Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-1 Altrincham

[Chrisb]

Lose a couple of games, people doubting Maher.

Win a couple of games, people doubting Cav.

What is wrong with you lot! This is the best management team and squad of players we have had in some years. Stop doubting and start supporting.

Absolutely agree, the management team and players are human beings, they will not always get everything right - watching games at RH is the best it has been for many seasons, let's enjoy it while this special group remain together.

 

[Blue Streak]

I have not been very impressed by Miley since his return.

I would love to see the stats from when he was out injured compared to after his return.

I realise we have won 3 on the trot but how much of that was despite him playing.

I've put together some stats. But it neither proves nor disproves that we benefit from Cav in the side or out of it. From recollection his first game missed was away at Yeovil in the cup. His return was as a sub versus Halifax on 6 Jan. During that time we played 13 games. We scored 20 and conceded 15. We won 38% of our games (5). We drew 3 and lost 5. Our goals per game average was 1.54 and goals conceded was 1.15. When Cav returned we only managed 1.12 goals per game but conceded an average of 1 per game. That sort of tells me that it has little effect as to whether he's playing or not. The ratios aren't that dissimilar. What it does suggest is that we score more goals with him absent but conceded slightly fewer when he plays. This of course is all subjective as there are so many other factors that determine the outcome of a game other than the performance of one player. (Eg the opposition, how on their game the rest of the team are). For example Kalvin Phillips can tell his grandchildren how many trophies and medals he won. But that doesn't reflect the reality. Its easy to use statstics for your own agenda. Cav Lovers will cite that we concede less goals, Cav critics will cite we score fewer goals, perhaps due to a slowed urgency to get the ball forwards. I personally sit on the fence with Cav. I think he's quite "ordinary". I think he should be benched and made to fight for his place like any other player. The club, the fans, and Cav will only benefit from a more hungry player who lately seems to have become somewhat complacent during periods of the game. Finally, It's human nature for critics to use the word "overrated" when others unnecessarily big up players that don't statistically "make much difference" or deserve it. (Kalvin Phillips is an example once again). The stats don't lie. But opinions are healthy.

 

[shrimperjon]

I've put together some stats. But it neither proves nor disproves that we benefit from Cav in the side or out of it. From recollection his first game missed was away at Yeovil in the cup. His return was as a sub versus Halifax on 6 Jan. During that time we played 13 games. We scored 20 and conceded 15. We won 38% of our games (5). We drew 3 and lost 5. Our goals per game average was 1.54 and goals conceded was 1.15. When Cav returned we only managed 1.12 goals per game but conceded an average of 1 per game. That sort of tells me that it has little effect as to whether he's playing or not. The ratios aren't that dissimilar. What it does suggest is that we score more goals with him absent but conceded slightly fewer when he plays. This of course is all subjective as there are so many other factors that determine the outcome of a game other than the performance of one player. (Eg the opposition, how on their game the rest of the team are). For example Kalvin Phillips can tell his grandchildren how many trophies and medals he won. But that doesn't reflect the reality. Its easy to use statstics for your own agenda. Cav Lovers will cite that we concede less goals, Cav critics will cite we score fewer goals, perhaps due to a slowed urgency to get the ball forwards. I personally sit on the fence with Cav. I think he's quite "ordinary". I think he should be benched and made to fight for his place like any other player. The club, the fans, and Cav will only benefit from a more hungry player who lately seems to have become somewhat complacent during periods of the game. Finally, It's human nature for critics to use the word "overrated" when others unnecessarily big up players that don't statistically "make much difference" or deserve it. (Kalvin Phillips is an example once again). The stats don't lie. But opinions are healthy.

TBF we had our differences earlier but that’s some very good stats and as you say neither really make a case for him to be in or out the side. For me he offers more from the defensive side of his game than the attacking element but then I’m not sure it’s his role to play the more advanced game, I feel Husin defo should push further forward at times. However anyone at Torquay last season saw first hand what he can do. For certain he hasn’t returned the same player to the one before his injury and the player that won all the awards last season but still does enough as he did last night to warrant a place in the side. But at least it’s nice to be able to talk about dropping/resting certain players with replacements available rather than no other option. Again good stats though

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

We’re lucky to have Morton to cover, but I’d not yet start him over Cav.

What Cav does well is break up play and start attacks. Yes he’s maybe been guilty of the odd sloppy pass recently, so have others. Teams pressing us from the front will put extra pressure on as both Aldershot and Alty did. Miley is maybe just missing that slight bit of sharpness. He’s important to the way Kev wants to play though and understands the role.

If someone’s sprinting through midfield I know I’d rather have Cav standing there to block him than anyone else.

 

[Blue Streak]

TBF we had our differences earlier but that’s some very good stats and as you say neither really make a case for him to be in or out the side. For me he offers more from the defensive side of his game than the attacking element but then I’m not sure it’s his role to play the more advanced game, I feel Husin defo should push further forward at times. However anyone at Torquay last season saw first hand what he can do. For certain he hasn’t returned the same player to the one before his injury and the player that won all the awards last season but still does enough as he did last night to warrant a place in the side. But at least it’s nice to be able to talk about dropping/resting certain players with replacements available rather than no other option. Again good stats though

Another interesting stat when you drill it down, and again this is a flat stat without any subjectivity, is that without Cav we would score 4 and concede exactly 3. With Cav we score 4 but concede 3.56. Like I say it's a flat stat based on games he played in and doesn't consider how other players performed or how difficult the opposition were. But...the 4 to 3 includes 2 Barnet losses and a Bromley loss (difficult fixtures). The 4 to 3.56 only includes a Chesterfield loss in the stats. It's all subjective but "the stats don't lie"

 

[Mark Corrigan]

Probably an unpopular opinion judging by other posts but I thought Cav was superb after a shaky first 30 mins.

He made several key tackles, the thing I like about him is even if he is struggling he doesn't go missing, he always wants to be part of it.

He's also been quite unlucky that the two times he has given the ball away in the last two games it has led to goals, if that didn't happen I don't think it would be highlighted so much.

Quite surprised some are calling for him to be dropped, he's been our most consistent player for the last two seasons now. Form is temporary, stick with him.

 

[shrimperjon]

Probably an unpopular opinion judging by other posts but I thought Cav was superb after a shaky first 30 mins.

He made several key tackles, the thing I like about him is even if he is struggling he doesn't go missing, he always wants to be part of it.

He's also been quite unlucky that the two times he has given the ball away in the last two games it has led to goals, if that didn't happen I don't think it would be highlighted so much.

Quite surprised some are calling for him to be dropped, he's been our most consistent player for the last two seasons now. Form is temporary, stick with him.

That’s my view for sure, he has misplaced a few passes but his defensive qualities Saturday and again last night were for all to see. He’d be one of the first on the team sheet for me, but as some of the stats show whether he plays or not seems to make little difference but to those that attend regularly those stats would surprise some, but stats are stats

 

[Grayson]

Another interesting stat when you drill it down, and again this is a flat stat without any subjectivity, is that without Cav we would score 4 and concede exactly 3. With Cav we score 4 but concede 3.56. Like I say it's a flat stat based on games he played in and doesn't consider how other players performed or how difficult the opposition were. But...the 4 to 3 includes 2 Barnet losses and a Bromley loss (difficult fixtures). The 4 to 3.56 only includes a Chesterfield loss in the stats. It's all subjective but "the stats don't lie"

There's nothing interesting about this sample size.

Stats often lie over a whole season, let alone a few weeks.

 

[shrimperjon]

Another interesting stat when you drill it down, and again this is a flat stat without any subjectivity, is that without Cav we would score 4 and concede exactly 3. With Cav we score 4 but concede 3.56. Like I say it's a flat stat based on games he played in and doesn't consider how other players performed or how difficult the opposition were. But...the 4 to 3 includes 2 Barnet losses and a Bromley loss (difficult fixtures). The 4 to 3.56 only includes a Chesterfield loss in the stats. It's all subjective but "the stats don't lie"

As you say though it doesn’t take into account who else played, how others performed in the team or how the other side performed. Cav can have a blinder but mistakes from others cost us goals etc. if you look at the Barnet games and Bromley we could and should have scored in both Barnet games and I felt we were the better side in both games, but we couldn’t score, Brooklyn through one on one at Barnet springs to mind. Bromley at home was also a game we should have won. So we could easily have won all three games. Football is all about moments In games, decision making individually and as a collective. Great stats though

 

[Jay_SUFC]

Some interesting opinions of Cav Miley. I sit in the West stand in block T and I have yet to hear anyone screaming for Miley to be taken off. As I said earlier, he is still coming back to form after a bad injury and there will be some mistakes. He adds more to the team performance and confidence than is immediately obvious, and as for rinsing @shrimperjon for having an opinion, just a bit unfair I reckon. Some on here have no time for Kev Mayer, dating back to his playing days, and they now spend time battering some of his signings for that reason.

It wasn't just last night though, he's been off his game for a while and how long are we going to keep going on about "coming back from injury" it's been nearly 2 months!!

We finally have cover and therefore I feel he should be rested and get his game back with some sub appearances - I certainly want to see the old Cav back, but we're lucky those mistakes haven't cost us.

 

[Blue Streak]

There's nothing interesting about this sample size.

Stats often lie over a whole season, let alone a few weeks.

Stats don't lie. Interpretation does. Stats are fact. It's how you use them that's contentious.

 

[Mark Corrigan]

Stats don't lie. Interpretation does. Stats are fact. It's how you use them that's contentious.

That's correct, I'd take it with a pinch of salt personally, too many permutations and equations and a pretty small sample size to look to much into that stat in particular.

Stats can easily be manipulated to suit almost any agenda.

 

[* ORM *]

Atmosphere? In the East stand?

Was Russ Abbott scouting as well?

 

[Mr Browns Ghost]

Wonder who they were scouting ?

Colin the keeper apparently

 

[Jai]

Miley is probably our best player. In fact, he's arguably in the top 5 midfielders in the division. He's certainly the best defensive midfielder in the division. There have been a couple of errors in the last couple of games, but you have to wonder how much it has stood out because it is so uncharacteristic. Also, for at least one of the giveaways on Saturday he was clearly fouled, but the referee had obviously forgotten his whistle in the first half.

He was sorely missed during his injury, but people seem to have forgotten the Bromley and Altrincham games in November/December where his presence would likely have gained us at least a point. We looked even more vulnerable in transition throughout that period, and the fantastic tackle he put in on Conn Clarke on Tuesday demonstrates his importance in that area. We have had one of the best defences in the National League since he joined the club, and he is a huge part of that.

You're certainly not dropping him away to Oldham where you would expect the home side to have a fair percentage of the possession.

 

[Blue Streak]

That's correct, I'd take it with a pinch of salt personally, too many permutations and equations and a pretty small sample size to look to much into that stat in particular.

Stats can easily be manipulated to suit almost any agenda.

No. Stats can't be manipulated. It's a stat that Southend have won their last 3 games. Are you suggesting that can be changed ? It's a stat. It's a fact. I'm not sure you understand what a stat is. Stats can't be manipulated. They can be interpreted differently but not changed. The guy who wanted to see stats was interested in how we did when Miley was injured versus when he returned. In order to make an accurate comparison the sample size for each has to be the same size. Unfortunately we have only played 8 with him back versus 13 when he was injured. The only way to make a comparison, albeit contentious, is to gross up the stats for 8 games to 13 using averages. That leads to potential inaccuracies of course because the opposition may have been harder or easier. But facts are facts. Interpret them as you wish in-line with your opinion, bias and agenda. I just analysed the facts because someone asked and it wasn't beyond me. Look forward to seeing your analysis of the stats at the end of "a full season".

 

[* ORM *]

There was a set to about stats
And whether they differed from facts
Leave it alone
It’s not for the Zone
No need to be acting like prats

 

[Evening Echo]

ALTRINCHAM boss Phil Parkinson heaped praise on Southend United following his side’s 2-1 defeat at Roots Hall.

Read more on this story


Help with Echo links

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

ALTRINCHAM boss Phil Parkinson heaped praise on Southend United following his side’s 2-1 defeat at Roots Hall.

Blues fought back from a goal down to condemn the Robins to a fourth straight defeat, but Parkinson was impressed with how the Shrimpers performed.

“In the first half they were outstanding and we scored against the run of play on a break away,” Parkinson told the club's YouTube channel.

“We had a couple of counter attacks but nothing major and I feared the worst with how good Southend were.

“I have to give them a lot of credit and they're a very good outfit.

“Our lads couldn't quite stand up to the pressure and conceded close together again. “

However, Parkinson took heart from the second half.

“In the second half the resilience to come back,” said Parkinson.

“We looked dead and buried because they were very, very good but we didn't roll over and we played our way which we looked scared to do in the first half.

“I saw enough in the second half to show green shoots of recovery.

 

[Holy Joe]

Stats don't lie. Interpretation does. Stats are fact. It's how you use them that's contentious.

Someone clever once said/wrote, There are lies, damned lies and statistics.