Is it down to discipline?

MC BLUES · Oct 22, 2006

Ok, so we all know we are now in a much tougher league. But are we really as bad as our results suggest? Do we genuinely believe that the teams we are playing now are generally all good enough to score at least 3 goals against us? Or is there something else fundamentally wrong?

Tilly and Brush HAVE done a great job so far. I think we can all agree on that. However, does familiarity breed contempt? Do football Managers have a restricted shelf life? Or is it perhaps that only the very strongest characters and personalities survive for the long term, ie, Alex Ferguson?

I suspect that there may be a bit of unrest in our camp right now and I really do believe that this is a massive test for Tilly.

I hear that two players want out, one of which is a first team regular, and dont worry it isn't Freddy thank god. I also hear that the new boys are in one group, Maher has his little clique, and then there are the others. Now before anyone jumps on me I know full well that this reflects real life to some extent. However, we also have the Ricketts affair to think about. Do we just blame Ricketts for his unwillingness to train properly and get himself in shape? Or should the Management of Ricketts take some responsibility as well?

A further observation made yesterday. Was it just me or did anyone else think that passion aside, there was little or no positional discipline on offer by most of the players, and not just Hammell? It really seemed to me that we had players all over the show for much of the game, almost to the point of where it became confusing? Then we have reports of Jay Smith throwing a tantrum in the dugout?! Again, not unusual for a player we might think, but is this yet another clue to a culture development which needs sorting quite quickly?

My point then is this. Are the players REALLY working as well as they should be for their manager and for this club? Is there unrest? Is there a perceived sense of unfair favouritism perhaps? Or, is there a worrying lack of discipline in the camp?

If discipline is a problem then it needs sorting out fast. If any player wants to leave this club then I would say let him go. I know Tilly has been strong in this respect in the past.

Tough job being a football Manager, I wouldn't fancy it that's for sure!

MK Shrimper · Oct 22, 2006

Well I know that if I was Jay, I'd want out. Gutteridge plays week after week and it's generally dreadful. Poor lad never gets a chance.

I don't know what the answer is. Personally I think we shouldn't of got rid of Bentley or Wayne Gray....are their replacements any better?

There was a great team spirit last season which seems to have evaporated...this is the only thing that will save us, because if they don't want to give 110% we're fcuked.

Blue Shrimp · Oct 22, 2006

Top post, I have been thinking the same thing.

The new players stated that they stick together as a group.

I think that the change came when Tilson made it clear that he wanted to talk to Norwich in the Blues World interview and on the radio. His friend Newman made back page headlines, pleading for Tilly to be allowed to talk to Norwich. Ron Martin strangely said that Tilson he thinks was fully committed to the blues.

If I was a player, sold the club by Tilson, staying far from home in a hotel and the manager then gave out clear signals that he wanted to leave, I would be very unhappy.

Most of you will not hear anything against Tilson but he is being found out now. Its a complete and utter shambles, lack of complete team spirit. To Tilly we have been unlucky, open your eyes we are **** poor.

Murkey_Mouse · Oct 22, 2006

On this display, the 1996/97 SUFC team are the worst team EVER in our history, but this current squad making the WORST team in 1996/97 season look like world beater now.

The squad of 2006/07 season will be the WORST team EVER in our history if the not careful, I would'nt want to be remeber as the player who play a part in a team which more likely to finish bottom with 28 points at end of season.

BrettieAngell · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Murkey_Mouse @ Oct. 22 2006,13:49)]On this display, the 1996/97 SUFC team are the worst team EVER in our history, but this current squad making the WORST team in 1996/97 season look like world beater now.

The squad of 2006/07 season will be the WORST team EVER in our history if the not careful, I would'nt want to be remeber as the player who play a part in a team which more likely to finish bottom with 28 points at end of season.

Calm down mate.

MK Shrimper · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Murkey_Mouse @ Oct. 22 2006,13:49)]On this display, the 1996/97 SUFC team are the worst team EVER in our history, but this current squad making the WORST team in 1996/97 season look like world beater now.

The squad of 2006/07 season will be the WORST team EVER in our history if the not careful, I would'nt want to be remeber as the player who play a part in a team which more likely to finish bottom with 28 points at end of season.

Lol, bit of an exagguration...

That Freddy Eastwood, what a pile of sh*t....reality check mate.

Murkey_Mouse · Oct 22, 2006

Its just getting too much when you see a Chilver & Dann less Col******r Utd side pushing nearer the Play-Off than relegation zone, while we give up at home too easily, I really hope Ron Martin say his pieces at the squad as he would'nt want to be a chairman with a team of quitter.

If that happen to a NBA side, America football or Baseball side in USA (I come from there) and their player quit easily half away through the match, the fans in USA would want their bloods & they will get kicked out by their club & replaced with players who can fight for their team. The players in this country is lucky that Tilson & Brush giving them chance next week to put it right.

I cannot see Leeds and Sheff. Weds go down, Hull might spash out money to stay up - I can see the bottom 3 will be Southend, Barnsley & Hull.

Murkey_Mouse · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That Freddy Eastwood, what a pile of sh*t....reality check mate.

Freddy not s**t mate, it the whole team are .... its not fair on like of Freddy to score goals if we leak them in for fun.

BrettieAngell · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Murkey_Mouse @ Oct. 22 2006,13:59)]Its just getting too much when you see a Chilver & Dann less Col******r Utd side pushing nearer the Play-Off than relegation zone, while we give up at home too easily, I really hope Ron Martin say his pieces at the squad as he would'nt want to be a chairman with a team of quitter.

If that happen to a NBA side, America football or Baseball side in USA (I come from there) and their player quit easily half away through the match, the fans in USA would want their bloods & they will get kicked out by their club & replaced with players who can fight for their team. The players in this country is lucky that Tilson & Brush giving them chance next week to put it right.

I cannot see Leeds and Sheff. Weds go down, Hull might spash out money to stay up - I can see the bottom 3 will be Southend, Barnsley & Hull.

I think Leeds are gonna get dragged into a relegation fight unless they turn things round very quickly same goes for Sheff Weds.

The next two games are crucial for us now.

Alex · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Oct. 22 2006,12:52)]Ok, so we all know we are now in a much tougher league. But are we really as bad as our results suggest? Do we genuinely believe that the teams we are playing now are generally all good enough to score at least 3 goals against us? Or is there something else fundamentally wrong?

Tilly and Brush HAVE done a great job so far. I think we can all agree on that. However, does familiarity breed contempt? Do football Managers have a restricted shelf life? Or is it perhaps that only the very strongest characters and personalities survive for the long term, ie, Alex Ferguson?

I suspect that there may be a bit of unrest in our camp right now and I really do believe that this is a massive test for Tilly.

I hear that two players want out, one of which is a first team regular, and dont worry it isn't Freddy thank god. I also hear that the new boys are in one group, Maher has his little clique, and then there are the others. Now before anyone jumps on me I know full well that this reflects real life to some extent. However, we also have the Ricketts affair to think about. Do we just blame Ricketts for his unwillingness to train properly and get himself in shape? Or should the Management of Ricketts take some responsibility as well?

A further observation made yesterday. Was it just me or did anyone else think that passion aside, there was little or no positional discipline on offer by most of the players, and not just Hammell? It really seemed to me that we had players all over the show for much of the game, almost to the point of where it became confusing? Then we have reports of Jay Smith throwing a tantrum in the dugout?! Again, not unusual for a player we might think, but is this yet another clue to a culture development which needs sorting quite quickly?

My point then is this. Are the players REALLY working as well as they should be for their manager and for this club? Is there unrest? Is there a perceived sense of unfair favouritism perhaps? Or, is there a worrying lack of discipline in the camp?

If discipline is a problem then it needs sorting out fast. If any player wants to leave this club then I would say let him go. I know Tilly has been strong in this respect in the past.

Tough job being a football Manager, I wouldn't fancy it that's for sure!

are you going to give a clue as to who these 2 players wanting out are?

sufcintheprem · Oct 22, 2006

I would agree about positional discipline, mainly on the flanks. Not so sure about discipline in other respects

Certainly our disciplinary record is very good though. Possibly too good. I thought this when Noble chopped down our players on several occasions and prevented us from getting our game flowing.

Einstein · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Blue Shrimp @ Oct. 22 2006,13:17)]I think that the change came when Tilson made it clear that he wanted to talk to Norwich in the Blues World interview and on the radio. His friend Newman made back page headlines, pleading for Tilly to be allowed to talk to Norwich. Ron Martin strangely said that Tilson he thinks was fully committed to the blues.

If I was a player, sold the club by Tilson, staying far from home in a hotel and the manager then gave out clear signals that he wanted to leave, I would be very unhappy.

Most of you will not hear anything against Tilson but he is being found out now. Its a complete and utter shambles, lack of complete team spirit. To Tilly we have been unlucky, open your eyes we are **** poor.

The change came when we got promoted last season to the Championship. It was clear then we would need to have a clearout and bring in new players. It takes time for players to gel, they do not become best mates instantly.

And what utter utter rubbish about Tilson. This is not a "cannot speak a word against him either". Criticise his starting eleven selection, his tactical instructions, or his substitions, BUT to question his committment is absolute bull. The "interview" quotes on that Norwich website had absolutely no substance, and were NEVER ever aired to radio. Tilly did NOT ever make it clear he wanted to talk to Norwich.

As for the bit about Ron Martin thinks Tilly is committed. Is Ron Martin supposed to know?! Is he supposed to be a mind reader now then?!

MC BLUES · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Oct. 22 2006,18:23)]I would agree about positional discipline, mainly on the flanks. Not so sure about discipline in other respects

Certainly our disciplinary record is very good though. Possibly too good. I thought this when Noble chopped down our players on several occasions and prevented us from getting our game flowing.

Fair comment.

I was considering the discipline more from the Management aspect though.

I guess you can argue that a lack of discipline in general terms would spill over to the type of incidents you refer to, and perhaps you are right?

The thing is I'm really not sure!! I just have the horrible feeling that things are slipping from Tilson's command a little. If that is the case then we have big problems?

sufcintheprem · Oct 22, 2006

Given our near policy of bringing in local players, this certainly would be very disappointing and this is why I would be surprised by the news. I would hope that with Barrett, Maher and Prior in the first team squad the bond between management and players would be good.

Again, with no basis, I would also expect that the 'cliques' at the club would be polarised to either Maher or Barrett but this is obviously just from an outsider looking in.

I think we need a confidence boost but if the result at Burnley isn't enough for that, I don't know where it's going to come from. Maybe they should give the SZFC back four a go.

Hazey SUFC · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Murkey_Mouse @ Oct. 22 2006,13:49)]On this display, the 1996/97 SUFC team are the worst team EVER in our history, but this current squad making the WORST team in 1996/97 season look like world beater now.

The squad of 2006/07 season will be the WORST team EVER in our history if the not careful, I would'nt want to be remeber as the player who play a part in a team which more likely to finish bottom with 28 points at end of season.

How can this team be the worst ever Southend team when they are in the championship

MC BLUES · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Alex @ Oct. 22 2006,17:49)]

are you going to give a clue as to who these 2 players wanting out are?[/QUOTE]
To be honest with you the purpose of my post was to discuss a general concern and the mention of the two players was made as a point of illustration rather than as the reason for the post.

I should also say that yes I do hear certain things just as others do, ie, Wrongun, but like him, when I have disclosed a couple of things in the past you usually get shot down pretty quickly with loads of 'I dont believe it' and 'why should we accept that as being the truth' kind of comments.

To be fair though, why should anyone who doesn't actually know me believe anything I say? Also, I hate to play the 'I know something you dont role.' That is probably the quickest way to get people revved up on here!

So it's a difficult balance. If I hear something which I think may be of general interest to everyone who reads these boards, then providing It's kind of safe to do so I might share that info.

For example, I know that most of the squad went out with Captain Kev last night to Faces to celebrate his 30th. But if I had started a post about that a lot of people would think 'so what' or 'there he goes again with stuff he knows' kind of thing... (I am now aware that I have just left my self open to these remarks by mentioning this!!!)

So, sorry for the long winded answer, but in the main I just find it better to not really say too much about things I might have heard on the grapevine so to speak.

I will just add that concerning my reference to the two players, if they did leave I do not think anyone on here would worry too much. There's your clue!!

Shrimper2thecore · Oct 22, 2006

Stop looking for reasons deeper than some games we have found the step up too much, some games we have been lucky, and some games we have done ourselves proud, and believe it or not, its pretty even for the thre of those areas.

sufcintheprem · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Oct. 22 2006,20:15)]I will just add that concerning my reference to the two players, if they did leave I do not think anyone on here would worry too much. There's your clue!!

Judging by recent comments on here, that's a little like saying the player will be someone from the first team squad!

MC BLUES · Oct 22, 2006

[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Oct. 22 2006,20:27)]

[b said:

Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Oct. 22 2006,20:15)]I will just add that concerning my reference to the two players, if they did leave I do not think anyone on here would worry too much. There's your clue!!

Click to expand...

Judging by recent comments on here, that's a little like saying the player will be someone from the first team squad!