Ron V Vic

[WickfordShrimper]

Correction - stadium was sold after Vic left, at a lower value than had previously been given to it. It's not clear how you would value a stadium, though, until you try to do anything else with it.

My summary of things as I see it (and see my very first posts on SZ for more) is Vic came in and saved the club from a much worse fate. He did an incredible job in stabilising the ship and attracted good people such as Webby. He was a true fan. He was the person for winning the war, but not the person to win the peace. He alienated too many people as time went on, but still ran a tight ship despite low attendances. The club's finances were relatively stable. He wanted a move within Southend, but this was opposed by many backward-looking (at the time) fans and a dreadful unhelpful council. Losing patience, he threatened Basildon - I believe it was just a threat diected at the council but he knew the club's future lied away from Roots Hall to go forward - but this backfired badly with the fans. When he had poor health in the last couple of years, finances worsened dramatically - did he take his eye off the ball? We had the worst manager in our history who had no concept of what managing a club like Southend entailed and the club nearly ended up bust.

Cue Ron Martin's companies to come to the rescue. Not a football fan, but interested in the club as a vehicle to make himself some money through the other revenue streams at FF. Has he become a fan now? Stumbled on Tilly by accident and his successes as manager have enabled us to have lucrative results. Despite that, we're losing an eye-watering £2m a year, in big debt, don't own the assets that we once did and are facing a winding up petition. Won't know how history will judge him until after he's gone. Will we survive the month/year? Will the stadium ever be built? Will the stadium provide extra revenues for the club or will we simply have extra rent to pay? We don't know yet.

Top post and true

Shame Vic had to knock down our Magnificent South Stand that once held 20000 plus.... amazing to believe today :-(

 

[Reg Martin]

Won't know how history will judge him until after he's gone. Will we survive the month/year? Will the stadium ever be built? Will the stadium provide extra revenues for the club or will we simply have extra rent to pay? We don't know yet.

Only time we tell. If the answers to your questions all turn out to be 'yes', then Ron will be Southend's best ever chairman (I'm sure this is what you were trying to say:whistling:)

 

[philtalkin]

Ron 2 Vic 5

Only because Mildy was in Ron's team for the penalty shoot out.

 

[blue shrimp]

The thing both have had in common is that they are the only two to have been chairman when we reached the second tier so as someone else pointed out they both could be said to be way ahead of all our other chairmen.

I think your summary is biased towards VJ - not everyone would regard building the south stand as a major triumph nor some of the big money signings. IIRC he was also the chairman who threatened to move the club to Basildon. You fail to mention that attendances have doubled during the RM era (and regard VJ's failure to do so as bad luck!) We also seem to be giving higher priority to youth development under RM.

As a matter of interest does your Dad post on here?

My dad does not use this or any other forum..He has not been to the Hall since Michael Kightly was released and according to my dad MKs release was purely the club being tight and not for footballing reasons,His views on RM would not be printable.He had time for VJ as he believed Vic was trying to achieve his very best for the club and fans.

 

[blue shrimp]

Correction - stadium was sold after Vic left, at a lower value than had previously been given to it. It's not clear how you would value a stadium, though, until you try to do anything else with it.

My summary of things as I see it (and see my very first posts on SZ for more) is Vic came in and saved the club from a much worse fate. He did an incredible job in stabilising the ship and attracted good people such as Webby. He was a true fan. He was the person for winning the war, but not the person to win the peace. He alienated too many people as time went on, but still ran a tight ship despite low attendances. The club's finances were relatively stable. He wanted a move within Southend, but this was opposed by many backward-looking (at the time) fans and a dreadful unhelpful council. Losing patience, he threatened Basildon - I believe it was just a threat directed at the council but he knew the club's future lied away from Roots Hall to go forward - but this backfired badly with the fans. When he had poor health in the last couple of years, finances worsened dramatically - did he take his eye off the ball? We had the worst manager in our history who had no concept of what managing a club like Southend entailed and the club nearly ended up bust.

Cue Ron Martin's companies to come to the rescue. Not a football fan, but interested in the club as a vehicle to make himself some money through the other revenue streams at FF. Has he become a fan now? Stumbled on Tilly by accident and his successes as manager have enabled us to have lucrative results. Despite that, we're losing an eye-watering £2m a year, in big debt, don't own the assets that we once did and are facing a winding up petition. As SBH said, won't know how history will judge him until after he's gone. Will we survive the month/year? Will the stadium ever be built? Will the stadium provide extra revenues for the club or will we simply have extra rent to pay? We don't know yet.

Fantastic post.

 

[Reg Martin]

My dad does not use this or any other forum..He has not been to the Hall since Michael Kightly was released and according to my dad MKs release was purely the club being tight and not for footballing reasons,His views on RM would not be printable.He had time for VJ as he believed Vic was trying to achieve his very best for the club and fans.

I honestly think it's a big shame if your Dad has stopped seeing his team over one player being released. He has missed out on a lot.
I have never met RM (nor for that matter VJ). I know some people are very hostile to RM and I have no idea whether their fears are true or not. But until someone comes up with a better alternative to him I just can't see the point in banging on about him endlessly.

 

[Tampa Blue]

RM - reminds me of Tony Blair - all spin and at present no substance.

Not overly keen on VJ as a man but I do remember his wife helping out in the snack bars during reserve matches.

AND VJ DID NOT ACT LIKE A PRIMA DONA WALKING ROUND THE PITCH AT BIG GAMES!!

 

[blue shrimp]

I honestly think it's a big shame if your Dad has stopped seeing his team over one player being released. He has missed out on a lot.
I have never met RM (nor for that matter VJ). I know some people are very hostile to RM and I have no idea whether their fears are true or not. But until someone comes up with a better alternative to him I just can see the point in banging on about him endlessly.

The Kightly thing was the straw that made my dad turn his back on the club,He refuses to pay any admission money until a certain person is no longer at the club.

 

[philtalkin]

The Kightly thing was the straw that made my dad turn his back on the club,He refuses to pay any admission money until a certain person is no longer at the club.

Try to have your own opinion rather than be prejudiced by those of your father.

My Dad was a racist bigot (as were many people from his era). I would rather be my own man and I have my own views which are based on fact and a little bit of trust, rather than fiction and 'what ifs'.

My view is that Ron is a proud man, and doesn't want to admit that his masterplan is harder to achieve than he initially thought, and is taking longer than he imagined.

However, until he puts his hands up and says 'sorry I have messed up, it isn't going to happen', I will continue to believe that he is working towards building a new ground and some financial stability for the club.

Don't forget, the football world in the 80's and 90's are so much different to what we have now. Players wages and transfer fees in the lower leagues (largely because of the Bosman ruling) are completely different.

Hard to judge if we'd be in a better or worse position if VJ was still in charge. If you want judge the 2 Men purely on their success, or otherwise, in business then Ron would easily win.

 

[TJC]

The Kightly thing was the straw that made my dad turn his back on the club,He refuses to pay any admission money until a certain person is no longer at the club.

Seems a shame to take that attitude and miss out on so much.
I for one believe in RM and feel safe as we can be in his hands. Ron hasn't got a personal fortune to 'play' with us like a hobby. He has to balance the books and make us as self sufficent as we can be.
If he was really Dr Evil, he could call in the rent owed, wind us up and have two pieces of prime building land without the need for a stadium taking up room.
I know the council have earmarked FF for a football stadium for us, but with the club out of existence, they aren't going to keep it for old times sake.
If Ron wanted to maximse profit, he could easily let us go to the wall without the help of the inland revenue.
I guess the truth will be in the pudding - if we survive the winding up order, then I don't think anyone can say Ron is trying to screw us over.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The Kightly thing was the straw that made my dad turn his back on the club,He refuses to pay any admission money until a certain person is no longer at the club.

That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. On that logic I would have given up when Billy Best was allowed to leave the club.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

I really cant believe how Vic is being hailed as a ****ing saint, i had the mispleasure of meeting the man and on each occasion i walked away thinking ******, from the inside knowledge that i had at the time from a Director, Webby leaving was very much Vics doing, every deal that was done he allegedly had a back hander and whether it was true but the story goes he got a lovely nice new kitchen out of the South Stand being built. Thats before you even get to the way he treated the fans.

Now i know Ron is not perfect or has bundles of cash and he would be the first to admit his motive was money when he first got here but why do people have a problem with him engaging the fans whether through blogs or on the pitch. I have never met Ron, However i have had a number of telephone conversations and hang up thinking positive things. The day he starts playing the same games as Vic my opinion will change but until then there is no comparison.

 

[ElstreeBlue]

Seems a shame to take that attitude and miss out on so much.
I for one believe in RM and feel safe as we can be in his hands. Ron hasn't got a personal fortune to 'play' with us like a hobby. He has to balance the books and make us as self sufficent as we can be.
If he was really Dr Evil, he could call in the rent owed, wind us up and have two pieces of prime building land without the need for a stadium taking up room.
I know the council have earmarked FF for a football stadium for us, but with the club out of existence, they aren't going to keep it for old times sake.
If Ron wanted to maximse profit, he could easily let us go to the wall without the help of the inland revenue.
I guess the truth will be in the pudding - if we survive the winding up order, then I don't think anyone can say Ron is trying to screw us over.

Wouldn't be quite that easy to use the Roots Hall site because of planning restrictions over the land. I also wouldn't be so sure that RM could get the Fossetts development unless there is a football ground there, but I stand to be corrected on that. Calling in the rent owed and winding up the club would be great in theory, but not much practical use if there isn't the money left in the club to pay it.

As for balancing the books, I haven't seen much evidence recently of that. I certainly wouldn't list that as one of RM's attributes given the amount of money the club has been losing. Whether the money which has been borrowed to see us through for the time being can eventually lead to the club being on a more stable footing in the future remains to be seen. I'm not at all confident that the club is safe, but of course I hope it is. Let's hope we can get through this month first and then see what happens next.

 

[Firestorm]

VJ got rid of the club to a property developer with the backing of a larger property developer, not knowing at the time how committed the purchasers were going to be the future of the club.

This transfer of the club was solely dependent on the transfer of the ground in exchange for clearance of the debt, so whilst the timing of the sale may have been post Jobson , he was certainly responsible.

I have said this before on here, IMHO VJ would have been lauded at a hero had he stepped aside during our early years in the 2nd teir, if he had the courage to concede that he had reached the limit of what he could do for the club and find someone who could have taken the investment in the club to the next level. but he didn't and it very nearly cost the club their existance.

Agreed he bought in Webb and Fry, but he also saw off Webb twice, and failed to keep the , game for game, most successfull manager we ever had by failing to offer him a contract when he said he would.

To be honest I think the answer rests with the paying punter, and 1st season ever on the 2nd Teir 1991/92 Average RH league attendance 6729

1st season back in the 2nd Tier Average RH league attendance 10,022

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

I really cant believe how Vic is being hailed as a ****ing saint, i had the mispleasure of meeting the man and on each occasion i walked away thinking ******, from the inside knowledge that i had at the time from a Director, Webby leaving was very much Vics doing, every deal that was done he allegedly had a back hander and whether it was true but the story goes he got a lovely nice new kitchen out of the South Stand being built. Thats before you even get to the way he treated the fans.

Now i know Ron is not perfect or has bundles of cash and he would be the first to admit his motive was money when he first got here but why do people have a problem with him engaging the fans whether through blogs or on the pitch. I have never met Ron, However i have had a number of telephone conversations and hang up thinking positive things. The day he starts playing the same games as Vic my opinion will change but until then there is no comparison.

Backing up my argument that RM is better at PR.

 

[Napster]

VJ got rid of the club to a property developer with the backing of a larger property developer, not knowing at the time how committed the purchasers were going to be the future of the club.

This transfer of the club was solely dependent on the transfer of the ground in exchange for clearance of the debt, so whilst the timing of the sale may have been post Jobson , he was certainly responsible.

I have said this before on here, IMHO VJ would have been lauded at a hero had he stepped aside during our early years in the 2nd teir, if he had the courage to concede that he had reached the limit of what he could do for the club and find someone who could have taken the investment in the club to the next level. but he didn't and it very nearly cost the club their existance.

Agreed he bought in Webb and Fry, but he also saw off Webb twice, and failed to keep the , game for game, most successfull manager we ever had by failing to offer him a contract when he said he would.

To be honest I think the answer rests with the paying punter, and 1st season ever on the 2nd Teir 1991/92 Average RH league attendance 6729

1st season back in the 2nd Tier Average RH league attendance 10,022

1991 if I remember rightly we were in the middle of a nasty recession. 3 years ago, we weren't.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree totally with Blue Shrimp.

Ron Martin is totally evil, he took over a club which didn't own its own stadium, was millions of pounds in debt and languishing in the 4th division. If this club fails, it will be totally Ron Martin's fault.

In comparison Vic Jobson is a saint.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

To be honest I think the answer rests with the paying punter, and 1st season ever on the 2nd Teir 1991/92 Average RH league attendance 6729

1st season back in the 2nd Tier Average RH league attendance 10,022

Think attendances can be misleading as on average crowds are up everywhere, equally who knows what our average would have been with a bigger capacity.

Average attendance for 2nd tier in 1994/95 was 10,882, and in 06/07 was 18,222.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

Where is FM13 and some pearls of foresight when you need them??

 

[Kent Shrimper]

Backing up my argument that RM is better at PR.

Or just a nice human being?