Ron V Vic

[The Flying Scotsman]

Or just a nice human being?

True, but being nice doesn't necessarily mean you're better at a job.

Anyway, I would prefer to focus on the future and the hope for a bright future for us than look back nostalgically with rose tinted glasses.

 

[Ricky Otto]

1991 if I remember rightly we were in the middle of a nasty recession. 3 years ago, we weren't.

But we are in a recession now and our league one attendances have been better this season than the 91/92 season which was in the equivelent of the championship.

Average this season in recession in league one 8452

Average 1991/92 in recession in championship 6729

Not sure what your arguement is?

 

[Napster]

But we are in a recession now and our league one attendances have been better this season than the 91/92 season which was in the equivelent of the championship.

Average this season in recession in league one 8452

Average 1991/92 in recession in championship 6729

Not sure what your arguement is?

we weren't in one when we got into the championship. besides which, as TFS pointed out, generally attendances are up anyway.

 

[weststander]

Vic or Ron ???

They both had their positives and theyve both had negatives,

What can we say about Vic, he rescued the club when we were about to go bust (with the help of Robert Maxwell and Ken Bates i believe), so thats a positive, he presided over the good ship Southend United from 1985 to 1999 leading us in the clubs most successful period, 6 years in the 'Championship' another positive, BUT he got through lots of managers during his reign, Bobby Moore, David Webb, Paul Clark, Dick Bate, Paul Clark (again), David Webb (again), Colin Murphy, Barry Fry, Peter Taylor, Steve Thompson, Ronnie Whelan, Alvin Martin and Mick Gooding. Thats 12 managers in 14 years, not one for stability was our Vic. During this time Vic sold most of the old South Bank and fell out with the developpers causing us a large legal bill (one of many litigations against us and i dont think we ever won one), It is well known that by the end of his reign, Vic had even mortgaged the seats in the stadium. Thanks to his mismanagement of the finances the banks 'owned' the ground and everything in it and we were £8million in debt ! Vic's PR was the poorest i think ive ever known, he banned the echo more times than i can remember, he called the fans the hitler youth and also said that if we didnt like what he was doing there were 91 other clubs that we could go and support.
Now we have Ron, a self confessed non football fan in the beginning, he since has been quoted as saying that he has fallen in love with the club and i tend to believe him, he hasnt charged the club its £400k per year rent since Vic sold the club to him and delancy, thats 11 or so years which means he has written off more than £4 million in rent !
Ron has much better PR and has only got rid of, Alan Little, Mick Gooding (again), David Webb (again !!), Rob Newman, Stewart Robson and Steve Wignall. thats 6 in 11 years...... its amazing what a bit of stability does.
Ron got the debt level down to £2million at one point but this has risen and is expected to be around £6million this year. Ron has achieved planning permission for a new stadium which is something that Vic didnt manage.

All in all both had their achievements and failures. BUT i know for definate that i'd rather have Ron in charge any day of the week.

 

[Ricky Otto]

we weren't in one when we got into the championship. besides which, as TFS pointed out, generally attendances are up anyway.

Well in which case my point was that we are in one now and our attendances are better despite being in a lower league. However I agree TFS' post makes all this talk of attendances almost meaningless as 2nd tier attendances have almost doubled in 12yrs!! Now those figures did surprise me!

 

[Bramble'sGoalieGloves]

From my days as a lurker on here I've never really understood the militant anti-Martin posts...fair enough you've got to hate someone at the club but the grass is definately not greener with chairmen at other clubs and I think we're the better for having him (minus the dodgy Donald Trump hairdo)

Everyone quickly forgets that it was him that came out after getting HUGE stick for turning down Stan the Man as manager for boring Tilson...he explained his decision after to the fans openly before a game was played and seems he didn't do too badly.

Knock him all you like but the one thing you can't fault him on is he puts his balls on the line when challenged and explains the decisions he makes more than most chairmen.

My opinion of Vic from what Ive heard and experienced...spend a lot (that you haven't got), you get a lot...that's all he seemed to do for the club. My opinion only though.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think in all fairness as well, that people seem to be asking where the blog has gone, where Ron is, why haven't we heard anything? Well, surely, with what is going on at the Club at the moment, isn't it better for him to be working all hours trying to resolve the situation? I'm sure Blogs are very high on his agenda right now!

 

[Tilson_Blues]

worst post i ever seen jobson was a knob martin is a brill chairman no other chairman wud stick by tilly like him which helps succsess

 

[Firestorm]

I suppose the moral here is , be careful what you wish for, There was a quite nasty Rubins Out campaign and when they left we got Anton Johnson and associates and that nearly took the club down. I dont recall any support for Jobson towards the end (Stans debut was missed by many protesting by staying away) yet people are now saying Martin is worse.

Just look at Charlton, hounded their manager out because the football which was keeping them mid table in the Prem was boring...yep that worked didn't it

 

[canveyshrimper]

I suppose the moral here is , be careful what you wish for, There was a quite nasty Rubins Out campaign and when they left we got Anton Johnson and associates and that nearly took the club down. I dont recall any support for Jobson towards the end (Stans debut was missed by many protesting by staying away) yet people are now saying Martin is worse.

Just look at Charlton, hounded their manager out because the football which was keeping them mid table in the Prem was boring...yep that worked didn't it

Well said mate, I've made the point before about reaping what you sow. I do think that RM has been largely a force for good for Southend United, and as such he has got a whole lot further than any previous chairman over getting the club to a new stadium. He can't carry the blame for a worldwide credit crunch and the worst recession in over 60 years.

I honestly there's many among our support who want Ron to fall flat on his face only to say "I told you so" as our club disappears down the toilet.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

no other chairman wud stick by tilly like him which helps succsess

Hang on, are you telling me that no other Chairman would stick with a manager who avoided relegation to the conference, achieved back to back promotions to the Championship, made the play offs of L1, has made money on the transfer market, raised the profile of the club with victories over Man U, has almost doubled the average attendance in 5 years and is still able to put out a competitive L1 side despite the fact we don't have a great deal of money!

Ruthless business this football malarky!

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

I think it's been an interesting debate on here for a change. I think RM is in general better for the club and has certainly made everyone a bit more "united". However, the case can be firmly closed if he can release his potential and deliver his promises.

 

[Mick]

Correction - stadium was sold after Vic left, at a lower value than had previously been given to it. It's not clear how you would value a stadium, though, until you try to do anything else with it.

My summary of things as I see it (and see my very first posts on SZ for more) is Vic came in and saved the club from a much worse fate. He did an incredible job in stabilising the ship and attracted good people such as Webby. He was a true fan. He was the person for winning the war, but not the person to win the peace. He alienated too many people as time went on, but still ran a tight ship despite low attendances. The club's finances were relatively stable. He wanted a move within Southend, but this was opposed by many backward-looking (at the time) fans and a dreadful unhelpful council. Losing patience, he threatened Basildon - I believe it was just a threat directed at the council but he knew the club's future lied away from Roots Hall to go forward - but this backfired badly with the fans. When he had poor health in the last couple of years, finances worsened dramatically - did he take his eye off the ball? We had the worst manager in our history who had no concept of what managing a club like Southend entailed and the club nearly ended up bust.

Cue Ron Martin's companies to come to the rescue. Not a football fan, but interested in the club as a vehicle to make himself some money through the other revenue streams at FF. Has he become a fan now? Stumbled on Tilly by accident and his successes as manager have enabled us to have lucrative results. Despite that, we're losing an eye-watering £2m a year, in big debt, don't own the assets that we once did and are facing a winding up petition. As SBH said, won't know how history will judge him until after he's gone. Will we survive the month/year? Will the stadium ever be built? Will the stadium provide extra revenues for the club or will we simply have extra rent to pay? We don't know yet.

Vic Jobson was, in my opinion, an obnoxious individual who had long since used up the goodwill he aquired and deserved through saving the club, well before he died.

His penchant for futile and unjustifiable litigation crippled the club's finances (nearly as much as Whelan's wages and bar bill) and his record in the courts was worse than Portsmouth's record in the Premiership this year.

Speak to local businessmen who were bankrupted through Jobson's refusal to pay what he owed. Even his non-football life had some pretty dark chapters.

Not a nice man.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Like Mick I find this rehabilitation of Vic Jobson on here quite mystifying. All his problems stemmed from the fact IMHO that he was an obnoxious individual who could not get on with anyone. He alienated the council (there was a stry that he threw a councullor down some stairs at RH) so that they would not support him in what would have been a difficult planning application for the stadium. Alienated fans by telling them to find another club and to be honest the whole town. Supporting Blues became an embarassment. We weren't friendly old Blues like we were under Rubin we were that bunch of so and sos. People talk about RM and his "good PR" as though this is a fault. He's got permission for the stadium, he does get on with people, crowds are coming back. We have a good successful manager. What more do people want.
When and I say when and not if we get the stadium I would like everyone who's said it is not going to happen or that Ron's a crook to walk up to him and shake him by the hand and say they were wrong. And hell might freeze over too.
Best Chairman in my lifetime and that's a fact.

 

[Napster]

Best Chairman in my lifetime and that's a fact.

With the greatest respect, it's not a fact, it's opinion.

But then, considering the absolute dross we've had as chairmen over the years, it's not a hard title to gain. I think wiggy would be better than some of them.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't care about the personality or approachability of the chairman. Under Vic we were in the second tier for longer, had a decent sized squad and paid £500k for a player. Mr Martin might be a charming fellow with an outrageous head of hair but he's not matched up in any of those categories.

 

[blue shrimp]

Ron IMO has promised to many false dawns.

Banging on and on regarding FF yet he finally gets permission to build the thing YET 450 days later not a sausage!!In fact he is still altering the plans meaning the project is delayed further.

The warchest saga.

We will be signing players..........When?

We have learnt from previous seasons and we will be signing players early doors..Yeah right

The tax adventure...This is the second or maybe the third occassion the club are facing uncertainty due to unpaid taxation.

Tilly is forced to scrape around for players as the current squad could easily face a battle against the drop,Tilson is left carrying the can simply because if results go really wrong the fans will get on Steves back.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

With the greatest respect, it's not a fact, it's opinion.


Napster I don't want to be rude (so will be) but did you do English at school? Remember figures of speech? People today are so literal. :)

 

[McNasty]

Hang on, are you telling me that no other Chairman would stick with a manager who avoided relegation to the conference, achieved back to back promotions to the Championship, made the play offs of L1, has made money on the transfer market, raised the profile of the club with victories over Man U, has almost doubled the average attendance in 5 years and is still able to put out a competitive L1 side despite the fact we don't have a great deal of money!

Ruthless business this football malarky!

I've heard through the grapevine that if SZFC I's don't win their next 5 games you're out matey.

 

[blue shrimp]

Other titbits

Why would Ron try and belittle a person who did not understand club accounts?

Ron soon advised us all of the impending tax situation..Since then silence.

Why would club officials ask the people on this site to identify a certain user?Seems to me the user was only asking relevant questions and certainly never deserved the club backlash.

Why would Ron refuse to comment regarding the Prospects situation even though Prospects openly stated they have tried to strike a deal with the club on several occasions without any success.

So many questions.