Supporters Group News Meeting with Ron 15th

[kentblues]

Doesnt seem like the revenue streams will change if we move tho? We'll just lose our home and a lot of people will get rich and we'll be riding rons benevolence which im sure wont last once the deal is all done n dusted.

I don’t know where the idea the revenue streams won’t change come from. A number of the housing units attached to the stadium will be generating revenue streams, as will additional events & hospitality, the hotel will provide some...this was detailed with the proposals?

 

[kentblues]

Awful news on the ownership of the new ground at FF. Worst fears confirmed as Ron indicates that the club will have a long lease with a rent that won’t be paid. Rinse and repeat of RH scenario.
Until Ron sells up and let’s any new owners buy the stadium as well, the club can’t move forward. Ron has been a millstone round this club’s neck for over 20 years. With all the profit Ron is making from FF you would think he would have the decency to set the club up better than this.

He is but it seems to see it you have to want to see it. For now we will just go around in circles dependent on your start point.

 

[Hegman]

'very exciting times at the football club' - at that point anyone with integrity drops the call surely.

 

[Chairman Trigg]

Its not 24 hrs rs since the meeting and the usual Ron conspiracies are in full flow..."Ron wont write off the debt".....Ron will charge rent we cant afford"....."The stadium will never happen".

Why would Ron spend 25 years and millions only to ruin his asset?....It would apply to any business, the more successful the team and the stadium, the bigger his payday.

There has been plenty of clubs in the past, Chelsea for one, that were sold for £1. Ken Bates had to pay all the debt as did Ron when he took over in 1998.......Why would Ron make SUFC valueless?....If that was ever in his interest this would be the season to do it. Not sign about 8 or 10 players since December.

Still where would we be without someone to hate on the pitch and someone to hate in the stands..

Of course Ron doesn't want to ruin his asset and his payday....However his actions in the last few seasons clearly showed he never had the funds or backing to complete the major project on his own.We are now on the verge of losing our league status because he has created the situation where the ground must take priority over the playing side for his own survival and the clubs.The council of this town should also take some of the blame for helping to create a long drawn out planning application and putting obstacles in the way over many years.Does anyone really believe the council would now be behind the plan if it didn't fulfil its own housing targets and allow the Seaway development no competition from the previous FF plans.[/QUOTE]

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I don’t know where the idea the revenue streams won’t change come from. A number of the housing units attached to the stadium will be generating revenue streams, as will additional events & hospitality, the hotel will provide some...this was detailed with the proposals?

Has there ever been any guarantee that the revenue steams from the housing units will go to the football club ? I doubt the club will even own them !

Has there ever been any guarantee that the revenue stream from the hotel will go to the football club ? I doubt the club will even own it !

How can you hold events and hospitality without a main stand ?

 

[TBV_Dan]

Yeah I get that viewpoint but irregardless of my personal opinion, if a request is made for something not to be made public then it should be heeded really.

This. At the time of Ron talking last night about free agents, I believe he was yet to speak with MM, and was due to catch up with him at some point during the week. Whether or not any of the 3 free agents in question were likely to be offered contracts would be ultimately up to Mark, and not Ron (he made this quite clear, and has said he will back MM with any additions he wishes to make), so nothing is set in stone at all, so not sure where this info came from.

He could have a page in the match day programmes called "Rons Ramblings" which cover his thoughts on the current clubs status etc and then a couple of answers to some fan questions each match

I quite like this idea, and I think it would be a very good start.... but I think a digital version (perhaps a video?) might be a better shout, as opposed to limiting it to just being published in the programmes (not to say quotes cannot be put into the programme afterwards).

To all those who were part of this meeting, and especially to Lord Football for the comprehensive summary.... thank you! We exiles especially depend so much on what we see here on the Zone and this topic's most important to all of us. Thanks again.

I was in attendance last night, and found the meeting incredibly insightful and useful. The point regarding communication is one that, personally speaking, I feel is an area that Ron has really struggled with in the past... example of that most recently was when we were embargoed and he told us in our November meeting it was "a phone call to lift the embargo"... and 3-4 weeks passed since we heard any follow-up to that comment. Situations like that are incredibly frustrating as a supporter, as most of us will have assumed that he likely ran into issues during that phone call meaning more work needed to be done... but not following up on that communication is basically giving those who are already sceptical about Ron's words more ammo to hit back with, and that causes the toxic atmosphere we have seen at times during the last season or two. I'm glad and encouraged that Ron was very much open to improving communication, so hopefully this is something that we will see improvement on over the coming weeks/months.

 

[Strykr]

I don’t know where the idea the revenue streams won’t change come from. A number of the housing units attached to the stadium will be generating revenue streams, as will additional events & hospitality, the hotel will provide some...this was detailed with the proposals?

I remember talks of this. Also recall talks of hospitality income being attached to the main stand which wont even be built first?

Do people know any figures. Will revenue accrued be substantial enough to support in perpetuity a (hopefully) still league 2 club? Aside from rm making a bundle and roots hall falling down, economics wise the new housing development and prime real estate that results in the demolition of roots hall surely must somehow mean financial gains not just for rm but for the club or whats the point?

Can some of the more financially astute sz members clarify the short and long term potential finances of FF or does this need to be pursued with more questions to ron?

 

[rigsby]

West Ham don't own their own stadium and they are doing Ok at the

Of course Ron doesn't want to ruin his asset and his payday....However his actions in the last few seasons clearly showed he never had the funds or backing to complete the major project on his own.We are now on the verge of losing our league status because he has created the situation where the ground must take priority over the playing side for his own survival and the clubs.The council of this town should also take some of the blame for helping to create a long drawn out planning application and putting obstacles in the way over many years.Does anyone really believe the council would now be behind the plan if it didn't fulfil its own housing targets and allow the Seaway development no competition from the previous FF plans.

For a start when Ron took over and paid off our debt, to the tune of £4.5m..Weren't we about to go bust, I mean forget signing 10 players in January with enough games to save ourselves. Or forget dropping into the national league... I mean do a Bury.

Do some of you think that debt would never have to be paid? Not only that, do any of you think you can borrow £4.5m and not pay interest for 25 years?.....If you do, my advise is not to pay off your gambling debts with a loan from John Gotti.

As far as i'm aware Ron never has claimed he had the funds nor have I ever believed he would be funding the stadium. It was always going to be Sainsbury's.....They get RH and build us a stadium in return.

Rons earner would be to sell a Championship club (he hoped) to a mythical billionaire who would fly in on a unicorn land on the centre circle. The new sugar daddy would then enjoy nothing more than wasting £50m per year making us a PL team......And we would all live happily every after without a single complaint, even about onions in burgers.

The biggest problem with plan A was Sainsbury's. If you don't know the history then you shouldn't be commenting on this thread.

Plan B involved British Land who quickly realised their idea of a retail park was not viable in a dying town let down over decades by successive town councils.

So we are now close to plan C. which suits the council and Ron gets someone to build houses at RH. Houses that he never expected, just like none of us did when the Sainsbury's plan was launched.....I remember a stadium being mooted in 1984 but perhaps someone can let us know when Sainsbury's were first mentioned?

Finally and crucially Ron is going nowhere. You can scream and door slam all you like but Ron will see through the FF project. When he sells it all on then the new owner has a choice of buying the business and the stadium with it, just like any other business deal. Why people have such difficulty with that I'm not sure.

Either way us fans wont own anything and we never will. That boat sailed long before the PL money made that scenario impossible in the future.

Now Mr Trigg, once we can all agree on the facts so far....Then we can have a discussion about Ron.......For those of you who wont admit to the above my question is why?.....You can still hate Ron, he can still be your bogyman or your Keyser Soze. I for one don't think anyone has to be guilty at a lynching party, where's the fun in that. After all, allowing myth and hysteria to rid us of mangers has worked well, so lets get Ron out...It simply cannot get any worse....As any fan of the 30 odd clubs who have been relegated out of L2 will tell you.

 

[kentblues]

Has there ever been any guarantee that the revenue steams from the housing units will go to the football club ? I doubt the club will even own them !

Has there ever been any guarantee that the revenue stream from the hotel will go to the football club ? I doubt the club will even own it !

How can you hold events and hospitality without a main stand ?

To my point you don’t want to believe what you are told. This does not make it untrue.
So we all have to wait and see because whatever the “guarantee” I doubt it will be good enough.
Probably we need to pin some where what has been published previously on the proposals as so much gets forgotten/airbrushed out/not believed or whatever

 

[kentblues]

West Ham don't own their own stadium and they are doing Ok at the



For a start when Ron took over and paid off our debt, to the tune of £4.5m..Weren't we about to go bust, I mean forget signing 10 players in January with enough games to save ourselves. Or forget dropping into the national league... I mean do a Bury.

Do some of you think that debt would never have to be paid? Not only that, do any of you think you can borrow £4.5m and not pay interest for 25 years?.....If you do, my advise is not to pay off your gambling debts with a loan from John Gotti.

As far as i'm aware Ron never has claimed he had the funds nor have I ever believed he would be funding the stadium. It was always going to be Sainsbury's.....They get RH and build us a stadium in return.

Rons earner would be to sell a Championship club (he hoped) to a mythical billionaire who would fly in on a unicorn land on the centre circle. The new sugar daddy would then enjoy nothing more than wasting £50m per year making us a PL team......And we would all live happily every after without a single complaint, even about onions in burgers.

The biggest problem with plan A was Sainsbury's. If you don't know the history then you shouldn't be commenting on this thread.

Plan B involved British Land who quickly realised their idea of a retail park was not viable in a dying town let down over decades by successive town councils.

So we are now close to plan C. which suits the council and Ron gets someone to build houses at RH. Houses that he never expected, just like none of us did when the Sainsbury's plan was launched.....I remember a stadium being mooted in 1984 but perhaps someone can let us know when Sainsbury's were first mentioned?

Finally and crucially Ron is going nowhere. You can scream and door slam all you like but Ron will see through the FF project. When he sells it all on then the new owner has a choice of buying the business and the stadium with it, just like any other business deal. Why people have such difficulty with that I'm not sure.

Either way us fans wont own anything and we never will. That boat sailed long before the PL money made that scenario impossible in the future.

Now Mr Trigg, once we can all agree on the facts so far....Then we can have a discussion about Ron.......For those of you who wont admit to the above my question is why?.....You can still hate Ron, he can still be your bogyman or your Keyser Soze. I for one don't think anyone has to be guilty at a lynching party, where the fun in that. After all, allowing myth and hysteria to rid us of mangers has worked well, so lets get Ron out...It simply cannot get any worse....As any fan of the 30 odd clubs who have been relegated out of L2 will tell you.

I fear you are allowing the facts to get in the way of a good story Rigsby...

 

[GDM]

West Ham don't own their own stadium and they are doing Ok at the



For a start when Ron took over and paid off our debt, to the tune of £4.5m..Weren't we about to go bust, I mean forget signing 10 players in January with enough games to save ourselves. Or forget dropping into the national league... I mean do a Bury.

Do some of you think that debt would never have to be paid? Not only that, do any of you think you can borrow £4.5m and not pay interest for 25 years?.....If you do, my advise is not to pay off your gambling debts with a loan from John Gotti.

As far as i'm aware Ron never has claimed he had the funds nor have I ever believed he would be funding the stadium. It was always going to be Sainsbury's.....They get RH and build us a stadium in return.

Rons earner would be to sell a Championship club (he hoped) to a mythical billionaire who would fly in on a unicorn land on the centre circle. The new sugar daddy would then enjoy nothing more than wasting £50m per year making us a PL team......And we would all live happily every after without a single complaint, even about onions in burgers.

The biggest problem with plan A was Sainsbury's. If you don't know the history then you shouldn't be commenting on this thread.

Plan B involved British Land who quickly realised their idea of a retail park was not viable in a dying town let down over decades by successive town councils.

So we are now close to plan C. which suits the council and Ron gets someone to build houses at RH. Houses that he never expected, just like none of us did when the Sainsbury's plan was launched.....I remember a stadium being mooted in 1984 but perhaps someone can let us know when Sainsbury's were first mentioned?

Finally and crucially Ron is going nowhere. You can scream and door slam all you like but Ron will see through the FF project. When he sells it all on then the new owner has a choice of buying the business and the stadium with it, just like any other business deal. Why people have such difficulty with that I'm not sure.

Either way us fans wont own anything and we never will. That boat sailed long before the PL money made that scenario impossible in the future.

Now Mr Trigg, once we can all agree on the facts so far....Then we can have a discussion about Ron.......For those of you who wont admit to the above my question is why?.....You can still hate Ron, he can still be your bogyman or your Keyser Soze. I for one don't think anyone has to be guilty at a lynching party, where's the fun in that. After all, allowing myth and hysteria to rid us of mangers has worked well, so lets get Ron out...It simply cannot get any worse....As any fan of the 30 odd clubs who have been relegated out of L2 will tell you.

He paid off out debt because he saw a way of making a lot of money - lets not pretend he was some shining knight to save our live. BTW I have no problem with that at all

It's taken him far far longer to make this money due to reasons you mention among many others

I don't believe his money making was from selling the club to a billionaire - I think you've just made that bit up :-)

The funny thing is plan C likely makes Ron much more money that plan A or B ever would have.

He sells to a new owner - the club itself is pretty worthless, the stadium & training facilities are not...but he's made his millions from the move - wouldn't it be wonderful if that is gifted over to a trust or some such thing - so we are never in this position again?

I'm actually much more worried about the next owner of our club...it's likely he's going to be worse that Ron, so that person not having a stadium to have massive loans against or sell to rent back at high rates will prevent these types of people buying our club

 

[rigsby]

I fear you are allowing the facts to get in the way of a good story Rigsby...

Facts often upset people on here and as we have seen recently 'People in the Know' are also targeted....For what reason I really don't know. I find some of their posts worth 100 blind rants full of assumption.

Ron did not underfund the team, or divert money into the FF project.....In fact he hasn't even collected his rent.

What he has done is spend far to much on wages. Some of it forced due to injuries. Thats why were are where we are and thats a point worth debating. Its the very reason why clubs have gone bust and will continue to do so.

 

[londonblue]

I don’t know where the idea the revenue streams won’t change come from. A number of the housing units attached to the stadium will be generating revenue streams, as will additional events & hospitality, the hotel will provide some...this was detailed with the proposals?

But if SUFC don't own the stadium how will they benefit from the rent from these properties? Unless they're effectively subletting them I suppose.

The revenue streams will be better if the club can benefit from them, the hotel and the conference facilities, but that is now very much in question.

 

[kentblues]

But if SUFC don't own the stadium how will they benefit from the rent from these properties? Unless they're effectively subletting them I suppose.

The revenue streams will be better if the club can benefit from them, the hotel and the conference facilities, but that is now very much in question.

In the same way as if a business leases or rents a HQ/building/retail outlet/hotel/pub- it then benefits from the money that it generates from that business. The club itself does not need to own the stadium to benefit from the revenue streams it generates.

Actually I have known many businesses over the years where the factory/production facility or HQ is leased by the company from a separate related company who owns the building. Normally in part to "protect" the main asset should the company run into financial difficulty.

 

[londonblue]

In the same way as if a business leases or rents a HQ/building/retail outlet/hotel/pub- it then benefits from the money that it generates from that business. The club itself does not need to own the stadium to benefit from the revenue streams it generates.

Actually I have known many businesses over the years where the factory/production facility or HQ is leased by the company from a separate related company who owns the building. Normally in part to "protect" the main asset should the company run into financial difficulty.

Agreed, but it depends on the detail, which we don't know. For example, West Ham don't benefit from the athletics and other events that are held at the London Stadium.

Unless you have inside information your guess (because that is all it is) is as good as mine. All I'm saying is that the revenue streams are not certain and worst case we'll not be a huge amount better off than we are now.

I'd like to think that the debts to other debtors will be paid, and Ron will write off the rent debt for Roots Hall. If that is the case at least we start with a clean slate. However, if he owns the stadium we build up another debt because of rent that is not paid then we're just building up more debt to replace the debt he has written off.

Worst case, he then also takes the rent for the integrated facilities such as the hotel and residential. Best case, SUFC do. But we simply don't know, and the idea that he wants to retain ownership of the stadium even after making tens of millions from the deal means (in my mind) that there is a big question mark over that.

 

[Whispering Bob]

Finally and crucially Ron is going nowhere. You can scream and door slam all you like but Ron will see through the FF project. When he sells it all on then the new owner has a choice of buying the business and the stadium with it, just like any other business deal. Why people have such difficulty with that I'm not sure.

The new owner would have fun pouring over our books.....can somebody remind me when our accounts were last published please?

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

the last accounts that have been filed were for period ending 31st Jul 2018. The 31st July 2019 accounts still haven't been filed, and they were due by 31st July 2020

 

[rigsby]

He paid off out debt because he saw a way of making a lot of money - lets not pretend he was some shining knight to save our live. BTW I have no problem with that at all

It's taken him far far longer to make this money due to reasons you mention among many others

I don't believe his money making was from selling the club to a billionaire - I think you've just made that bit up :-)

The funny thing is plan C likely makes Ron much more money that plan A or B ever would have.

He sells to a new owner - the club itself is pretty worthless, the stadium & training facilities are not...but he's made his millions from the move - wouldn't it be wonderful if that is gifted over to a trust or some such thing - so we are never in this position again?

I'm actually much more worried about the next owner of our club...it's likely he's going to be worse that Ron, so that person not having a stadium to have massive loans against or sell to rent back at high rates will prevent these types of people buying our club

Paragraph 1 and 2....I fully agree with.

like most of us I said it at the time and have never thought different. In fact based on gossip and rumour I fully admit I thought we would be going under and Ron had the means and the motive to make that happen.

But one of the most important lessons i have learnt in life is judge a man on his actions. Talk is cheap but actions speak volumes.

Debts or not, since the day he took over we have finished higher. 3 promotions and of course 3 (so far) relegations with trips to Cardiff and Wembley. Big investment in creating the academy.

Fans got sick of reading about Sainsbury's, college on/off land sales and of course our pathetic council.....imagine being in Ron's shoes......Yes you argue there is a pot of gold at the end of the Rainbow but the risk is it may never be found. As I have posted before Ron would have made more money away from football but i believe he has become a fan over the years.

One thing is for certain he hasn't chosen the easy option, which was L2 safety until FF gets the green light. Nor has he chose the option that some other scumbag chairman would do....Go bust and build on the land.

The stadium sounds grand and is for Championship rather than L2. So to me that said Ron was looking to sell as soon as we mover in. With the Dutch boys taking an interest i now firmly believe Ron wants to hand over the project as soon as its gets full approval.

I will also take his word, when he spoke to a small group of us, that the debt will be cancelled and that the club will have further revenue from some of the flats etc......Of course none of us will know the truth until the day of reckoning.

What I will suggest to some of the most angry Ron haters is whats the point in worrying and claiming things that in reality are very unlikely to happen.....Save your battle for the new owners its them that will be building the 4th stand but the good news is its the stand where all the money is so its in theirs and our interest to complete it.

In the meantime i'm going to worry about Bolton on Saturday and so should some of you.

 

[sufc4life21]

With regards to the new stadium, just build the bloudy thing! Most of the other efl clubs have moved on and built new stadia...... my only hope its 4 sides instead of 3! roots hall is now at the stage where it should be consigned to the history books...... no more excuses!

 

[Rayleigh boy]

contracts would be ultimately up to Mark, and not Ron (he made this quite clear, and has said he will back MM with any additions he wishes to make)

I am afraid this is not at all realistic -

I am sure there is a conversation and recommendations but ...