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Ritblat

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You've obviously done a lot of research. Can you back this up by giving an example of when this has happened in the past?


No, hence the word "maybe" in that sentence and expression "hopefully not"

Recall the desision was first due in early January.

Anyone could call the planning inspectorate and ask when they now expect to deliver. If 100's were to do so, they might pull their fingures out.
 
No, hence the word "maybe" in that sentence and expression "hopefully not"

Recall the desision was first due in early January.

Anyone could call the planning inspectorate and ask when they now expect to deliver. If 100's were to do so, they might pull their fingures out.

Isn't this the problem though, I-I? Surely you do need to do the research before making some of these insinuations? And you "recall" the decision was due in early January - yet I "recall" some speculation to that effect but that the official word was always end-Feb/March.

I don't doubt that you feel the need to dig into this, and that the answers might be very interesting to all SUFC fans, but surely you should stick to posting only proven facts and keep the rest of it to yourself until you can back it up?
 
1. In law, sub judice, Latin for "under judgment," means that a particular case or matter is currently under trial or being considered by a judge or court. As far as we are aware this is still a police investigation, and therefore it is not Sub Judice.


A: Proceedings are pending and may come before a court. It is inappropriate as a minimum to discuss the evidence.


2. I think the average "outsider" who reads your posts without any background information would assume that Ron Martin has been charged. As far as I am aware he has not, and the suggestion or implication that he has could be seen to be defamatory.


A: A statement appeared in the Echo on Friday evening. Using your argument you might think that Ron has by "implication" libelled himself ? Nonsense and non-sensical statement.


3. Andee - I agree that but all Irate Ian has posted so far has been written in a fairly obscure/impenetrable style, and when you analyse what he posts carefully, some of it makes no sense at all. I refer you to his post about Ron having an office in Chelmsford which went on for several paragraphs about having seen Ron in Chelmsford, offered no other evidence whatsoever, and then commands that we do not suggest any longer that Ron doesn't have any offices in Chelmsford. A subject like this needs to be dealt with sensibly, and sensitively, and I can't see that this thread does either.


A: The response was from a thread which asserted that Ron only works from Southend [Roots Hall]. It was necessary to demonstrate/show how that could be proven to not be the case to the enquirer.


Finally: If Planning Officers/Council Officials have come under scrutiny in their dealings with RM in one instance, his position concerning any other developments in other council areas; it is entirely reasonable to assume his links and associations are coming under wider scrutiny NO MATTER HOW DISTASTEFUL HE AND OTHERS MAY FIND THAT TO BE.


QED
 
Quote:


A: Proceedings are pending and may come before a court. It is inappropriate as a minimum to discuss the evidence.

So it isn't Sub Judice. It has never in this country been innapropriate to discuss the evidence if a case is not Sub Judice. And what are you doing if not discussing the evidence - you started this in several different forums. A funny way of not discussing it.


A: A statement appeared in the Echo on Friday evening. Using your argument you might think that Ron has by "implication" libelled himself ? Nonsense and non-sensical statement.

Ron was putting his side of the situation, which as he hasn't been charged he is perfectly at liberty to do. At no time did he say he had been charged. What are you on about???






A: The response was from a thread which asserted that Ron only works from Southend [Roots Hall]. It was necessary to demonstrate/show how that could be proven to not be the case to the enquirer.

How on earth did rambling on (sorry, but that is what you did) about having seen Ron in Chelmsford once prove that he "works from Chelmsford"? He may do, but you have palpably failed to provide any evidence that he even has a desk and chair in Chelmsford, let alone works from there.



Finally: If Planning Officers/Council Officials have come under scrutiny in their dealings with RM in one instance, his position concerning any other developments in other council areas; it is entirely reasonable to assume his links and associations are coming under wider scrutiny NO MATTER HOW DISTASTEFUL HE AND OTHERS MAY FIND THAT TO BE.


QED

QED means "It has been shown". Despite your numerous postings you have NOT shown anything.

You have postulated an interesting point, Viz: "Who is ultimately behind Ron and therefore who might have more control over the club/ground than we would like" and I would be interested in the answer.

But you have dressed the whole thing up in psuedo-legalise, made all sorts of hints and suggestions, some of which I feel border on the libellous, and when challenged to provide examples for some of the dire consequences you predict you are unable to do so. I cannot see that what you are doing on this forum is in any way of benefit to the Club, the supporters, or the members of Shrimperzone. How about you actually DO some research and come back when you have hard facts and not insinuations?
 
"I cannot see that what you are doing on this forum is in any way of benefit to the Club, the supporters, or the members of Shrimperzone."

I maybe think Ian has a bone to Chew, Little actual "Facts " so far...Of Course Ron has history ..nobody is infallible to accusations or mistakes in there business life,such is the Ilk of it. It is complete madness to think Ron is a Saint as I am not ...This perpetual digging up some form of grime or betrayal to the club today has No merit ....I think It is best to actually thank what he has done for the Club rather that condem every hint of a Rat...I have never doubted he hopefully will make something from the efforts he has put in these last few years to bring stability to the once sinking ship....

Ian, I respect your points on this ..although in my eyes they have little substance, just "poking around"...If you would like me to pass To Ron specific questions ..PM me with them .....I am seeing him Tuesday night with Lee from The Blue Voice...As far as I am concerned with previous meetings he has answered all questions we have asked ..and been totally open and honest even to the detriment of himself at times..He has never come across as infallible...But if you have specific questions ...Fire away..

John.

PS: There is No delay in the decision it was always March the 6th.
 
Shrimpador, I would suggest if this type of thread bores you, do not read it.
I am finding these threads interesting maybe because i am naturally cautious and such want to make sure there is nothing nasty about to rear it's head.

There is nothing wrong with ensuring that all is good now and that our future will not be jeopardised by this move. I have not seen Irate Ian say that Ron is an asset stripper however my take is that he just wants to make sure that benefit of Fossets Farm is primarily for SUFC. I am sure we are all in agreement with that sentiment.

This type of thread does not bore me, but Irate Ian's factless accusations do.

Your second paragraph sums up the situation perfectly and you managed to do that in two sentences instead of the pages of gibberish that we've seen posted on here the last few days.
 
Why descend to personal abuse?

Combination of my personal opinion after reading I-I's posts on here and my response to his use of the word "colt", one of many examples of condescending language he has used. He clearly thinks he is a step ahead of everyone else and I find his arrogance quite hard to stomach.
 
"I cannot see that what you are doing on this forum is in any way of benefit to the Club, the supporters, or the members of Shrimperzone."

I maybe think Ian has a bone to Chew, Little actual "Facts " so far...Of Course Ron has history ..nobody is infallible to accusations or mistakes in there business life,such is the Ilk of it. It is complete madness to think Ron is a Saint as I am not ...This perpetual digging up some form of grime or betrayal to the club today has No merit ....I think It is best to actually thank what he has done for the Club rather that condem every hint of a Rat...I have never doubted he hopefully will make something from the efforts he has put in these last few years to bring stability to the once sinking ship....

Ian, I respect your points on this ..although in my eyes they have little substance, just "poking around"...If you would like me to pass To Ron specific questions ..PM me with them .....I am seeing him Tuesday night with Lee from The Blue Voice...As far as I am concerned with previous meetings he has answered all questions we have asked ..and been totally open and honest even to the detriment of himself at times..He has never come across as infallible...But if you have specific questions ...Fire away..

John.

PS: There is No delay in the decision it was always March the 6th.


Thanks John,



FAO: Shrimperzone Forum Members



I am "poking around" as you put it is for various reasons, but principally that RM has declined to disclose following my prior requests across the club official site circa 3 weeks ago, information which I feel should be in the public domain and is of concern to me as a life supporter of the club.

My poking around is well intended, but I would stress that I have concern only for SUFC & SUFC only - as opposed to any Property Development Company. I nail my colours to the mast, in avoidance as to any doubt as to my interests.

On the working assumption and earnest hope that permission may be forthcoming, If Ron can provide answers, I and like minded supporters would appreciate his disclosure, of the following:-


1. Who [names of all consortia members] or what corporation [and names of their shareholders] are the beneficial owners of the land on which the Fossetts development is proposed.

2. In consideration for the release of restrictive covenant of use of land at Roots Hall now or previously, what if any long term security of tenure are SUFC to be granted at the proposed new stadia and by what vehicle or deed.

3. What terms of lease and anticipated rent is to be payable [and to whom] by SUFC at Fossetts. Also what termly rent reviews are proposed.

3a Does Ron feel that because of his possible need to maximise profits from the development, that he has any possible conflict of interest with the needs of SUFC to remain solvent during its use and occupation of the stadium.

3b If the immediate landlord sells the freehold, will any provision for SUFC being protrected against eviction be envisaged.

3c In the event of SUFC Ltd entering any form of Insolvency, will the football team trading under the name of Southend United be given first refusal to continue use and occupation under identical terms as SUFC Ltd under the proposed Lease or Trust Deed so that perpetual occupation by any re-incarnation of Southend United only be first assured ?

4. Who will be [a] the immediate and the residual landlord.

5. Will there be a right of forfeiture of lease for faliure to pay rent on a timely basis or other covenants.

6. Will SUFC have sole use of the stadium and capability to derive benefit of income from other permitted uses.

7. What other uses are envisaged.

8. Does RM envisage SUFC being capable of meeting payment of rent based upon the projected operating costs of SUFC at the new stadium.

9. What are the projected financials viz can the club sustain to trade with the overheads that are anticipated.

9a Do the financials assume higher level of average gate, if so what average number?

9b How was this number estimated and what if any market research may have been undertaken and will this be published, if so, when.

9c Has Ron considered raising capital by SUFC from its supporters by other than purchase of shares; for the advance purchase of season cards for [a] more than one year life [c] perpetual [in form of some type of foundation debenture purchase as with the Royal Albert Hall]

10 What liabilites are presently subsisting to the owners of Roots Hall by SUFC in respect of [a] rent service charges or other liability.

11 What is to be done concerning these liabilities if the development proceeds.

12 What if any pre-conditions are anticipated for advance purchase of season cards for above 1 year.

13 Will any purchase include all/or any events taking place at the stadium.

14 If not, will season card holders be afforded first refusal on other than football events in "their" seats.

15 What other information can Ron disclose to supporters that will serve to enable a greater understanding of the proposed legacy he anticipates bestowing upon SUFC in return for the club being the vehicle by which his or other development companies can ultimately re-develop the site of Roots Hall.


If any Shrimperzone members have any additional questions, would they contact John and please publish.

Await with interest Rons thoughts and comments.


Southend Utd 1st and last.



Ian Walker
 
We got there in the end - some good questions.

Have you asked some of the questions (regarding stadium use & protecting SUFC) to the planners/councillors - maybe some conditions to planning could be added to address some of these concerns?
 
I think a lot of those are excellent questions. Qu. 1 should be information available at the Land Registry. Qu. 2 is hugely important. Qu. 6 and 7 are a bit more peripheral - do we really care?

But yes, I think we'd all feel reassured for the future of the club if those questions were answered.

Matt
 
We got there in the end - some good questions.

Have you asked some of the questions (regarding stadium use & protecting SUFC) to the planners/councillors - maybe some conditions to planning could be added to address some of these concerns?


I did so in my reply to the Planning Inspectorate.

But I have a particularly busy business life and not had time to do so to Southend Planners.

Anyone who wishes to copy and forward to planning department be my quest, not copyrighted - in the public domain.


Southend Utd 1st and last.
 
Thanks John,



FAO: Shrimperzone Forum Members



I am "poking around" as you put it is for various reasons, but principally that RM has declined to disclose following my prior requests across the club official site circa 3 weeks ago, information which I feel should be in the public domain and is of concern to me as a life supporter of the club.

My poking around is well intended, but I would stress that I have concern only for SUFC & SUFC only - as opposed to any Property Development Company. I nail my colours to the mast, in avoidance as to any doubt as to my interests.

On the working assumption and earnest hope that permission may be forthcoming, If Ron can provide answers, I and like minded supporters would appreciate his disclosure, of the following:-


1. Who [names of all consortia members] or what corporation [and names of their shareholders] are the beneficial owners of the land on which the Fossetts development is proposed.

2. In consideration for the release of restrictive covenant of use of land at Roots Hall now or previously, what if any long term security of tenure are SUFC to be granted at the proposed new stadia and by what vehicle or deed.

3. What terms of lease and anticipated rent is to be payable [and to whom] by SUFC at Fossetts. Also what termly rent reviews are proposed.

3a Does Ron feel that because of his possible need to maximise profits from the development, that he has any possible conflict of interest with the needs of SUFC to remain solvent during its use and occupation of the stadium.

3b If the immediate landlord sells the freehold, will any provision for SUFC being protrected against eviction be envisaged.

3c In the event of SUFC Ltd entering any form of Insolvency, will the football team trading under the name of Southend United be given first refusal to continue use and occupation under identical terms as SUFC Ltd under the proposed Lease or Trust Deed so that perpetual occupation by any re-incarnation of Southend United only be first assured ?

4. Who will be [a] the immediate and the residual landlord.

5. Will there be a right of forfeiture of lease for faliure to pay rent on a timely basis or other covenants.

6. Will SUFC have sole use of the stadium and capability to derive benefit of income from other permitted uses.

7. What other uses are envisaged.

8. Does RM envisage SUFC being capable of meeting payment of rent based upon the projected operating costs of SUFC at the new stadium.

9. What are the projected financials viz can the club sustain to trade with the overheads that are anticipated.

9a Do the financials assume higher level of average gate, if so what average number?

9b How was this number estimated and what if any market research may have been undertaken and will this be published, if so, when.

9c Has Ron considered raising capital by SUFC from its supporters by other than purchase of shares; for the advance purchase of season cards for [a] more than one year life [c] perpetual [in form of some type of foundation debenture purchase as with the Royal Albert Hall]

10 What liabilites are presently subsisting to the owners of Roots Hall by SUFC in respect of [a] rent service charges or other liability.

11 What is to be done concerning these liabilities if the development proceeds.

12 What if any pre-conditions are anticipated for advance purchase of season cards for above 1 year.

13 Will any purchase include all/or any events taking place at the stadium.

14 If not, will season card holders be afforded first refusal on other than football events in "their" seats.

15 What other information can Ron disclose to supporters that will serve to enable a greater understanding of the proposed legacy he anticipates bestowing upon SUFC in return for the club being the vehicle by which his or other development companies can ultimately re-develop the site of Roots Hall.


If any Shrimperzone members have any additional questions, would they contact John and please publish.

Await with interest Rons thoughts and comments.


Southend Utd 1st and last.



Ian Walker

i dont think[ cricko]will have to pass specific questions to ron,as he would know by now dont u fink? old colt oops old irate colt.
 
I think a lot of those are excellent questions. Qu. 1 should be information available at the Land Registry. Qu. 2 is hugely important. Qu. 6 and 7 are a bit more peripheral - do we really care?

But yes, I think we'd all feel reassured for the future of the club if those questions were answered.

Matt

maybe 7. as I would not really want rugby to cut up the pitch! but depends if the financial gains outweigh the pitch repair costs
 
Is there anyway that the questions etc could be posted as another thread as finally we have something to get our teeth into?

Dave,
New thread opened so I will close this one

mcnasty
 
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