Slipperduke's Slippery Euro08 Coverage

[Slipperduke]

Thats ok Slipper, im a qualified ref so i spotted it straight away, was still a difficult decision to call though.

It's a really strange one, isn't it? I can't remember ever having seen a decision that has been so widely misinterpreted. Even Ruud didn't seem to think it was kosher.

Is it a recent rule change, or has it always been like that?

 

[BTS]

Its been like it since i have been reffing, so at least 6 years. The reason it was bought in was to stop defenders deliberately making an attacker offside. what the defender would attempt to do was deliberately step off the pitch behind the goal, meaning the attacker would have been offside

 

[Irish_Shrimper]

By Christ, just when you think you're getting to finally know the ins and outs of the offside rule in all its complexity - a new thing pops up!! Well spotted Brad - I for one was screaming at the TV as to why it wasn't ruled out, fair play to the lino on a fantastic decision then i must say!

 

[palexander]

Van Nistelrooy was NOT offside, watch it again, Panucci slides off the pitch after colliding with Buffon, Panucci was stil ACTIVE. Meaning he was playing Van Nistelrooy onside.

Wait, Pannucci is still considered 'active' and hence able to play Ruud ONSIDE, despite being off the field of play?

I bow to your knowledge, but I've never heard that in 20+ years of watching football. As far as I was concerned, if you are off the pitch then you are 'out of play' and shouldnt be able to return until the ref allows it.

Weird one thats for sure!!!! (unless I've got your gist wrong!?)

 

[C C Csiders]

I must have been watching a different game last night as I thought Italy were by far the better side.

 

[palexander]

I must have been watching a different game last night as I thought Italy were by far the better side.

Think you were then!

Italy had flashes of composure, but were generally clueless in the final third.

Holland were just awesome, dont know how anyone could deny it.

 

[C C Csiders]

Think you were then!

Italy had flashes of composure, but were generally clueless in the final third.

Holland were just awesome, dont know how anyone could deny it.

They weren't masturbatory awesome though were they? You'd think they were the amount of semen splutched up by Tildesley, Pleat et al last night.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Van Nistelrooy was NOT offside, watch it again, Panucci slides off the pitch after colliding with Buffon, Panucci was stil ACTIVE. Meaning he was playing Van Nistelrooy onside.

That can't be right! Please tell me thats not right!

 

[Bluesmanager]

There's a little known rule that says something about a player still being active if he's unlawfully left the field of play (i.e. not told the ref he was going off).

 

[BrettieAngell]

There's a little known rule that says something about a player still being active if he's unlawfully left the field of play (i.e. not told the ref he was going off).

Ok I've seen that, still don't think thats particularly fair when the guy has been laid out by his keeper though!

 

[palexander]

Yea, thats incredibly harsh (and reasonably well explained by Lineker and co).

But a very liberal interpretation of the rule and I'd be amazed, considering its so rare I doubt its happened very often, that the linesman had the presence of mind to call that.

I still say it was a total mistake from the lino, but technically the goal was right to stand in the letter of the law.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Yea, thats incredibly harsh (and reasonably well explained by Lineker and co).

But a very liberal interpretation of the rule and I'd be amazed, considering its so rare I doubt its happened very often, that the linesman had the presence of mind to call that.

I still say it was a total mistake from the lino, but technically the goal was right to stand in the letter of the law.

Yeah Harry Redknapp just said the same thing, there was so much going on there was no way he could have seen pannuci, therefore he cocked it up!

 

[Slipperduke]

To say that Greece won the 2004 European Championships through luck is simply unfair. To say that deploying a defensive brick wall is an easy option is simply wrong. To play the way that Greece do, and to win, requires immense discipline, mental strength and concentration. While it's definitely not an art form, it is certainly a science. The only problem is that when you lapse, even for a moment, when that robotic focus slips, you ship a goal. And when you ship a goal playing the way that Greece do, there's no way back. When Zlatan Ibrahimovic burst the back of the net after 67 minutes, this game was over. When Martin Hansson bundled over the line five minutes later, it seemed like bullying.

Otto Rehhagel took anti-football to its inglorious zenith four years ago, but as the dust settles around this demoralising, disastrous opening defeat, he may wish that he had considered some kind of 'plan B'. Greece have been found out and, unless they regroup and reorganise in the next four days, they'll be knocked out as well. Like going into meetings unprepared and using corny chat-up lines on girls in nightclubs, anti-football is only clever when it works.

Greece could not have played more defensively had they dug trenches in front of the penalty area and set-up machine-gun turrets in the goal. Satirios Kyrgiakos and Traianos Dellas were immense at the back and, to coin an old Barry Fry phrase, they would have headed away a jumbo jet had it entered their airspace. Every time they gained possession, they stopped dead in their tracks and passed the ball gently to one another. They had no intention of crossing the halfway line. There be dragons there.

The Swedish fans, who outnumbered their opposition in great numbers, made no secret of their feelings towards Rehhagel's tactics. They booed and whistled every time the Greeks tried to play keepball, bursting into sarcastic cheers when they eventually punted an aimless longball into the channels. This was not a game for the neutrals. This was not a game for anyone.

Sweden were functional, no more than that. They knew that there was little they could do to break down the white wall, but it didn't stop them trying. They pumped up long balls, they pinged it about, they attacked from the flanks, they pushed through the centre. Nothing worked. In the end it took the delicate touch of a veteran to feed the boot of a mercurial star. Zlatan Ibrahimovic hadn't scored for Sweden in two and a half years, but he could wait another five to score one this satisfying. Larsson's days of hat-tricks and wondergoals may be passing him by, but he retains a wonderful reading of the game and his touch to his strike-partner was as delicate and precise as Hansson's second goal was messy and scrappy.

You can fall on either side of a very thin fence when discussing the Greek football team. Is it admirable to play to your strengths if your strengths are that you can completely spoil a match for everybody? Is it bold or stupid to insist that an inferior team attempts to play expansive football? Rehhagel is a realist and it was that pragmatism that led him to his finest hour on a hot Iberian night in 2004. Unfortunately, it is that same cautious spirit that has doomed him in 2008.

 

[Slipperduke]

Van Nistelrooy was NOT offside, watch it again, Panucci slides off the pitch after colliding with Buffon, Panucci was stil ACTIVE. Meaning he was playing Van Nistelrooy onside.

I was intruiged, so I looked up the rules and I think there may still be a big question mark hanging over this.

"If a defending player steps behind his own goalline IN ORDER TO PLACE AN OPPONENT OFFSIDE, the referee shall allow play to continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee's permission."

So, there's a few problems now.

1, Panucci certainly didn't intend to place anyone in an offside position, he got shoved there by his keeper.

2, Why wasn't he booked? If the ref thinks that he has left the field in order to place an opponent offside, then he should be booked.

I reckon they've dropped a bollock.

 

[sufcintheprem]

I was intruiged, so I looked up the rules and I think there may still be a big question mark hanging over this.

"If a defending player steps behind his own goalline IN ORDER TO PLACE AN OPPONENT OFFSIDE, the referee shall allow play to continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee's permission."

So, there's a few problems now.

1, Panucci certainly didn't intend to place anyone in an offside position, he got shoved there by his keeper.

2, Why wasn't he booked? If the ref thinks that he has left the field in order to place an opponent offside, then he should be booked.

I reckon they've dropped a bollock.

Hang on, this must surely be madness. There has to be a distinction between players leaving the pitch and players crossing over the white line which FIFA surely should have written in when being so precise about when players can leave and enter the field.

If a player is stood on the post but gets it slightly wrong and stands behind the goal line, surely he is still active in the game and can still come back on without the referees permission. If a winger has to go round a full back by going off the pitch , surely he is entitled to step back on to collect the ball.

On a separate note, if a player is tackled but not fouled and has been lying on the floor a few seconds, play shouldn't stop and the player shouldn't be considered injured until he signals it or the referee decides he can't signal that and that the game should be stopped.

Panucci was bundled off the pitch by his own keeper, was clearly not hurt judging by some wholehearted sprints later in the game and in my eyes has to be considered as active by any definition of offside.

Given how he went down arms flailing, I would say that he may well have caught the attention of the linesman as I would expect to have seen it with my untrained eyes. Has the linesman spoke of the matter yet?

 

[Slipperduke]

It's a question of intent though, isn't it? Did Panucci seek to gain an advantage by being hurled through the air like a bag of spuds? I can't see that he did.

I suppose the linesman could argue that by not getting straight up and running back onto the pitch, he was dawdling in order to gain advantage, but I think I'd need a bit of a sit down if I'd been taken out in mid-air by Buffon.

This will be on Question of Sport in 20 years time. As will Sue Barker.

 

[Slipperduke]

Rarely has a host nation looked as pleased with an opening day defeat as Austria were at the weekend. Beaten by an early Croatian penalty, Josef Hickersberger's team were applauded off the pitch by their fans, giddy on raw optimism. Austria, you see, were supposed to be the whipping boys of the tournament, whose only purpose was to drive the goals-per-game average up. Their valiant display however, has given their supporters hope that something magical might be about to happen.

Everyone is weighing in to help, though some of the incentives are more constructive than others. One Austrian brewery has offered a lifetime's supply of beer to the first player to score in the tournament.

"Maybe this is the kind of motivation that will give them the last kick our team needs to be successful," said Ottakringer Brauerei chief executive Sigi Menz. Maybe an English brewery should tried something like this last year. It certainly sounds like their kind of motivation.

Austria were abysmal in their first 30 minutes against Croatia, but when Emanuel 'mad dog' Pogatetz was inexplicably allowed to remain on the field despite his assault on Ivica Olic, they sensed that they might be able to haul themselves back into contention. A raft of second-half substitutions gave them a chance, and it will be interesting to see if 38 year old Ivica Vastic gets another outing. The veteran midfielder was a touch of much needed class. After taking a frightful pounding in the early stages, the hosts recovered to dominate Croatia in the second half. Their manager, the rock star Slaven Bilic, admitted later that he couldn't get his team to smile in the dressing room. Everyone knew just how close they'd come to inexcusable disaster.

Austria will need to play that well again if they're to get past an obstinate Polish side who certainly weren't outclassed by Germany in their own first game. Leo Beenhakker's team played well, but they were undone by the German's devastatingly effective strike-force. Mind you, they didn't help themselves by playing a very high line of defenders and continually trying to catch their opponents in an offside trap. Mario Gomez and Miroslav Klose are far too clever for that and they broke through on several occasions.

Poland will miss the guile and intelligence of Maciej Zurawski, the former Celtic hero, who has picked up a thigh injury, but they do still have the not-very-Polish winger Roger Guerreiro to create chances. He made the right flank his own in the second half and caused some serious concerns for the German defence. Guerreiro isn't the only naturalised Brazilian in this tournament and, as entertaining as he is to watch, it does feel a bit like cheating to see him out there for Poland. Perhaps when UEFA have finished battering the English FA for having too much money, or being too good in the Champions League or for looking at their pint, they could address this problem instead. This should be the European Championships, not the European-and-all-the-Brazilians-who-weren't-quite-good-enough-for-Dunga Championships.

Regardless of nationality, this game could be a bit of a scorcher. Only a win will do for both teams and, when the fixtures were announced, they probably both put this one down as their must-win match. Poland have the better players and the more creative outlets, but Austria have the support, the home advantage, the heart and, of course, there's all of that beer to think about.

 

[sufcintheprem]

It's a question of intent though, isn't it? Did Panucci seek to gain an advantage by being hurled through the air like a bag of spuds? I can't see that he did.

I suppose the linesman could argue that by not getting straight up and running back onto the pitch, he was dawdling in order to gain advantage, but I think I'd need a bit of a sit down if I'd been taken out in mid-air by Buffon.

This will be on Question of Sport in 20 years time. As will Sue Barker.

I haven't looked through the laws of the game but my interpretation of it would be that Panucci hadn't actually left the field of play.

I think a better example of how I look upon it could be made using Portsmouth's game against Man Utd at Old Trafford. Man Utd, chasing the game, broke quickly and after good work from James, Tevez had only Glen Johnson on the line to beat. In the event, Johnson headed away.

However, say that the ball was to one side and Johnson had to dive to head it out straight back at Tevez but in the process, diving behind the goal line. James then comes across to block and Tevez squares it to Rooney, who is in front of James and in front of Tevez, who taps it in.

By my reading, Johnson is still an active player on the pitch even if he is outside the boundary of it and Rooney has been played onside by James and Johnson. If we assume that players off the pitch are inactive then Rooney is offside in spite of no effort from Johnson to leave the pitch.

Additionally, if Johnson recovers his position and blocks Rooney, should the referee book him for entering the field of play without permission and give an indirect free-kick?

Fair enough if the rules say Rooney is offside but I find it crazy.

 

[Slipperduke]

Cristiano Ronaldo, still at the centre of a ferocious fight over his future, blasted Portugal into the quarter-finals of the European Championships last night, slotting home his 21st international goal just when the plucky Czech Republic were beginning to threaten an upset. Portugal may have been the better side throughout this combative encounter, but being the worst team on the pitch didn't stop Karel Bruckner's men from beating Switzerland at the weekend. A late third goal from Ricardo Quaresma secured the result, but Portugal looked vulnerable on set-pieces and were generous with possession. Nevertheless, they survived a series of late scares to pick up the three points.

After their impressive opening day victory over Turkey, Luiz Felipe Scolari wasn't about to make any changes, but Karel Bruckner, the Czech Republic's 68 year old coach, made two alterations to his starting line-up, the most notable being the inclusion of Milan Baros at the expense of towering target-man Jan Koller. Baros is certainly quicker than his more mature compatriot, but then so are most snails. Baros' main contribution was to lift the Czech supporters' hearts with his trademark jinking runs and then break them again by giving the ball away needlessly. His late miss, when he defiantly planted a clear header about five meters outside the far post, was typical of his performance. Thankfully for Bruckner, he could at least rely upon the FC Copenhagen winger Libor Sionko, who caught the eye against Switzerland, but really impressed here. The 31 year old gave Paolo Ferriera a roasting down the right-flank. It was his brave, stooping header that brought the Czech's equaliser and he very nearly levelled the scores again at the end.

Ronaldo was supposed to be the winger that we all talked about but, and it seems strange to say this about a man who scored one and made one, but by his high standards this was a relatively muted performance. Was it simply that he was tightly marked or under-par, or is the pressure beginning to get to him? It has been reported that he is no longer answering Sir Alex Ferguson's calls and if that is the case, I can't begin to imagine how terrifying the messages on his answerphone are. It would certainly be enough to meet me off my game.

Sadly, it has become apparent that Ronaldo has allowed some of the more unsavoury aspects to creep back into his game and it doesn't make for pleasant viewing. He reacted to one innocuous finger on the chin by howling as if he had acid thrown in his face and throwing himself to the floor to play dead until the referee noticed him. We had names for people like that at school. In the second half he ruined a promising Portuguese attack by dropping to the turf after a Czech midfielder looked at him in a funny way. Manchester United fans have a tendency to ignore this side of his character but, given the way he has apparently tried to engineer a move to The Bernabeu, I suspect that they will soon start to dislike him as much as their rivals do.

Regardless of his off-the-field distractions, he remains one of the finest players in the world, even if, like today, his only contributions to the cause are sporadic. The Czech Republic are just another in a long line of disappointed teams who have realised that you cannot take your eye off him, even for a second and that's precisely why a certain football club in Madrid are going to such extraordinary lengths to ensnare him.

 

[Slipperduke]

For all of their hopes and dreams of glory, host nation Switzerland’s European Championships lasted just 101 hours. Their journey began on Saturday with an unfortunate defeat to a poor Czech Republic side and it ended in the mud last night with more bad luck and a decisive injury-time goal. Arda Turan lashed home Turkey’s winner in stoppage time and with that Kobi Kuhn, the outgoing Swiss coach, saw his hopes of a happy ending to his managerial career fade away into the night.

The last time Turkey played Switzerland it ended with the biggest footballing fight since Lee Bowyer inquired as to whether or not Kieron Dyer might like to try passing the ball once in a while. Punches and kicks were exchanged in a violent melee that hospitalised Swiss defender Stephane Grichting with kidney damage. Three years on and several fines and suspensions later, UEFA officials had looked at this fixture in fear, nervous about possible reprisals. All they would have wanted was a nice, quiet, uneventful game of football. Sadly, they forgot to tell whoever is in charge of the weather. After five minutes of this edgy, grudge match, the heavens opened and the Swiss town of Basle began to submerge under a relentless deluge.

After half an hour the flanks of the pitch were ankle-deep puddles and players were sliding around like renegade penguins. I have to be honest, it was the funniest half of football I’ve ever seen. Tackles were flying in from both sets of players, as if they believed the conditions would excuse them for the odd vengeful assault here and there. Turkey simply couldn’t adjust to it as well as their opponents who started simply punting the ball over the backline for nippy teenager Eren Derdiyok to capitalise on. The opening goal was extraordinary. Derdiyok darted onto a Philippe Senderos long-ball which bounced in a puddle and confused the Turkish goalkeeper Demirel Volkan. Derdiyok sidestepped his sliding approach and Volkan span off into the distance like Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. The young Swiss striker calmly laid the ball across the edge of the six yard box where it promptly stopped in a puddle. Time seemed to stand still for a moment until Hakin Yakin, the part-Turkish Swiss playmaker woke up and smashed it through the water into the goal. Two minutes later, he had a copycat chance and he missed it. How he must rue that error now.

Turkey might not have been able to play in puddles, but when the clouds cleared and the pitch dried out, they certainly made up for lost time. Fatih Terim made two changes at the break and finally they were able to play their quick, passing football without the ball sinking out of sight. They are a nasty side, intent on showcasing all the darkest elements of what we might diplomatically describe as ’gamesmanship’, but there is no shortage of quality in their ranks. Semih Senturk headed home a delightful Nihat Kahveci cross just before the hour and then, with time running out, Turan bobbed and weaved before firing home the spectacular coup d’grace that sparked jubilant scenes of celebration.

Turkey now face the Czech Republic on Sunday night in a fascinating, winner-takes-all clash. With both teams locked on identical goal difference, a draw in Geneva will result in a penalty shoot-out to determine the qualifiers. After this epic victory, it may not be required. Turkey have the form and, most significantly, they now have the momentum. Terim’s team could yet be the surprise package of the Championships. Poor old Switzerland can only sit back and watch. A final meaningless fixture against impressive Portugal is all that awaits them because, just four days after becoming the first team to kick off at Euro08, they are now the first to be eliminated as well.