GNVQs and BTECs and other qualifications that aren't GCSEs/A-levels/Degrees

[Rusty Shackleford]

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

No, I think it explains why your world is in such a mess.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

That explains why Alan Turing didn't last long at Kwik Fit.

 

[pringlejon]

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

I see your point with this, but I've just finished a maths degree and although 50% of the people on my course had poor social skills, the other 50% did not. Just because you can do maths doesnt mean you are useless at everything else. I play football, i do DIY, I'm a fairly standard bloke. Young people nowadays are criticised for getting a good education or told it is easier than it used to be! I had to work bloody hard for my degree and its insulting for me and many others when we're always put down for it. Don't get me wrong, this doesnt mean i'm gonna get a group together and march through london throwing fire extinguishers off roofs. I'm just fed up with the negative attitude towards students.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

Yep, the world is a in a mess because employers would rather take on someone who has worked hard and gained a degree from one of the world's finest univiersities rather than someone who has slacked their way to a pass in a GNVQ. Jesus wept.

Incidentally, the comment about maths graduates being socially inept, while made in jest, is pretty unfair. How many maths graduates do you know?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Just out of interest, what job are you looking to fill...?

Administrator. Which will involve maintaining a database, ensuring filing is accurate and up to date and all systems and controls are adhered to and lots of exciting stuff like that.

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

No it doesn't. Your answer firstly provided no value and secondly in any case was wrong as I want an employee with some initiative who can take a proactive role rather than merely follow as you suggested.

Your failure to even ask what the role is before attempting to answer the question would also mark you as unsuitable.

Matt, what I meant was that by diligent application and total commitment I took mine in 9 months, not because it was easy. There were plenty of people on the course who took nearer the alloted time. Ours was made up of 9 units, you were "taught" the main five in succession, working co-operatively as a tutorial group once a week and independently producing coursework and then the other four units were down to yourself. Each unit was signed off separately by your assessor and then periodically by the head of faculty or a more senior assessor. In my case a lot of it cross referenced, there WAS a tremendous amount of work involved and it was very thorough. An external assessor also came in once to ensure that standards are being met, he or she doesn't look at everyone's portfolio of work, but a representative few for each of the assessors on that course, mine was one of them.



Incidentally, just looked this up for you and Wiki says this:

• NVQ 1 = foundation GNVQ, three to four GCSEs at grades D-E, Business & Technology Education Council (BTEC) first certificate.
• NVQ 2 = five GCSEs at grades A*-C, BTEC first diploma.
• NVQ 3 = two or more A levels, BTEC Ordinary National Diploma (OND), City & Guilds Advanced Craft.
• NVQ 4 = BTEC Higher National Certificate (HNC) or Higher National Diploma (HND), or City & Guilds Full Technological Certificate / Diploma
• NVQ 5 =NQF 7-8

And this page might help also:

http://www.serc.ac.uk/courses/Pages/QualificationsGuide.aspx

Oh and by the way, a lot of kids these days are doing "OCR" exams, these are GCSE C grade equivalent!!!


Indeed, this has been known for some time and is why league tables are not really reflective of a school's results.

I'm not doubting your ability, but I am doubting the rigour of a course that can be completed in 50% of the alloted time.

Whilst these courses may be nominally worth X A-levels or GCSEs I want to establish whether this is the case or not - so thanks ibwiajwa as that is exactly the type of thing I was after.

I see your point with this, but I've just finished a maths degree and although 50% of the people on my course had poor social skills, the other 50% did not. Just because you can do maths doesnt mean you are useless at everything else. I play football, i do DIY, I'm a fairly standard bloke. Young people nowadays are criticised for getting a good education or told it is easier than it used to be! I had to work bloody hard for my degree and its insulting for me and many others when we're always put down for it. Don't get me wrong, this doesnt mean i'm gonna get a group together and march through london throwing fire extinguishers off roofs. I'm just fed up with the negative attitude towards students.

Computer Science is even worse than maths for that. My old housemate estimated that there were 4 people on his course who were capable of holding an actual conversation with a human. Still that's what the interview process is all about.

 

[Pubey]

At the moment YB I'm sure you could find an applicant with a PhD who's willing to be an administrator.

 

[Napster]

At the moment YB I'm sure you could find an applicant with a PhD who's willing to be an administrator.

what about gillian mckeith?

 

[Pubey]

what about gillian mckeith?

Apologies my post should have said a PhD from an accredited institution.

 

[osymandus]

I see your point with this, but I've just finished a maths degree and although 50% of the people on my course had poor social skills, the other 50% did not. Just because you can do maths doesnt mean you are useless at everything else. I play football, i do DIY, I'm a fairly standard bloke. Young people nowadays are criticised for getting a good education or told it is easier than it used to be! I had to work bloody hard for my degree and its insulting for me and many others when we're always put down for it. Don't get me wrong, this doesnt mean i'm gonna get a group together and march through london throwing fire extinguishers off roofs. I'm just fed up with the negative attitude towards students.

Not what im saying . It's very likely that a logical analytical mind will be good at related subjects , however the more removed from the process of thought and how their mind works the harder it is . We have this idea that one espically refined areas of knowledge (and i could have chosen say physic's ) give us greater potential in other areas by virtue of the subject . I agree with you , however my original distinction is that a could employee should also be a good student i.e one who never stops learning . You want an identi kit clone of a mean go for it .
@Rudi . No corpses tend not to do well in the work place . Damn you health and safety and your lack of acceptance for a necromantic workforce !!!

@Uncle Leo , quick look up ... too late there goes my point. Actually about 5 , 1 was from Jesus College Cambridge , the other helped refine the fake diamond stuff . Having met many people with Autism (who also have Dyspraxia ) there's a higher percentage (of which empirically they would be the first to admit )

@YB How do you know till you reject them ?You believe it conveys no value however as you seem to have not distinguished between those who learn and those who fit a stereotype , im going to use your method of non evidence based dismissal on the grounds of my own prejudice.

Also current interview process prejudice against people with a lack of social skills so they come across withdrawn shy or even useless, yet are normally more then capable of doing the job asked (oddly you quote at the bottom of your post about 4 people on computer science degrees being inept at the interview )these would also most likely have logical /analytical based minds , some areas undeveloped for the criteria you are looking for . Maybe its the criteria that is at fault not the interviewees.

Right off to work ttfn

 

[C C Csiders]

That explains why Alan Turing didn't last long at Kwik Fit.

On the other hand Stephen Wright the Ipswich Ripper was a first class employee of KwikFit; because "You can't rip quicker than an Ipswich Ripper"

 

[Uncle Leo]

Also current interview process prejudice against people with a lack of social skills so they come across withdrawn shy or even useless, yet are normally more then capable of doing the job asked (oddly you quote at the bottom of your post about 4 people on computer science degrees being inept at the interview )these would also most likely have logical /analytical based minds , some areas undeveloped for the criteria you are looking for . Maybe its the criteria that is at fault not the interviewees.

What do you mean by the 'current interview process'? There's not a set way of doing things, enshrined in employment law.

 

[Neil_F]

Explains why the world is in such a mess then, well a first in mathematics is wonderful but their normally rubbish at fixing car's , co-ordinating social events or interacting with none autistic people ;) .
YB . Your rejection would enrich their lives .

Something of a sweeping generalisation isn't it, and, in all honesty, pretty rude. I say so as a physics graduate.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

I work in software development and believe my success in interviews is due to my prowess as a raconteur and bon vivant.

 

[Firestorm]

What do you mean by the 'current interview process'? There's not a set way of doing things, enshrined in employment law.

i think its a reference to equal opportunity legislation, which if followed strictly does limit the interview process.

Its a bit of a catch 22 there, a certain type of institution will follow the EO legislation closely (Local authorities etc), they also tend to attract candidates who would utilise the legislation if it is not followed , which means that the interviewer has to follow it etc etc.
The same applied to tribunals too.

I can't imagine anyone being able to get another comparable job in the city if they took an interviewer to a tribunal for not asking the same question to all of the interviewees.......

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

@YB How do you know till you reject them ?You believe it conveys no value however as you seem to have not distinguished between those who learn and those who fit a stereotype , im going to use your method of non evidence based dismissal on the grounds of my own prejudice.

Eh? WTF are you on about. I asked a question, you gave me a rubbish answer, I rejected you on the basis of that rubbish answer. How much more evidence based do you want the process to be?

Also current interview process prejudice against people with a lack of social skills so they come across withdrawn shy or even useless, yet are normally more then capable of doing the job asked (oddly you quote at the bottom of your post about 4 people on computer science degrees being inept at the interview )these would also most likely have logical /analytical based minds , some areas undeveloped for the criteria you are looking for . Maybe its the criteria that is at fault not the interviewees.

This is not the conclusion of a logical mind.

Some jobs may not require the employee to interact with other human beings, in which case testing someone by way of interview could be considered to be an inappropriate method. However in a job that does require the employee to effectively interact with other human beings (such as the one I am looking to fill) it is entirely appropriate that this should form part of the criteria and utilise a method the tests this criteria. You may have weird and wonderful thoughts but unless you are able to successfully convey them to other people (which you have comprehensively failed to do so here) then they add no value.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

I hold a physics degree and am equally at home in the technical environment in which I work or more social situations such as illegal dog fights.

 

[Holy Joe]

This is my first post on here but thought I would post as I am currently doing a level 3 Btec. Btecs are coursework based and you get graded either Pass, Merit, Distinction which is equivalent to c,b,a respectively. But basically if they only have a pass it means they have not put any extra work into the course and has only done the bare minimum. A merit is meant to show that you understand the subject area in some detail and a distinction meaning you understand it in a lot of detail and this person would have done a lot of extra work to get the grade. In answer to your questions then; they are easier to pass than a-levels, and the good student’s are the ones with merit and distinctions

Jeez - changed alot since my day - I think all of my units were exam based. & in respnse to someone top uni's certainly used to accept BTEC HNC.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I work in software development and believe my success in interviews is due to my prowess as a raconteur and bon vivant.

The job's yours if you want it.

I hold a physics degree and am equally at home in the technical environment in which I work or more social situations such as illegal dog fights.

What dogs have you fought? Are we talking Cocker Spaniels, in which case you'd have a substantial reach advantage or Great Danes?

 

[Firestorm]

What dogs have you fought? Are we talking Cocker Spaniels, in which case you'd have a substantial reach advantage or Great Danes?

He never said he won

 

[osymandus]

What do you mean by the 'current interview process'? There's not a set way of doing things, enshrined in employment law.

Well there are some about how you can talk , what information you can ask for and can't references etc . But a certain criteria and , questions are standard within larger corporates (having worked for a few and with HR departments ) even test's and methodology for psychological questions .
@Rudi goes without saying , Windows developers , fine wines and spirits , Linux real ale drinkers , Mac cocktails and spritzers ;)
@YB . Well as much as possible really . Yes you asked a question i replied you faulted it on your perceived worth , i responded your point ? It's a forum its a protocol here im sure your familiar with it by now .

Ok your declaring logic as defence yet you state that some jobs never involve human interaction , ever ?Don;t you need front office or customer interaction ? Now I know many a person with learning difficulties with autism etc who are brilliant once their passed the artificial pressure of teh interview (they over worry and compensate for failures or stresses that arnt there ) this makes them look bad . In a as Firestorm said more equal environment you get to see what they are really like (there are also trial week work periods as well ask your local Job centre )
Oddly you responded to my idea's but in the same sentence say i failed to covey the point . I think your missing the points here and the issue is yours not mine. If you use that methodology or analogies to employ people no wonder you came into a public forum to ask advice on discerning methods to understand basic psychological techniques.

People say you should need a licence to become a parent , maybe we need one or even qualifications to run a small buisness seems anyone can do it.