had already changed halfway through the first half when the opening frenzy died down a little and the Italians got control of the ball and we spent the next hour or so knackering ourselves chasing them around. They looked a fantastic team who look very capable of beating the record 35 match unbeaten runs of the great Brazil and Spain teams. No shame in getting beaten by a better team. It's when you get beaten by Iceland you've got something to worry about. As for sacking the manager and the torrent of racial abuse on social media to the three lads that missed their penalties it makes you despair.
I really do share your desperation,and your assessment of the Italians—one shouldn’t forget they lost their early-stage outstanding performer,Spinazolla and then 2nd half,Chiesa,who was looking likely to score at least once.
Southgate is a nice guy,who has done well to assemble a young,integrated squad but he’s not a great tactician.
Alexander-Arnold ,whom Southgate was reluctant to select,would have been an important extra ,but although Walker,Shaw,Pickford,Rice and Phillips all did well, England only has 2 world-class performers: Sterling and Stones,NOT Kane who only does well against weaker opposition—talking of which —which top teams did England have to beat on the way to the Final ? Only Germany and all bar one of the games was at Wembley. There were 5 top teams in the other half —Italy,Belgium,Spain,France,Portugal !
 
Incredibly harsh. In his time as England manager Southgate has taken England to a World Cup semi-final, a Nations League semi-final and a Euros final. He is tactically sound; not afraid to change formation/system to match up with opponents and has an eye on which players are best suited to certain games. Success (in relative terms) like that doesn't come by accident.

Under Capello we couldn't get beyond the second round and under Hodgson and Sven we couldn't go beyond the quarters in either competition.

Rice was knackered, that's why he came off.
Kris, may be harsh but the reality is that we lost all three matches when in reality we had the better squads.

You nailed it when you said that he tries to 'match up with opponents' - he has such an array of talent that he should be setting out to win the matches - let the opponents match us not the other way round.

Two centre backs with a combined age of 70 would have been troubled by Rashford's pace alongside Kane. A reserve Chelsea left back would have likely have been destroyed by Grealish.

A knackered Rice still looked a million miles better than Henderson. If he was that knackered, of which I am not convinced, then that was the time to switch formation and put pressure back on to the Italians who had worked out how to handle our lack of a centre forward - I don't believe Kane touched the ball in their penalty area in open play the whole game - is that correct or heresay as I am not sure.

If Mancini had the same squad available as Southgate then personally I am pretty sure he would have won the match comfortably.

Still, it's over and we lost again and it's all about opinions so hopefully onwards and upwards in the NL.

The following from the Evening Standard really sums up my feelings far better than I can articulate them.

 
Last edited:
I can’t remember a single game of football being more representative of the enormous role momentum, and how quickly it can change, as last night. It swung like a pendulum, which made everything all the more tense and fraught, and ultimately exhausting. Right from the off, England came out of the traps and Southgate’s initial gameplan was fantastic and executed to perfection. I thought Italy were on the ropes for the first 10/15 minutes and so susceptible down either channel as we created and exploited overloads.

Then Mancini changed it, and things started to even out. Then England failed to take control of the midfield (fatigue, tactical appreciation, Italy being simply better – or a combination of all three) and Italy were completely on top. Then Italy faded in extra time and England were unlucky not to create a clear cut chance to win it.

The shoot-out, again, embodied that. I know it’s simplistic to say, but I firmly believe that if Rashford’s penalty is six inches further to his right, England win. Obviously Italy had already missed one, but Kane’s penalty settled the nerves and Maguire’s penalty was so emphatic that it hammered home England’s advantage. If Rashford converts, it makes Italy’s task daunting. But the sight of one of England’s most accomplished penalty takers hitting the post visibly enlivened Italy and clearly reverberated with England’s remaining takers. Neither Sancho nor Saka looked comfortable after that. Pickford’s heroics were game, but futile.

I don’t really buy that Southgate’s decisions on the penalty takers were at fault. There’s a due process and a methodology that’s been taken, penalties have been practiced in various formats throughout the camp and Southgate’s team had scrutinised every minute detail going into the tournament. It’s easy to lament that a 19-year old was left taking a penalty of enormous consequence but, by all accounts, he’d been amongst the most consistent takers over the last six weeks of training.

Ultimately England didn’t do enough/couldn’t create enough in 120 minutes to break Italy down twice. We rode our luck at times for sure, but equally there were spells in the game, particularly the first half of regular time and the second half of extra time, when we were on top and looked capable of winning the game. Watching Southgate’s press conference earlier he’s mentioned how Italy are that much further along in their journey than we are, and I fully subscribe to that – there’s a lot of talk in the Italian press and comments from Mancini that argue they’ve come full circle, and I think they’d acknowledge that they’re coming towards the end of a cycle that this England side are only just beginning.

The result is an absolute gut punch. A sickener made to feel even worse because of the sheer level of growth this England side, right the way through from the players to the coaching staff, has demonstrated. This tournament was the first I can remember when an England side has grown into a tournament, timing their improvement (almost) impeccably. Not just the players, but the manager and the coaching staff – if 2018 was the moment something was created, then this was the moment something really cemented itself within the national side. Even stripping away the results and the fact we’ve gone further in a major international tournament than we had for more than 50 years, there’s 26 players in that squad that truly represent the country have triggered an enormous sense of pride. That pride is almost paternal at times, which is why the result is so difficult to swallow, but also the abuse handed out to players so disgusting.

As for the conduct of the fans yesterday – I don’t know what people (and more to it – the police) expected to happen. First final in 55 years, a team that has inspired millions, the imminent end of nearly 18 months of restrictions… it was a perfect storm. Every professional and semi-professional club has its dickheads (some more than others), and all those dickheads come out in force behind the England banner once every two years. It just seemed they all made their way to London yesterday morning.

Where do we go from here? I’m genuinely in disbelief that people would even consider Southgate’s position today. The players have conducted themselves incredibly well these last few weeks, but Southgate has led them, coached them and managed them unbelievably well. I think Mancini was the tournament’s best coach, but Southgate was undeniably second for me.

One of the things I think England fans as a collective need to begin to appreciate is that coaches improve players, but coaches need to improve too. They need tournament and big game experiences to learn and grow from just as much as the players do. Southgate showed some material development this tournament over 2018 – he adapted gameplans, recycled the squad and managed the load this summer far better. What last night showed is that he needs to improve at changing things within a game if they’re not working and addressing situations like the first 20 minutes of the first half yesterday in which we had clearly surrendered the midfield.

That kind of nous will undoubtedly come with more experience. Yesterday will have been chastening for Southgate and the coaching staff, but I can’t see how anyone can have watched the last three years of Southgate’s reign and not seen the trajectory. With Southgate and his staff’s continuing improvement, coupled with this squad’s maturity, I can’t see how England fans won’t have more occasions like yesterday.

I just hoped the nation itself improves in how it handles them.
 
Well, there we go. In the harsh light of the day after the night before it is understandable that folk will criticise Gareth Southgate's decisions. The most important mistake was, I think, the failure to bring on substitutes at the start of extra time.

I prefer to remember the excellent decisions that Southgate made in setting up the side for the final and the superb flowing football which led to England's excellent goal. I have never seen an Italian team so panicked as they were for the first twenty five minutes last night. Our failure to score a second goal then made me fear the worst, but our defence and our excellent goalkeeper held firm. Italy only managed to score one goal, and a scrappy affair it was. Pickford saved brilliantly and was very unlucky that the ball bounced back from the post into the path of Banucci.

Southgate and his team are the best of us. Thank you for providing a shining example of modern England working as a team.
 
I can’t remember a single game of football being more representative of the enormous role momentum, and how quickly it can change, as last night. It swung like a pendulum, which made everything all the more tense and fraught, and ultimately exhausting. Right from the off, England came out of the traps and Southgate’s initial gameplan was fantastic and executed to perfection. I thought Italy were on the ropes for the first 10/15 minutes and so susceptible down either channel as we created and exploited overloads.

Then Mancini changed it, and things started to even out. Then England failed to take control of the midfield (fatigue, tactical appreciation, Italy being simply better – or a combination of all three) and Italy were completely on top. Then Italy faded in extra time and England were unlucky not to create a clear cut chance to win it.

The shoot-out, again, embodied that. I know it’s simplistic to say, but I firmly believe that if Rashford’s penalty is six inches further to his right, England win. Obviously Italy had already missed one, but Kane’s penalty settled the nerves and Maguire’s penalty was so emphatic that it hammered home England’s advantage. If Rashford converts, it makes Italy’s task daunting. But the sight of one of England’s most accomplished penalty takers hitting the post visibly enlivened Italy and clearly reverberated with England’s remaining takers. Neither Sancho nor Saka looked comfortable after that. Pickford’s heroics were game, but futile.

I don’t really buy that Southgate’s decisions on the penalty takers were at fault. There’s a due process and a methodology that’s been taken, penalties have been practiced in various formats throughout the camp and Southgate’s team had scrutinised every minute detail going into the tournament. It’s easy to lament that a 19-year old was left taking a penalty of enormous consequence but, by all accounts, he’d been amongst the most consistent takers over the last six weeks of training.

Ultimately England didn’t do enough/couldn’t create enough in 120 minutes to break Italy down twice. We rode our luck at times for sure, but equally there were spells in the game, particularly the first half of regular time and the second half of extra time, when we were on top and looked capable of winning the game. Watching Southgate’s press conference earlier he’s mentioned how Italy are that much further along in their journey than we are, and I fully subscribe to that – there’s a lot of talk in the Italian press and comments from Mancini that argue they’ve come full circle, and I think they’d acknowledge that they’re coming towards the end of a cycle that this England side are only just beginning.

The result is an absolute gut punch. A sickener made to feel even worse because of the sheer level of growth this England side, right the way through from the players to the coaching staff, has demonstrated. This tournament was the first I can remember when an England side has grown into a tournament, timing their improvement (almost) impeccably. Not just the players, but the manager and the coaching staff – if 2018 was the moment something was created, then this was the moment something really cemented itself within the national side. Even stripping away the results and the fact we’ve gone further in a major international tournament than we had for more than 50 years, there’s 26 players in that squad that truly represent the country have triggered an enormous sense of pride. That pride is almost paternal at times, which is why the result is so difficult to swallow, but also the abuse handed out to players so disgusting.

As for the conduct of the fans yesterday – I don’t know what people (and more to it – the police) expected to happen. First final in 55 years, a team that has inspired millions, the imminent end of nearly 18 months of restrictions… it was a perfect storm. Every professional and semi-professional club has its dickheads (some more than others), and all those dickheads come out in force behind the England banner once every two years. It just seemed they all made their way to London yesterday morning.

Where do we go from here? I’m genuinely in disbelief that people would even consider Southgate’s position today. The players have conducted themselves incredibly well these last few weeks, but Southgate has led them, coached them and managed them unbelievably well. I think Mancini was the tournament’s best coach, but Southgate was undeniably second for me.

One of the things I think England fans as a collective need to begin to appreciate is that coaches improve players, but coaches need to improve too. They need tournament and big game experiences to learn and grow from just as much as the players do. Southgate showed some material development this tournament over 2018 – he adapted gameplans, recycled the squad and managed the load this summer far better. What last night showed is that he needs to improve at changing things within a game if they’re not working and addressing situations like the first 20 minutes of the first half yesterday in which we had clearly surrendered the midfield.

That kind of nous will undoubtedly come with more experience. Yesterday will have been chastening for Southgate and the coaching staff, but I can’t see how anyone can have watched the last three years of Southgate’s reign and not seen the trajectory. With Southgate and his staff’s continuing improvement, coupled with this squad’s maturity, I can’t see how England fans won’t have more occasions like yesterday.

I just hoped the nation itself improves in how it handles them.
That's a lot of words to say that you think second best is good enough and that those (like me) who think Southgate hasn't got what it takes need to 'improve'. Man for man, the players that England had at their disposal were superior to those available to Mancini's Italy, but caution and inflexibility meant that the statistical report of the game looked like Italy had been playing San Marino. You talk about Southgate developing as a coach, and that would be fine, if he were a club manager (interesting that no big clubs have ever been interested in him as a manager). But you only get one shot at this every two years, and you have to be ready when those opportunities come. In 2018 and in 2021, England had a fortuitous route to a final laid out as other big countries fluffed their lines, and Southgate has been hugely fortunate to never be the recipient of cruel luck like the hand of God or the outrageous Lampard goal in 2010 that wasn't given. We should have beaten Croatia and we should have beaten Italy and we didn't, and that's not good enough. So we can wait 18 months and hope Southgate has learned some lessons, and if he hasn't, there's always 2024, right? England have a real window of opportunity now, as other countries are retooling and rebuilding, it would be a shame to waste it.
 
I told you all Italy were going to win it. Ofcourse I wanted England to win but in my opinion the better team won.
 
I told you all Italy were going to win it. Ofcourse I wanted England to win but in my opinion the better team won.
What's your prediction for Southend this season? I'll hold off from a trip to the bookies until I hear.
 
What's your prediction for Southend this season? I'll hold off from a trip to the bookies until I hear.
Can't make that prediction at this current present ? Need to see who else sufc bring in before a ball kicked.
 
Oh, righto. I'll wait patiently then.
Let's just say if we continue to bring in players who are in their 30s, sufc will probably end up midtable or lower. Problem sufc will have is those players won't be able to hack the demands of the national league...... iv noticed national league has number of Saturday Tuesdays games. Also potential more chances of picking up injuries.

Iv said previously the next batch of signings are important to whether sufc will have good season or poor 1.

Time will tell I guess.
 
Let's just say if we continue to bring in players who are in their 30s, sufc will probably end up midtable or lower. Problem sufc will have is those players won't be able to hack the demands of the national league...... iv noticed national league has number of Saturday Tuesdays games. Also potential more chances of picking up injuries.

Iv said previously the next batch of signings are important to whether sufc will have good season or poor 1.

Time will tell I guess.
Wise words.
 
That's a lot of words to say that you think second best is good enough and that those (like me) who think Southgate hasn't got what it takes need to 'improve'. Man for man, the players that England had at their disposal were superior to those available to Mancini's Italy, but caution and inflexibility meant that the statistical report of the game looked like Italy had been playing San Marino. You talk about Southgate developing as a coach, and that would be fine, if he were a club manager (interesting that no big clubs have ever been interested in him as a manager). But you only get one shot at this every two years, and you have to be ready when those opportunities come. In 2018 and in 2021, England had a fortuitous route to a final laid out as other big countries fluffed their lines, and Southgate has been hugely fortunate to never be the recipient of cruel luck like the hand of God or the outrageous Lampard goal in 2010 that wasn't given. We should have beaten Croatia and we should have beaten Italy and we didn't, and that's not good enough. So we can wait 18 months and hope Southgate has learned some lessons, and if he hasn't, there's always 2024, right? England have a real window of opportunity now, as other countries are retooling and rebuilding, it would be a shame to waste it.
Not sure about that. For example, I thought Pickford had a fantastic tournament but for me was edged out by Italy's Donnarulla, who was named player of the tournament, which was a surprise. His command of the box was superb and he made some top saves as well.

Equally I thought Stones and Maguire had great tournaments but the beasts of Chiellini and Bonucci were marginally better.

Rice and Phillips had great tournaments but were they able to dictate the game like Giorginio?

Further forward Italy had Chiesa, Insigne and Immobile, all of whom were unplayable at times and IMO were equal to Kane, Sterling and Mount.

Shaw was arguably England's best player and the best left-back in the tournament once Spinazzola was cruelly sidelined.

So there's not much of a difference and that was reflected in the result.

Just out of curiosity, who would you have as GS's successor if he resigns? I'm struggling to come up with anyone beyond Eddie Howe, Brendan Rogers or Graham Potter.
 
Hard fought game and brilliant to watch with amazing atmosphere. Italy were good and closed us down so well and tried to stop us playing. But we played well as well and without fear, never seem so much confidence in a team. Extra time italy were dead on their feet, grealish was starting to make an impact until italy reduced him. Should have made attacking subs earlier as italy in extra time were there for the taking. Penalties dont get me started! Lots of fun and games getting home, a very long day!
During either the 2nd half, or extra time, something happened which caused the game to be stopped for a couple of mins.
TV wouldn't show what was going on, streaker, protest or what-ever.
Did you see what was going on, & what was it?.
 
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