Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[Westcliff DGS]

The idea of expanding leagues, even if for a season, was the very obvious solution here as well as in Scotland and the other leagues.

There is a feeling here with Tranmere I think that once it gets to the courts the league know they are on very the ice legally, and only then start actively considering this obvious solution. If Tranmere got an injunction would the EFL follow Ligue 1?

In Scotland Hearts didn't go legal but accepted a review of the league structure that would have kept them and others up. Unfortunately this was by the clubs who then reverted to type and just thought about themselves. So again, Hearts will now go to court, again the league will ask the clubs to consider restructure and the clubs this time may have the choice of agreeing to do it or being forced to do it (even if only for one season).

I cannot see the prem being expanded here in England, was taken of the agenda very early on. The EPL want to “protect” their teams as they have the European competitions as well. Same for Scotland but they play less games league wise as it stands so slightly easier to accommodate.

I said 3 months ago, was laughed at, that it would go legal people will only look after themselves and their own clubs finances and well being. This is now where it will get very messy.

I said everyone needs to realise this is bigger than one team, every body needs to put is own agendas aside and do whats best, however it won’t happen said to say its come to pass.

 

[southendkid]

I cannot see the prem being expanded here in England, was taken of the agenda very early on. The EPL want to “protect” their teams as they have the European competitions as well. Same for Scotland but they play less games league wise as it stands so slightly easier to accommodate.

I said 3 months ago, was laughed at, that it would go legal people will only look after themselves and their own clubs finances and well being. This is now where it will get very messy.

I said everyone needs to realise this is bigger than one team, every body needs to put is own agendas aside and do whats best, however it won’t happen said to say its come to pass.

Would the Premier League need to expand the league? Surely if relegation is scrapped it would only apply to leagues that can't be finished, since the top 2 tiers are planned to be completed relegation would still apply to them.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Would the Premier League need to expand the league? Surely if relegation is scrapped it would only apply to leagues that can't be finished, since the top 2 tiers are planned to be completed relegation would still apply to them.

If it is scrapped in the EFL then the relegated prem teams would argue the same, as the Championship is likely to finish as well. If they are not relegated it would go to 23 teams.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

If it is scrapped in the EFL then the relegated prem teams would argue the same, as the Championship is likely to finish as well. If they are not relegated it would go to 23 teams.

I can see them arguing the case (every chairman is arguing in self-interest at the moment!) however I think @southendkid has a point - if a league plays to a conclusion then it's more difficult to argue against relegation than when it was finished early and PPG applied.

Therefore Prem. and Championship stay the same, League 1 has four coming up and nobody down for next season which means we'd be up to 27 teams - 6 extra league games per team (to more than make up for the loss of the Bury games last season). You could scrap the Checkatrade for a season to make space for the extra games. I think that was in essence the Barnsley suggestion that was rejected, although they wanted to apply it to the Championship as well.

It's not entirely unfeasible, although does lead to a smaller League 2, but you could balance the books by promoting all the teams in the National League play-offs as well (yes, I know that then has a knock on effect too!).

Would need to be balanced by mega-relegations the following season though as a rebalancing exercise.

 

[kentblues]

Would the Premier League need to expand the league? Surely if relegation is scrapped it would only apply to leagues that can't be finished, since the top 2 tiers are planned to be completed relegation would still apply to them.

You are correct (also what Shimpergarry says) - they would only need to expand L1 and L2 for a season- although the current financial challenges may even take that problem away. Simple solution- I get the feeling if the EFL look at this they almost want to be forced to, so they can says its not our fault we are being made to do it. Who knows. Just another uncertainty.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

I can see them arguing the case (every chairman is arguing in self-interest at the moment!) however I think @southendkid has a point - if a league plays to a conclusion then it's more difficult to argue against relegation than when it was finished early and PPG applied.

Therefore Prem. and Championship stay the same, League 1 has four coming up and nobody down for next season which means we'd be up to 27 teams - 6 extra league games per team (to more than make up for the loss of the Bury games last season). You could scrap the Checkatrade for a season to make space for the extra games. I think that was in essence the Barnsley suggestion that was rejected, although they wanted to apply it to the Championship as well.

It's not entirely unfeasible, although does lead to a smaller League 2, but you could balance the books by promoting all the teams in the National League play-offs as well (yes, I know that then has a knock on effect too!).

Would need to be balanced by mega-relegations the following season though as a rebalancing exercise.

I didnt say he didnt have a point but if the leagues were to rule no relegation the the championship clubs (Barnsley have already indicated this) would look to take action, so of no teams went down from the championship, then the prem teams would argue the same thats all i am saying.

The assumption and logic that seems sensible hasnt been all the way through so why would that change now when the EFL seemly make up the rules as they go along

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

I didnt say he didnt have a point but if the leagues were to rule no relegation the the championship clubs (Barnsley have already indicated this) would look to take action, so of no teams went down from the championship, then the prem teams would argue the same thats all i am saying.

The assumption and logic that seems sensible hasnt been all the way through so why would that change now when the EFL seemly make up the rules as they go along

I agree that they (Barnsley) and consequently the relegated Prem teams may argue and possibly take action. It would seem though that there's less of a case to answer once all games had been played. Relegation is at least on merit and after a complete season.

The whole thing is flawed and as you say making the rules up as you go along is really not a sound basis for running a lucrative competition like this.

 

[kentblues]

I agree that they (Barnsley) and consequently the relegated Prem teams may argue and possibly take action. It would seem though that there's less of a case to answer once all games had been played. Relegation is at least on merit and after a complete season.

The whole thing is flawed and as you say making the rules up as you go along is really not a sound basis for running a lucrative competition like this.

If the Prem and Championship seasons complete their seasons they will be relegated under the current rules and regulations. Seasons will be complete, promotions and relegations valid and legal. The issue would only happen with say Barnsley, if the Championship didn't complete and the EFL then sought to relegate them under PPG. This frankly looks very unlikely now so probably the EFL only need to worry about L1 & L2 for this season.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

I agree that they (Barnsley) and consequently the relegated Prem teams may argue and possibly take action. It would seem though that there's less of a case to answer once all games had been played. Relegation is at least on merit and after a complete season.

The whole thing is flawed and as you say making the rules up as you go along is really not a sound basis for running a lucrative competition like this.

I fully agree

 

[Westcliff DGS]

If the Prem and Championship seasons complete their seasons they will be relegated under the current rules and regulations. Seasons will be complete, promotions and relegations valid and legal. The issue would only happen with say Barnsley, if the Championship didn't complete and the EFL then sought to relegate them under PPG. This frankly looks very unlikely now so probably the EFL only need to worry about L1 & L2 for this season.

We seem to generally agree. I would say in Barnsley’s cased they have let it be known that if they do not relegate on all leagues they will look at their options.

I don’t think they would have a case but they have said that.

 

[kentblues]

We seem to generally agree. I would say in Barnsley’s cased they have let it be known that if they do not relegate on all leagues they will look at their options.

I don’t think they would have a case but they have said that.

Indeed, there is an obvious difference between being relegated under the rules you signed up to at the beginning of the season and under PPG with the season not completed. Barnsley is just bluster as was Peterborough. As you say I think we are all on the same page.

Anyway interested bystanders we are I guess.

 

[Injury time winner]

I can see them arguing the case (every chairman is arguing in self-interest at the moment!) however I think @southendkid has a point - if a league plays to a conclusion then it's more difficult to argue against relegation than when it was finished early and PPG applied.

Therefore Prem. and Championship stay the same, League 1 has four coming up and nobody down for next season which means we'd be up to 27 teams - 6 extra league games per team (to more than make up for the loss of the Bury games last season). You could scrap the Checkatrade for a season to make space for the extra games. I think that was in essence the Barnsley suggestion that was rejected, although they wanted to apply it to the Championship as well.

It's not entirely unfeasible, although does lead to a smaller League 2, but you could balance the books by promoting all the teams in the National League play-offs as well (yes, I know that then has a knock on effect too!).

Would need to be balanced by mega-relegations the following season though as a rebalancing exercise.

The main issue I see with expanding Leagues with no relegation is a financial one. The TV money etc money will have to distributed over 27 teams in L1 which may tip many other struggling clubs over the edge. Likewise, the Championship cash would have to be split the same. As there would be 4 extra clubs in the EFL, I doubt the PL would fund an addiitional solidarity payments required, even for a season.

Also, there may be issues with sponsorship/PL payments for B teams in not playing the Checkatrade Trophy. I suspect the money from the Checkatrade may be very important for a number of clubs in the next season or so considering it works out a reasonable sum for lower league clubs.

So whilst the league fixtures could be fitted in, diluting the central money may well end up killing some clubs off unless an additiional source of money can be found to make up the difference.

For transparency purposes, I am an Oxford United fan, who originally signed up to see your responses to winding up petitions as we had a few ourselves. And on this occasion, I'm looking for a distraction from lockdown. ?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Welcome Ox fan! All contributions to the debate are very welcome on the Zone.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Barrow promoted

 

[Ricey]

Barrow promoted

640 mile round trip from Southend... nice.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Yep a great trip, nice to have another new ground to visit. Let's hope fans can go.

 

[Chrisb]

Barrow promoted

After 48 years in non-league - I cannot believe it is that long since watching them at Roots Hall, makes me feel old !

 

[Chairman Trigg]

Interesting article by the Blackpool chairman stating that a number of clubs could easily go under .Also stated the fact
In the past [before the Premier League breakaway in 1992] it used to be 50-50 between the First Division and the other three divisions; now 93% stays in the Premier League and 7% is distributed.”

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Interesting article by the Blackpool chairman stating that a number of clubs could easily go under .Also stated the fact
In the past [before the Premier League breakaway in 1992] it used to be 50-50 between the First Division and the other three divisions; now 93% stays in the Premier League and 7% is distributed.”

There want much live football on TV prior to the prem starting and then that was the focus and not the lower leagues, probably where the % share changed. Not that is makes it right bit probably the reason why

 

[OldBlueLady]

Barrow will be a great chance for a mini break in the Lake District!