How many of our players are league one standard

[Strykr]

Ok... I've said this before and I'll say it again. You can't be a pro footballer and be ****. There are too many selection processes to go through.

.

Daniel Webb and barrington belgrave instantly spring to mind...

 

[fbm]

Daniel Webb and barrington belgrave instantly spring to mind...

Yeah... I'm sure there are others of a similar vein. But they have to achieve a certain standard to even get a seat at that table... which means they are not **** players.

 

[Medway Blue]

As long and as detailed as that post is (which I commend you for) it is ridiculous and full of some of the worst observations I’ve ever read on here. The only thing saving it from being torn apart is the length of time it would take for me to do it!!

Yep I would love to see you tear this apart too. Because I think what was posted makes an awful lot of sense and closely matches my thoughts. Similar situation to our free fall mid-to-late 90s where 80% of the squad that had us sitting in the D1 playoffs in the January of 1995/96 ended up getting us relegated from D2 in 1997/98. There is an awful lot more to performing in professional football than just individual quality and we have had a perfect storm of other elements which has torn us apart.

 

[Mr Browns Ghost]

Good old Shrimperzone.......Dozens of posts about non league rough diamonds. Then when we sign Goodship and he scores a few in a totally failing side.....People queue up to slag him. He was never going to go from non league freebie to the mythical 25 goal a season striker that we rarely see.

If you want slag people start with the players who are taking the p*** out of us all........The likes Mantom, Demetriou and those that don't want to be here like Kiernan

Elaborate on this please sir ... you seem to know a lot about kiernan ... I hate him so am only to pleased to hear negative gossip about him ... Mantom yep he’s a fraud and I let him know every time he players he’s a **** house and deserves to be told , I’m sad about Dimi I like him and always thought he was up for the fight

 

[wiggy]

John white would be first on my team sheet at the moment with two broken arms and handcuffs!

Absolutely......the ones playing at the back now ain’t fit to lick John White’s boots!

 

[Tombstone Blues]

I really really can’t be bothered - there would be too much to write - but anyone who starts a sentence with “there’s not a lot wrong with our strike force....” has lost credibility in my book straight away

 

[Mr Browns Ghost]

Bi

Ok... I've said this before and I'll say it again. You can't be a pro footballer and be ****. There are too many selection processes to go through.

You can however play ****.

The vast majority of our players are more than capable of playing and being good players in L1. The only ones I have doubts about are Bishop, Elvis, Hutchinson, Kelman, Rush, Taylor, Barrett, Egbri, Ridgewell, White, Demitriou and Goodship.

Ridgewell is past it and John White, stalwart that he is, is probably only good enough for the odd game now. Demi is an international captain but his legs are shot. He can't train properly, never will be able to train properly and is not going to get to the level of fitness require by the new regime. If I were him I'd consider retirement. Goodship is a fantastic finisher but whether he can make the step up or not is as yet an unanswered question. We haven't seen enough of Barrett, Rush, Egbri or Taylor to form an opinion. And the other kids are all decent or potentially decent, but whether they are good enough for L1, who knows? None of them should be the first name on the teamsheet and they should be being eased into the team, 20 mins at a time.

However, the fact that we have been let down so badly by the senior players mean that they ARE the first names on the teamsheet. Elvis - probably our POTY so far - is actually not a brilliant full back... yet. His effort and passion are amazing and he looks decent on the ball but very often gets caught before putting the ball into the box and doesn't actually stop too many crosses. He is far from the finished article.

Bishop is a year or 2 away from being a very good keeper but is he a decent L1 keeper yet? Not in my opinion. He will be, of that I'm sure and maybe even higher... but just not yet.

Hutchinson for the last three games has been the only one with any quality or class; always wants the ball, takes the free kicks and corners, really puts himself in there... massive credit to him. But the majority of his free kicks and corners are not great, he isn't strong enough, gets caught in possession, doesn't want to head the ball and doesn't track back enough. He will be good, but it's too early for him.

Kelman has shown the odd flash. I think we were all guilty of being swept away by his goal of the season last year and he has scored ALL the goals in the only 2 games we have won this season. But he's injured and whilst I think he will have a great future in the game, again, it's too early in his career for him to be taking L1 by storm. These players are at least 1, 2, maybe 3 years away from decent careers in this league and possibly even the Championship, but I can't at this stage see any of them playing higher. Look at Jack Payne and Dru... are they L1 standard at the moment? Jack probably is but only because of the team he is playing in. Dru isn't even in the first team squad at Brentford.

Would they be L1 standard if they were back here? Probably not in this team. The blend is awful.

Every single senior player is absolutely good enough for L1. They would probably do very well at other L1 clubs. But for some reason, it isn't happening here. Dieng is the only one playing anywhere near his capability and has been almost a star performer in an appalling defence. Lennon is a decent player and still quite young but was in the Championship. Oxley was fantastic 2 years ago and at his age, keepers get better, not worse.

Kiernan clearly doesn't want to be here. What was last weeks excuse? A Migraine? Oh, ok Rob, if you say so. If it was a migraine, take some strong painkillers, sleep it off whilst travelling and see if it passes. If not, cry off at that point, not before the team has even left for the trip, practically 2 days before the game. Who cries off a Saturday game on a Thursday with a headache? That's poor if you ask me. And yes, I've had migraines and yes, I know there are different types and intensities. But really? Are we buying that, because I'm not.

Milligan was the mainstay at Hibs who finished 5th in the SPL and is an international captain. Shaughnessy is only 27, was St Johnstone's captain last season, has 4 U21 ROI caps and they finished 7th in the SPL last season. Ralph was Dundee's POTY last season, even though they were relegated. Oh, and I know Scottish football is not of a great standard, but we would be comfortably relegated if we were in it. It's better than we are.

Hyam and Mantom individually are ok - maybe not earth shattering, but ok. Why Mantom got the captaincy is beyond me and this has destroyed his confidence. He has become a shrinking violet and I bet that if someone offered him a way out of the club, he'd snap their arm off for it. Hyam cannot play more than 2 or 3 games before going injured and neither of them are strong enough to be the mainstay of a midfield. Kyprianou has shown that he is decent enough, especially when playing alongside Ferdinand.

McLaughlin has actually put in better performances since Bond left and was doing ok... Hamilton played in L1 with Rochdale all last season and is with Man Utd for God's sake.

There isn't a lot wrong with our strike force of Humphrys, Cox and Hopper. The problem is the service they get - or don't get, to be more accurate.

Of course they are good enough for L1.

In theory.

Collectively they are the worst Southend team I have seen in 50 years, they've set some very unwanted records and are on course for more. It is appalling... but it's not down to their individual ability in my opinion. It's the blend. It ain't working and something massively needs to change.

butt all your doing is listing the names on paper and telling us why they should be good ?? But they are not good are they ? This is the here and this is the now and they are ****ing awful ... the lot of them ... you don’t know if any of what you have said would be correct ?? We are analysing on what is actually happening in front of our eyes... because Lennon played in the championship he is good enough??! Come on you’re better than that .... they are nine carrot **** houses the lot of them... you can’t kid a kidder

 

[Rayleigh boy]

Ok... I've said this before and I'll say it again. You can't be a pro footballer and be ****. There are too many selection processes to go through.

You can however play ****.

The vast majority of our players are more than capable of playing and being good players in L1. The only ones I have doubts about are Bishop, Elvis, Hutchinson, Kelman, Rush, Taylor, Barrett, Egbri, Ridgewell, White, Demitriou and Goodship.

Ridgewell is past it and John White, stalwart that he is, is probably only good enough for the odd game now. Demi is an international captain but his legs are shot. He can't train properly, never will be able to train properly and is not going to get to the level of fitness require by the new regime. If I were him I'd consider retirement. Goodship is a fantastic finisher but whether he can make the step up or not is as yet an unanswered question. We haven't seen enough of Barrett, Rush, Egbri or Taylor to form an opinion. And the other kids are all decent or potentially decent, but whether they are good enough for L1, who knows? None of them should be the first name on the teamsheet and they should be being eased into the team, 20 mins at a time.

However, the fact that we have been let down so badly by the senior players mean that they ARE the first names on the teamsheet. Elvis - probably our POTY so far - is actually not a brilliant full back... yet. His effort and passion are amazing and he looks decent on the ball but very often gets caught before putting the ball into the box and doesn't actually stop too many crosses. He is far from the finished article.

Bishop is a year or 2 away from being a very good keeper but is he a decent L1 keeper yet? Not in my opinion. He will be, of that I'm sure and maybe even higher... but just not yet.

Hutchinson for the last three games has been the only one with any quality or class; always wants the ball, takes the free kicks and corners, really puts himself in there... massive credit to him. But the majority of his free kicks and corners are not great, he isn't strong enough, gets caught in possession, doesn't want to head the ball and doesn't track back enough. He will be good, but it's too early for him.

Kelman has shown the odd flash. I think we were all guilty of being swept away by his goal of the season last year and he has scored ALL the goals in the only 2 games we have won this season. But he's injured and whilst I think he will have a great future in the game, again, it's too early in his career for him to be taking L1 by storm. These players are at least 1, 2, maybe 3 years away from decent careers in this league and possibly even the Championship, but I can't at this stage see any of them playing higher. Look at Jack Payne and Dru... are they L1 standard at the moment? Jack probably is but only because of the team he is playing in. Dru isn't even in the first team squad at Brentford.

Would they be L1 standard if they were back here? Probably not in this team. The blend is awful.

Every single senior player is absolutely good enough for L1. They would probably do very well at other L1 clubs. But for some reason, it isn't happening here. Dieng is the only one playing anywhere near his capability and has been almost a star performer in an appalling defence. Lennon is a decent player and still quite young but was in the Championship. Oxley was fantastic 2 years ago and at his age, keepers get better, not worse.

Kiernan clearly doesn't want to be here. What was last weeks excuse? A Migraine? Oh, ok Rob, if you say so. If it was a migraine, take some strong painkillers, sleep it off whilst travelling and see if it passes. If not, cry off at that point, not before the team has even left for the trip, practically 2 days before the game. Who cries off a Saturday game on a Thursday with a headache? That's poor if you ask me. And yes, I've had migraines and yes, I know there are different types and intensities. But really? Are we buying that, because I'm not.

Milligan was the mainstay at Hibs who finished 5th in the SPL and is an international captain. Shaughnessy is only 27, was St Johnstone's captain last season, has 4 U21 ROI caps and they finished 7th in the SPL last season. Ralph was Dundee's POTY last season, even though they were relegated. Oh, and I know Scottish football is not of a great standard, but we would be comfortably relegated if we were in it. It's better than we are.

Hyam and Mantom individually are ok - maybe not earth shattering, but ok. Why Mantom got the captaincy is beyond me and this has destroyed his confidence. He has become a shrinking violet and I bet that if someone offered him a way out of the club, he'd snap their arm off for it. Hyam cannot play more than 2 or 3 games before going injured and neither of them are strong enough to be the mainstay of a midfield. Kyprianou has shown that he is decent enough, especially when playing alongside Ferdinand.

McLaughlin has actually put in better performances since Bond left and was doing ok... Hamilton played in L1 with Rochdale all last season and is with Man Utd for God's sake.

There isn't a lot wrong with our strike force of Humphrys, Cox and Hopper. The problem is the service they get - or don't get, to be more accurate.

Of course they are good enough for L1.

In theory.

Collectively they are the worst Southend team I have seen in 50 years, they've set some very unwanted records and are on course for more. It is appalling... but it's not down to their individual ability in my opinion. It's the blend. It ain't working and something massively needs to change.

interesting and thoughtful analysis ..... and a good contrast to some of the unpleasant player slagging on here

 

[Strykr]

Yeah... I'm sure there are others of a similar vein. But they have to achieve a certain standard to even get a seat at that table... which means they are not **** players.

But... danny webb? ?

 

[fbm]

I really really can’t be bothered - there would be too much to write - but anyone who starts a sentence with “there’s not a lot wrong with our strike force....” has lost credibility in my book straight away

In which case you've got me there.

Of course, your credibility in quoting half a sentence and backing up your assertions with logic, facts and informed opinion has rocketed and the way you put your points of view across in such detail has really thrown me under the bus. Well done. Top discussion.

 

[fbm]

Bi
butt all your doing is listing the names on paper and telling us why they should be good ?? But they are not good are they ? This is the here and this is the now and they are ****ing awful ... the lot of them ... you don’t know if any of what you have said would be correct ?? We are analysing on what is actually happening in front of our eyes... because Lennon played in the championship he is good enough??! Come on you’re better than that .... they are nine carrot **** houses the lot of them... you can’t kid a kidder

More the point that I'm telling you we bought them and yes, why they should be good and no doubt why they could be good.

But they're not, I totally agree. It's dreadful.

My point is that it's not the players that aren't up to L1 standard, it's the team and the way they are playing that aren't up to L1 standard. There's a difference.

You could take pretty much any one of our senior players, put them in another L1 team and they would do ok... certainly far better then they are doing here.

Whether as a collective this "team" can ever be good enough I don't know. It needs the right mix and very often this is stumbled upon by accident by a manager who gets lucky. Dave Webb did it as did Tilly. This mix is rancid. Whether Sol can galvanise them I have no idea.

But if he can them fit and working harder that'll be a start.

 

[Tombstone Blues]

Like I said, I don’t have the time or the energy. Hence why I could only be bothered to quote the start of a sentance.

Anyway even if I did make the effort it wouldn’t make any difference and no one would make sense of it anyway.

All I would say is I know a Sunderland player personally and he messaged me Saturday night and said our front three were the laziest front three he’s ever played against and were the root of many of our problems.

It wasn’t something I didn’t know already but it was first hand experienced confirmation.

 

[ms brush]

All of them are 'good enough', but we lack a leader on the pitch and we seriously lack confidence. They have got used to losing, and for various reasons the motivation has gone for a number of the team, unsurprisingly. Huge injury worries undid SCP, KB was the wrong man, which compounded the issues and made things 1000x worse. Ron has to take responsibility for that, and as pro footballers, particularly the senior players, know what needs to change yet they have been collectively unable to sort it out.

Sol knows he has a massive job on his hands, thank God he us up for the challenge. He said on bbc essex this morning that he is going back to basics, fitness, and getting the team to enjoy their football again. That statement is much more telling than any talent or perceived lack of talent!

 

[Tombstone Blues]

You could take pretty much any one of our senior players, put them in another L1 team and they would do ok... certainly far better then they are doing here.

You keep making out that the senior players aren’t the problem. That’s just a blinkered pre conceived perception based approach.

They are very much the problem. In fact pretty much to a man underperformed showed poor attitude, poor work rate, poor fitness levels, poor injury records, not led by example and finger pointed and blamed others for the whole time.

People need to stop remembering how good people used to be and start looking at what they are doing now.

At the very least, even while playing badly they could show a good attitude, work hard and lead by example for the benefit of the younger players and the team. It isn’t happening.

 

[fbm]

You keep making out that the senior players aren’t the problem. That’s just a blinkered pre conceived perception based approach.

They are very much the problem. In fact pretty much to a man underperformed showed poor attitude, poor work rate, poor fitness levels, poor injury records, not led by example and finger pointed and blamed others for the whole time.

People need to stop remembering how good people used to be and start looking at what they are doing now.

At the very least, even while playing badly they could show a good attitude, work hard and lead by example for the benefit of the younger players and the team. It isn’t happening.

Like I said, I don’t have the time or the energy. Hence why I could only be bothered to quote the start of a sentance.

Anyway even if I did make the effort it wouldn’t make any difference and no one would make sense of it anyway.

All I would say is I know a Sunderland player personally and he messaged me Saturday night and said our front three were the laziest front three he’s ever played against and were the root of many of our problems.

It wasn’t something I didn’t know already but it was first hand experienced confirmation.

See? Wasn't difficult.

Look, I'm not trying to be patronising but for God's sake, this is a discussion board so please discuss! Simply shouting someone down or coming back with one or two line responses with nothing to back it up doesn't help anyone. Now we're getting somewhere. You've given us some real info behind your rationale so we know where you're coming from.

And for the record - certainly as far as I'm concerned - if you or anyone else made an effort to respond properly then it might make a difference. I'm always happy to discuss points of view as everyone sees it differently. Discussion is never pointless.

 

[LBBlue]

The better sides in recent years have always had a nucleus of Southern based players. Now we have a team made up of northern, midland Irish, Australian wanderers - they probably all hate it having moved down here and can’t wait to get away. How many have settled here? How many are living in flats with their families in another part of the country?

Many have of them have a good pedigree but injuries have slowed down a fair number and others are probably just unsettled.

Look back at where our more successful signings have come from in the last 30 years- mainly southerners.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Like I said, I don’t have the time or the energy. Hence why I could only be bothered to quote the start of a sentance.

Anyway even if I did make the effort it wouldn’t make any difference and no one would make sense of it anyway.

All I would say is I know a Sunderland player personally and he messaged me Saturday night and said our front three were the laziest front three he’s ever played against and were the root of many of our problems.

It wasn’t something I didn’t know already but it was first hand experienced confirmation.

Well if you listen to most people, the front players ain’t the problem. Interesting point of view and highlights that the rot is through the whole TEAM.. front to back .. and much as I lay a lot of the blame on our defence and midfield the attackers are also culpable, yes.

 

[stewart]

I think this Sunday ,god willing a lot off the players may find their level of football.I feel sorry for Sol and hiis team ,they have taken on such a massive undertaking to get this mob fit,and playing decent football.First and foremost they need their lazy asses kicked,Sol needs tocome down hard on them not act like a mate to them.If they dont like it ship them out .

 

[Chrisb]

The standard most are at present is sub-standard.

 

[Stuart W]

I know you can use stats to say what you want them to say, but I feel if anyone wants to know if our defence is of league 1 standard, then take a deep breath and look at the following table, in which I have used all 91 league clubs as my sample.

Highest number of League goals conceded as of 9/11/19

Southend United. 48 (17 games)
Barnsley. 29 (15 games)
Bolton Wanderers. 29 (13 games)
Carlisle United. 29 (17 games)
Crawley Town. 29 (17 games)
Morecambe. 29 (17 games)

Notwithstanding that we have played more games than Barnsley and Bolton, that is a staggering stat. No-one else has conceded 30, yet we are just shy of 50. 65% more than anyone else.

Please remember this table when trying to assess the merits of Lennon, Shaunessy, Kiernan, Ralph, Oxley and all.