• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-4 Harrogate town

Ok, we were awful, mo getting round that but I have decided to try and look at it differently

Despite losing 4-0 Oxley didn’t actually have a lot to do. It’s not like they had loads of decent attempts on goal.

On another day Oxley saves the second goal.
Going in a 1-0 down and not 2-0 down would have made a big difference in the manager trying to give them confidence

The third goal the ref stops play before the goal As he believes it’s a head injury.

The fourth goal should never have happened, will never happen again (please).

Only being one nil down the players would have had far more confidence following the half time team talk and it might have been very different.
Don’t get me wrong we would probably still have lost, but we might have had some positives to talk about.

No one got injured so we are a little fitter.
Molesley would have learnt a lot from that.

lastly we can’t play that badly again- can we?
 
Alan McCormack and Anthony Wordsworth both still without a club......just saying, like, because midfield for me was the area we were most lacking in (goal keeper apart!).

Gard and Hutch didn't work together, Hutch was playing too deep. The midfield needed to be able to stop opposition advancing and to link together from our defence to the starved forwards, and it simply didn't.

I thought Nathan Ralph showed some flashes of a positive performance after his injury, and am confident he'll improve with more game time.

Jordan Green reminded me a lot of Jermaine McGlashan, a lot of running and showed promise but ran into trouble.

Goodship was trying to be Simon Cox. He's not.

Kelman looked bored.

I can't even bring myself to mention Oxley, most embarrassing captain's performance since he was last captain.

Where Harrogate dominated us it was because the team knew each other so very well. They played as a unit rather than a bunch of strangers, until our players can anticipate and read the game better, we will continue to churn out poor results.

At half time I remember asking myself, what more does Michael Klass have to do to get a game? I accept that he isn't everybody's cup of tea but for me he is a much better option than the two that played together. At least he is someone who can and will get around the pitch and as you said, link the defense and attack.
 
Alan McCormack and Anthony Wordsworth both still without a club......just saying, like, because midfield for me was the area we were most lacking in (goal keeper apart!).

Gard and Hutch didn't work together, Hutch was playing too deep. The midfield needed to be able to stop opposition advancing and to link together from our defence to the starved forwards, and it simply didn't.

I thought Nathan Ralph showed some flashes of a positive performance after his injury, and am confident he'll improve with more game time.

Jordan Green reminded me a lot of Jermaine McGlashan, a lot of running and showed promise but ran into trouble.

Goodship was trying to be Simon Cox. He's not.

Kelman looked bored.

I can't even bring myself to mention Oxley, most embarrassing captain's performance since he was last captain.

Where Harrogate dominated us it was because the team knew each other so very well. They played as a unit rather than a bunch of strangers, until our players can anticipate and read the game better, we will continue to churn out poor results.

Nails on heads.

Good post OBL
 
Exactly what i was thinking......About this post......Where are those moderators when you really need them

And it's gone, it is sometimes difficult for the Mods to spot every post where things are just wrong, especially when it becomes so busy on here and they do have lives outside the Zone.
 
Was reading the comments on Facebook and noticed someone mention that of course our last league match before yesterday was a well deserved 3-1 win against Bristol rovers with plenty of youngsters playing. It does show they are probably more capable than we are thinking. Hope yesterday was just one of those days!!
 
At half time I remember asking myself, what more does Michael Klass have to do to get a game? I accept that he isn't everybody's cup of tea but for me he is a much better option than the two that played together. At least he is someone who can and will get around the pitch and as you said, link the defense and attack.

Yes, I'd forgotten about him, definitely worth a try.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dvg
In no way is this post trying to justify what happened yesterday. However one factor that needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that Harrogate would have been training in preparation for their playoff matches. This would have resulted in their fitness levels being far superior to ours. That preparation together with a pre-season which would have dove tailed this was clearly obvious from the 2 teams performances of yesterday and should not be ignored.

This however does not make for any excuses as to how some of our players performed. Fitness levels are one thing. Inept performances are another. I witnessed either Gard or Phillips having a go at Hutchinson during one passage of acting play from Harrogate. Yesterday should be a wake up call for many of those youngsters who want a career in the professional game. The Harrogate team to a man demonstrated that if you want to believe that your once unknown team want to become known it is possible if you put in performances like that.

I don't believe that this will be a one off performance from them this season. I'm afraid that unless our youngsters realize where they find themselves in this will also not be a one off performance.

UTB!
 
Harrogate is probably the worst opening day fixture we could possibly have hoped for.

Im not the only one that felt this when the fixtures were announced, but I was definitely in the minority.

Harrogate and the game was just about everything I thought it would be and dreaded and it was exactly the reason playing one of the promoted teams on the opening day of the season is always the worst possible time to play them.

In this instance it is even worse due to them preparing for and playing the playoffs so close to the start of the season.

Add to that our lack of preparation, late return to pre season, late appointment of a new manager, lack of challenging pre season games and threadbare squad, it was an absolute accident waiting to happen of the highest order.

Harrogate, buoyed by a play off win, come flying into the football league on a wave of enthusiasm and driven by an overdose of adrenalin, there was only one outcome.

We can blame the referee, we can dig out young players, we can completely contradict our own enthusiasm of just 7 days ago or we can be realistic and analyse the situation a bit more objectively?

No one can paper over the cracks and suggest all is well and it’ll be fine swinging from one extreme to the other based on two 90 mins of football is ridiculous.

Harrogate pressed us as high as is physically possible with more energy and organisation than any pre season game could possibly prepare you for. It was relentless and it was frightening how well prepared they were.

Id hope the players learned from it but I’d also hope that the management did too, because being brutally honest both players and staff looked as out of their depth as each other.....mainly through inexperience and naivety.

If a team comes at you with a press that intense and that aggressive you have to adapt quickly and do one of two things.

You either squeeze up, get players further up the pitch aim at areas and fire the ball 80 yards up the pitch until the opposition sit deeper to deal with it. But to do this you need players who can win and / or compete for the first ball AND then win and compete for the second ball.

If you choose to not do that the other option is to be brave (and good!) and continually try and break the press with passes that break lines and leave them out of position and outnumbered further up the pitch.

This is so hard. You have to work at it, you have to be patient and you have to be prepared to be caught out sometimes.

However if you can do it, the opposition will be unable to maintain the levels of fitness required to keep doing it, tire and eventually the chain breaks, someone stops pressing and you have them beat.

We lost faith in it and weren’t good enough at it after 20 mins. Until then we’d had some success, however too many players played a pass back once we’d almost beaten the press and allowed them another crack at it and too many players started to go missing and not want the ball.

Game over.

OBL is 100% correct. Hutchinson was too deep. He was often 20 yards behind Gard. He tried to be the one being brave on the ball but all he ended up doing was being given it in bad areas and was swamped by Harrogate players, had no one to give it too and ended up being caught on it.

The blame lies with everyone. The movement was poor. The passing was too slow. The options for the man on the ball were non existent and most importantly we didn’t learn and / or weren’t told from the bench to start spinning the ball in behind them and force our two forwards to start pulling their fingers out and start chasing some lost causes and fight to win us some free kicks, throw ins or some possession further up the pitch.

I’m not going to get into who did and who didn’t do well or who is and who isnt good enough.

There players who are good enough but who played poorly. There are also players who aren’t good enough who made it harder for those that are. We will all have differing opinions on that, which is fine and what makes football interesting. But we have to try and avoid abuse, personal or otherwise.

The test is not about the result of the first game, the test is how the players and management learn from it and how quickly. It’s how they adapt their game or their tactics before and during games. It’s how the players are allowed to grow and develop from that.

As I said, Harrogate was the worst possible game to kick off any season let alone this one.

Let’s not jump the gun. Last season Norwich beat Man City!
 
Im not the only one that felt this when the fixtures were announced, but I was definitely in the minority.

Harrogate and the game was just about everything I thought it would be and dreaded and it was exactly the reason playing one of the promoted teams on the opening day of the season is always the worst possible time to play them.

In this instance it is even worse due to them preparing for and playing the playoffs so close to the start of the season.

Add to that our lack of preparation, late return to pre season, late appointment of a new manager, lack of challenging pre season games and threadbare squad, it was an absolute accident waiting to happen of the highest order.

Harrogate, buoyed by a play off win, come flying into the football league on a wave of enthusiasm and driven by an overdose of adrenalin, there was only one outcome.

We can blame the referee, we can dig out young players, we can completely contradict our own enthusiasm of just 7 days ago or we can be realistic and analyse the situation a bit more objectively?

No one can paper over the cracks and suggest all is well and it’ll be fine swinging from one extreme to the other based on two 90 mins of football is ridiculous.

Harrogate pressed us as high as is physically possible with more energy and organisation than any pre season game could possibly prepare you for. It was relentless and it was frightening how well prepared they were.

Id hope the players learned from it but I’d also hope that the management did too, because being brutally honest both players and staff looked as out of their depth as each other.....mainly through inexperience and naivety.

If a team comes at you with a press that intense and that aggressive you have to adapt quickly and do one of two things.

You either squeeze up, get players further up the pitch aim at areas and fire the ball 80 yards up the pitch until the opposition sit deeper to deal with it. But to do this you need players who can win and / or compete for the first ball AND then win and compete for the second ball.

If you choose to not do that the other option is to be brave (and good!) and continually try and break the press with passes that break lines and leave them out of position and outnumbered further up the pitch.

This is so hard. You have to work at it, you have to be patient and you have to be prepared to be caught out sometimes.

However if you can do it, the opposition will be unable to maintain the levels of fitness required to keep doing it, tire and eventually the chain breaks, someone stops pressing and you have them beat.

We lost faith in it and weren’t good enough at it after 20 mins. Until then we’d had some success, however too many players played a pass back once we’d almost beaten the press and allowed them another crack at it and too many players started to go missing and not want the ball.

Game over.

OBL is 100% correct. Hutchinson was too deep. He was often 20 yards behind Gard. He tried to be the one being brave on the ball but all he ended up doing was being given it in bad areas and was swamped by Harrogate players, had no one to give it too and ended up being caught on it.

The blame lies with everyone. The movement was poor. The passing was too slow. The options for the man on the ball were non existent and most importantly we didn’t learn and / or weren’t told from the bench to start spinning the ball in behind them and force our two forwards to start pulling their fingers out and start chasing some lost causes and fight to win us some free kicks, throw ins or some possession further up the pitch.

I’m not going to get into who did and who didn’t do well or who is and who isnt good enough.

There players who are good enough but who played poorly. There are also players who aren’t good enough who made it harder for those that are. We will all have differing opinions on that, which is fine and what makes football interesting. But we have to try and avoid abuse, personal or otherwise.

The test is not about the result of the first game, the test is how the players and management learn from it and how quickly. It’s how they adapt their game or their tactics before and during games. It’s how the players are allowed to grow and develop from that.

As I said, Harrogate was the worst possible game to kick off any season let alone this one.

Let’s not jump the gun. Last season Norwich beat Man City!

Brilliant post which nails exactly how Harrogate sussed us out, and exactly what we needed to do to overcome it. I think the first of your options to overcome it we could probably do with one or two additions but it takes a while to coach it into the players and the time he's had with them so far isn't enough. We probably couldn't do the second option without a target man to hold the ball up front as it will just keep coming straight back.

I like the way we're trying to play. It's playing from the back but if we get it right as I feel we did against Gills for the most part, it's way more entertaining to watch than previous managers' attempts at it.

The lack of a 'Plan B' has been a gripe of many on here for years. Now is the time to really put one in place as I doubt Harrogate will be the only team to do that to us this season. We need options quickly - some to fit into MM's desired style of play but also some who can fit into a Plan B, whether that be players to run into long balls into the channels or a lump to hit it long to should we need to.
 
I did think we looked better when Harry Phillips came on for Lewis Gard. Please don't get me wrong, I like all of Gard, Hutch and Phillips but just didn't think they looked great as a pair.
 
Aside from the limited skill and technical nous we had, I thought
that we showed no physical presence. We allowed Harrogate to bully us, in fact they committed far more fouls than we did (18 against 5) because as soon as we had the ball they were all over us like a rash. Conversely there were numerous occasions where we let them spray the ball around as if they were Manchester City.
I am not condoning fouling, but the stats reflected how little time they let us have on the ball, and in fact we ended up with 2 bookings to their 1.
Surely the lacking of pressing is something Molesley should be able to rectify straight away.
That might at least make games more competitive.
 
I did think we looked better when Harry Phillips came on for Lewis Gard. Please don't get me wrong, I like all of Gard, Hutch and Phillips but just didn't think they looked great as a pair.
I think Hutch is the most talented of the three but is not one of a CM pairing. He needs to be in a three. When Gard and Phillips develop they could work together but it's way too soon for them right now. I can see Gard making it eventually. He would have been one like Woodyard who we would have let go in previous years and would have benefited from regular non-league football.
 
At half time I remember asking myself, what more does Michael Klass have to do to get a game? I accept that he isn't everybody's cup of tea but for me he is a much better option than the two that played together. At least he is someone who can and will get around the pitch and as you said, link the defense and attack.

if we play Klass or give him a squad number it takes up a spot in the squad. Whilst we’re operating under an embargo we can only have 25. So Molesley is obviously trying to keep as many spots open as he can. Humphrys leaving frees one up but that looks like it will be filled imminently
 
if we play Klass or give him a squad number it takes up a spot in the squad. Whilst we’re operating under an embargo we can only have 25. So Molesley is obviously trying to keep as many spots open as he can. Humphrys leaving frees one up but that looks like it will be filled imminently

I wasn’t aware that’s how the ruling works, it makes sense though as to why Michael seems to have been frozen out though at the moment. Is it a numbers game though? If it is I don’t see how giving Gard/Phillips a squad place and number over Klass makes any sense.

Did he join anyone?

Not according to the interweb he hasn’t.
 
if we play Klass or give him a squad number it takes up a spot in the squad. Whilst we’re operating under an embargo we can only have 25. So Molesley is obviously trying to keep as many spots open as he can. Humphrys leaving frees one up but that looks like it will be filled imminently

I thought it was 23 we could have?
 
Back
Top