Goalscorers

[Jam_Man]

My point is I think it could. I accept there is a lot of pressure on our midfielders to get forward and get goals. Clearly they are not managing that too well either compared to other teams. I still believe as does our manager now that we lack a bit more composure and quality up front. New faces make a difference too ( Deegan) On other occasions numerous chances have fallen to our forwards who have significantly failed to score. Would you like Richards upfront , banged in 8 already?

Of course we want a player who can score hatfuls everyone does. We scored loads under Sturrock in that 2nd season , yet our top scorer that year got 12. Chesterfield went up champions and Corr outscored all of their players.

Also if it so pointless to have good strikers how come practically most of this league have 50% more than us? Are they all wrong then ? See my initial opening comments on this thread. Only 7 strikers at Luton ? obviously other teams / managers / directors value the quality of having a fair number of strikers contributing?

No one is saying its pointless, its a great thing to have.

Having a great striker would be fantastic, but people get too tunnel visioned that if you aren't scoring goals its solely because of your striker(s). There's more to it than that, but yes of course having players finish the chances they are getting is paramount.

Talking of Sturrock, isnt it rather odd he played a far more defensive style that year than Brown and scored far more, even without any one getting more than 12? Food for thought...

 

[chapperzUK]

Note I stated under Phil's system !

Yes and there are a fair amount of similarities between these systems.

 

[Jam_Man]

Yes and there are a fair amount of similarities between these systems.

Its not the system and never has been.

We were in terrible form last year at the bottom of the form table, beat Oxford, reverted back to the same formation and we shot to the top of the form table playing the same system and pretty much the same players, bar Murphy.

What matters is the players being selected, and as Brown is picking 4 attacking players out of 10 he cant be deemed defensive. If he wanted to be defensive he could drop Coulthirst or Hurst and play someone more defensive in those positions. The only defensive thing he has done is add Deegan, and thats just allowed Payne to be more attacking.

 

[mrsblue]

Its not the system and never has been.

We were in terrible form last year at the bottom of the form table, beat Oxford, reverted back to the same formation and we shot to the top of the form table.

What matters is the players being selected, and as Brown is picking 4 attacking players out of 10 he cant be deemed defensive. If he wanted to be defensive he could drop Coulthirst or Hurst and play someone more defensive in those positions.

Drop Coulthirst hahahahahahahahahahahaha .

 

[Jam_Man]

Drop Coulthirst hahahahahahahahahahahaha .

He did drop him but due to an injury to Corr has had to play since, and since then has scored 2 goals in 4 games plus a 7 minute appearance.

 

[chapperzUK]

Its not the system and never has been.

We were in terrible form last year at the bottom of the form table, beat Oxford, reverted back to the same formation and we shot to the top of the form table playing the same system and pretty much the same players, bar Murphy.

What matters is the players being selected, and as Brown is picking 4 attacking players out of 10 he cant be deemed defensive. If he wanted to be defensive he could drop Coulthirst or Hurst and play someone more defensive in those positions. The only defensive thing he has done is add Deegan, and thats just allowed Payne to be more attacking.

He can't do that because of the contract agreement between us and Tottenham. We've already dropped him twice and had to pay his weekly wage of £30k per week because of it!

P.S. I agree that it isn't the system and was trying to make that point.

 

[Jam_Man]

He can't do that because of the contract agreement between us and Tottenham. We've already dropped him twice and had to pay his weekly wage of £30k per week because of it!

P.S. I agree that it isn't the system and was trying to make that point.

Oh yeah forgot about that :smile:

Wasnt disagreeing with you, just adding to what you had said..

Phil Brown has already stated beofre systems dont win football matches, and I agree with him to an extent. You dont take a team of 11 players and just change a tactic and suddenly start playing like world beaters, its not as simple as that.

Where systems come into play for me is getting the most out of some individuals, ie playing 451 is the best system for Jack Payne, but not so much if you want Corr scoring goals. Thats the balance and difficulty in deciding what to play.

 

[Barry.C]

Sorry Lads and lasses. have to pop off dig up some more spuds to help pay for my old landrover that some idiots threw a brick through the rear window of ( and 13 other poor sods in the same position locally) So many chards of glass it also got into the electronics! so had to be towed off, Hopefully bill under £500!! Will catch up later, thanks for all the thoughtful posts on here!! regards, BarryC ---We will smash Luton 1 nil!!

 

[TTS]

After 95 minutes we had scored nil..FACT.

We are fourth and if we had won, we would have been joint top FACT ! So season cant be that bad so far can it FACT !

We have the joint second best against record FACT

Would you rather be watching Cambridge this season, they have scored 18 goals, so they must be entertaining to watch, oh hang on, they have also conceeded 14 and are 16th ... oh well. But as you say, its all about goals goals goals !

 

[mrsblue]

We are fourth and if we had won, we would have been joint top FACT ! So season cant be that bad so far can it FACT !

We have the joint second best against record FACT

Would you rather be watching Cambridge this season, they have scored 18 goals, so they must be entertaining to watch, oh hang on, they have also conceeded 14 and are 16th ... oh well. But as you say, its all about goals goals goals !

Nah not Cambidge.

Love us to be where Bury are top and 6 goals more!

 

[Ricky Otto]

I think the modern game necessitates more men in midfield and the system that seems to produce the best results is the 4-5-1 switching to 4-3-3. I’ve always been a 4-4-2 man and as my generation were taught to play in a 4-4-2 exclusively, from under 6’s to men’s football I always played in a 4-4-2 formation, everyone knew their job in that system. Teams started to change to other systems and you soon realised that the extra man in the midfield allowed these teams to control the game generally, obviously personel is important and just because you play 4-5-1 it doesn’t mean you’ll beat a team playing 4-4-2 and dominate the midfield. Individual talent still plays a massive part but the most successful sides of recent years have been those who have an emphasis on controlling the midfield. The dominance of Spain and Barca in the modern era is based on winning the midfield battle and retaining possession with midfielders contributing heavily to the goals tally supporting a lone striker or maybe no striker at all. It’s very hard to defend against a interchanging fluid attack. The system is not just one for the upper echelons either, the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] team manager of my Sunday club switched to this system 2 seasons ago and after a transitional season won the pope and smith premier and the Essex Premier Cup last season.

 

[mrsblue]

I think the modern game necessitates more men in midfield and the system that seems to produce the best results is the 4-5-1 switching to 4-3-3. I’ve always been a 4-4-2 man and as my generation were taught to play in a 4-4-2 exclusively, from under 6’s to men’s football I always played in a 4-4-2 formation, everyone knew their job in that system. Teams started to change to other systems and you soon realised that the extra man in the midfield allowed these teams to control the game generally, obviously personel is important and just because you play 4-5-1 it doesn’t mean you’ll beat a team playing 4-4-2 and dominate the midfield. Individual talent still plays a massive part but the most successful sides of recent years have been those who have an emphasis on controlling the midfield. The dominance of Spain and Barca in the modern era is based on winning the midfield battle and retaining possession with midfielders contributing heavily to the goals tally supporting a lone striker or maybe no striker at all. It’s very hard to defend against a interchanging fluid attack. The system is not just one for the upper echelons either, the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] team manager of my Sunday club switched to this system 2 seasons ago and after a transitional season won the pope and smith premier and the Essex Premier Cup last season.

Priory Sports? who scored 48 goals in 14 league games,I like it.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Priory Sports? who scored 48 goals in 14 league games,I like it.

Yes Priory Sports, that level has a great disparity between the clubs the top teams will always pull out the odd 14-0 win against the bottom teams. The place where it counted was the tough league games and the later stages of the county cup where we had failed in recent years.

 

[defender05]

Apart from not working the goalkeepers enough we can't always blame our strikers in the current system. I feel our main problem is at home we play to slow, we like to move the ball across the pitch from side to side to find some space but we use about five or six passes so the opposition have already moved over by the time the ball get there. This then causes problems as player like Payne, Weston, Hurst and Coulthurst aren't able to find any space to work in and we end trying stupid passes that are easily intercepted.

The other problem that we have and I can't understand why we have it is that the system we play works best when the one upfront can hold the ball up and bring the midfielder's into the game but if Corr isn't playing we don't have another option. It's no good playing Barny, Weston or Coulthurst upfront on there own and expect them to do it as it not their game. We should have bought/loaned in another striker who could do the job in case or any injuries or loss of form.

 

[chapperzUK]

Apart from not working the goalkeepers enough we can't always blame our strikers in the current system. I feel our main problem is at home we play to slow, we like to move the ball across the pitch from side to side to find some space but we use about five or six passes so the opposition have already moved over by the time the ball get there. This then causes problems as player like Payne, Weston, Hurst and Coulthurst aren't able to find any space to work in and we end trying stupid passes that are easily intercepted.

The other problem that we have and I can't understand why we have it is that the system we play works best when the one upfront can hold the ball up and bring the midfielder's into the game but if Corr isn't playing we don't have another option. It's no good playing Barny, Weston or Coulthurst upfront on there own and expect them to do it as it not their game. We should have bought/loaned in another striker who could do the job in case or any injuries or loss of form.

Totally agree with the first part, our build up play is too slow and was down to the lack of movement up front. This changed when Barnard came on as he was trying to make these runs and was putting himself about.

As for the second part, again I agree and I would have thought someone like Ngoo would have fitted that "mould". Big lad who, from the small amout I've seen of him, is as good on the floor as he is in the air. Doesn't look slow either for a 6 ft 4 lad and although he hasn't scored buckets while on loan (5 in 15 is still pretty decent for Hearts) he is still young and could have added that part to his game. At least he would have been ours too.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Apart from not working the goalkeepers enough we can't always blame our strikers in the current system. I feel our main problem is at home we play to slow, we like to move the ball across the pitch from side to side to find some space but we use about five or six passes so the opposition have already moved over by the time the ball get there. This then causes problems as player like Payne, Weston, Hurst and Coulthurst aren't able to find any space to work in and we end trying stupid passes that are easily intercepted.

The other problem that we have and I can't understand why we have it is that the system we play works best when the one upfront can hold the ball up and bring the midfielder's into the game but if Corr isn't playing we don't have another option. It's no good playing Barny, Weston or Coulthurst upfront on there own and expect them to do it as it not their game. We should have bought/loaned in another striker who could do the job in case or any injuries or loss of form.​

Totally agree with the first part, our build up play is too slow and was down to the lack of movement up front. This changed when Barnard came on as he was trying to make these runs and was putting himself about.

As for the second part, again I agree and I would have thought someone like Ngoo would have fitted that "mould". Big lad who, from the small amout I've seen of him, is as good on the floor as he is in the air. Doesn't look slow either for a 6 ft 4 lad and although he hasn't scored buckets while on loan (5 in 15 is still pretty decent for Hearts) he is still young and could have added that part to his game. At least he would have been ours too.

Agree with you both, we do seem to be cautious against moving the ball too fast and losing posession. Hoping this will soon fall into place!

 

[Barry.C]

Despite our current lack of goalscorers we are very close to finishing in the 2nd spot if we could maintain current from to get 82 or 83 points to claim automatic promotion. It means midfielders and defenders chipping in a lot more though than currently. Over the past 6 years 80.3 points has guaranteed 3rd spot, 81.8 points for second and 87 points the average for outright champions. The other route is to sneak up at the end with a meagre 70.5 points to finish 6th or 7th and go up via the play offs. No team has gone up in 6 years finishing fourth, Gillingham finished 5th in 2008-09 to achieve promotion via the play-offs, but all the others slipped into mostly 7th just , then got promoted despite the 3 teams above them carrying many more points.
So we dont have to worry to much if we can retain current form. BUT.......Another side of the coin is that only 3 of 24 teams promoted in the past 6 years had there top 2 strikers score less than 19 goals between them The average for 6 years overall is 31 goals between the top two. We are therefore possibly on course to be the rare 1 in 7 clubs who break the mould by getting there with limited quality striking capability but the odds are against us on this one. However wouldnt it be nice to guarentee top slots and have 2 strikers knock in 31 goals. It went mad in 2009-10 season when the top 2 strikers for promoted clubs scored 43 goals on average for the 3 clubs promoted. In 2013- 14 the average was 28 by the top 2, and it was 25 in 2102-13, 24 in 2011 -12 and 35 in 2010-11. Just showing what a difference it can make to have two blokes able to hit a barn door occassionally?

 

[Barry.C]

Sorry should read only 3 of 18 promoted automatically in past 6 years ( ratio 1 in 6 not 7)

 

[chapperzUK]

Brilliant stats there! Can't rep on phone.

I don't think we will have anyone get over 15 league goals but I do think there will be 2 or 3 capable of getting 10+.

Also, didn't Fleetwood gain promotion last season via playoffs and they finished 4th?

 

[buffalowolf]

I better not say anything about our need for striker/s because i will only get shot down once again by Jamman.