Steve Tilson

[palexander]

With the best will in the world Yorkshire, I think the words 'tactically astute' in the same sentence as Steve Tilson is being kind - thats not sour grapes either, aside from most fans that have a decent tactical understanding of the game, Shaun Goater said as much in his autobiog.

Every now and again you will make a change that comes off - but for everyone Tilly does do, I would point to the points we have surely dropped by playing the same old 4-4-2 and being so rigid its frightening.

Welly, your point about the cash is valid - and as fans, its something we have to be realistic about. All the money is going into the new stadium and if it aint there, then it aint there. Thats not Martin's fault - he cannot magic money up, especially in the current climate.

As others have said, many other teams and managers have coped on tiny budgets and even if we rely on loan players, it bothers me massively that Tilly had the chance to bring in some defensive cover and instead signed 3 left-sided kids :(

To me, Tilly never truely gets a grips of the deficiencies in a squad and we always end up unbalanced.

Bringing Barret back today was a mistake, but Tilly has rarely dropped a captain. When Maher was ever out he was always straight back in. Rightly or wrongly, I didnt expect any different - but it was the wrong choice. Should have kept the same side as Boxing Day, but with Harding in for Herd, who did deserve his place on the bench...

 

[palexander]

The problem isn't exactly with Tilson if you ask me...


The team had to be completely rebuilt at the beginning of the season. Nicky Bailey done the job of 2 midfielders when he played, surging forward but still being their at the back to break up play... Fact of the matter is we haven't got two midfielders who can do those tasks, let alone one. Christophe and Sawyer done them individually and we enjoyed our best spell of form when they were in the team, I find it to be no coincedence that we've failed to find any form at all since these two have departed.

Now, you can lay the blame at the players door. Macca has been simply awful in comparison to his former self since returning, Milsom offers very little and Anthony Grant needs someone capable beside him. The defence, even though only losing Mulgrew for Harding, has gone from bad to worse to abysmal and, if you ask me, is the sole reason we are struggling at the moment.

Alternatively, you can lay the blame at Tilson's door. It was painstakingly obvious that we needed additional players, especially in the middle to replace Bailey and Gower... yet it took us until September, yet again, to bring in players. Instead, we spent the summer pursuing Paul Furlong, who was replaced by Dougie Freedman and fell into the abyss with Richie Foran, never to be seen again. Tilson failed to bring in the players we needed over the summer and we've suffered massively because of it. Although, to a certain extent, Tilly has had his hands tied by a harsh economic climate and a stadium build on the horizon in desperate need of funding.

It's not just one thing, it's a series of events that have led to this. Unfortunately, this could all have been avoided with planning...

This season was always going to be a long, tough fight with a less than adequate squad, it's a little harsh to be asking for Tilson's removal when he's done a good job just to keep us in contention. Next season, however, is pivotal to our success and should we still be languishing, that's the time to ask questions about the management.

This was one point on the discussion home - 'how long' do you give Tilly? We are in relative freefall at the moment and if Sawyer doesnt come back in Jan (and no other decent moves are made) then we could realistically be in a relegation scrap on this form.

Are you happy to go down to League 2 with Tilly at the helm?

 

[Welly7]

As others have said, many other teams and managers have coped on tiny budgets

Tilly has managed pretty well on a small budget for five years!!

 

[Andy_S]

Think that Tilly's hands are, and have been, tied by lack of funds from the Chairman

For me, he's got to stay. Without doubt. With financial backing he'll take us up the table.

For the first point - I don't agree with this and never do when people say it. Ron came out in the summer and openly said he was waiting for Tilly to come to him with who he wanted to buy and he was surprised when Tilly was not forthcoming.

The second point - I don't agree with this either and think it's probably linked to the my reply to your first point. When Tilly has spent money he's failed badly on the whole. Bailey was an exception. His cheap signings have been the best, of that there is no doubt. Perhaps he didn't spend money in the summer due to not wanting to have another Foran, Harrold, Paynter, Ricketts (bigger wages) and the very much work in progress Walker who hasn't justified his fee. Let's not forget that in January Tilly wanted to spend £300,000 on Calvin Andrew! A striker who has an appalling scoring record and who - 6 months later - went to Palace for just £80,000. We escaped on that one big time.

 

[DTS]

I think the real issue is the lack of funds rather than anything Tilly has done wrong.

He has proven this season that he can still spot a player and when we had the players that he wanted (Sawyer, JFC, Harding, HRK) we looked like a pretty decent side.

Of those four all but HRK have said or are reported to have said that they would come here. So clearly Tilly can still pick good players and convince them Southend is the place to be.

However the real issue is we cant afford them. This is no wonder when every penny that we have is going towards the new stadium I expect. We dont have a god given right to be promoted and to be honest we are probably better off in this league while the stadium is in the horizon as boring as that can be for us the fans.

All these calls for Tillys head all be it early days ignore the real issues in my book that we have little money. A good man does not turn bad over night. Lets be honest when Tilly has had money he has often if I can say this wasted it.

I personally am happy to see where we are come the end of Jan. I suspect we were in a similar position last season and still made it to the play offs.

Sometimes in life you have to take a leap of faith when things are tough and I feel now is one of those times.

 

[Southampton Shrimper]

Tilly has had to completely rebuild the team that won the League One title two years ago and managed, don't forget, to take us all the way to the play-off semi-final just seven months ago.

This season he has guided us into a play-off berth. But then what happened? The team he had put together that were gelling into a winning outfit began to disintegrate. Having drawn at then leaders Scunthorpe to consolidate our 6th position, we lost Lee Barnard. This a short time after losing Dougie Freedman to injury. The decline started. Laurent showed himself to be a revelation in their place and then got injured. Then the dynamic midfield pairing of Christophe and Sawyer was lost, HRK and Federici returned to Reading. None of this can be said to be Tilson's fault! It's not down to him that key players get long-term injuries. His hands are tied with respect to loan deals, as there are certain rules as to how long they may last and not many clubs will be as accommodating as Ipswich have been in lending a player on a long-term deal.

Of the team that started against Scunthorpe, only five started against MK Dons this afternoon. We have suffered a major transition in manpower, losing many quality players. The key to our season is what Tilson can do in January. It seems pretty certain that Christophe will be returning (has this been 100% confirmed? - I can't find it on the OS!) and we know that Tilson wants to sign Harding and Sawyer. Laurent and Macca have shown that just because someone comes back from injury, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are automatically going to be as on top of their form as they were earlier in the season, so they need time, as Dougie and Lee will do too.

Tilly has made some great signings already this season, if he can make some more in January and the returning players can return to form, then results can improve in the New Year. But to think about getting rid of Tilly now, on the eve of the transfer window, would be foolish and irrational, in my opinion.

 

[shrimperton]

The team is letting us all down from the boardroom to the fans, they cannot possibly perform like this again, it aint luck its just 7 out of 11 are not good enough or performing like they can, and thats a job for tilly to sort out, if he cant then someone else must come in.

We were crap at MK no doubts we couldnt string two passes together and their dodgy keeper was not closed down on his wayward kicking.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

I'm writing this quickly, but I'll try to keep it in some semblence of order:

1. Crisis - what crisis?

We're 13th. As close to dead central mid-table as we possibly can be, having lost one more than we've won. Our form is poor, but previous to that it was very good. Over the course of the season we've been an average League One team, and that's no justification for sacking the manager.

2. January is around the corner.

We're a team in transition, struggling with injury problems and changing on-loan personnel. Hopefully in January Tilson can do something to settle that situation down a little, but you simply can't build a team overnight. What is clear is that players enjoy playing for Tilly. If he can garner the respect of guys like Sawyer, Freedman and Harding, and potentially allow us to sign that calibre of player, then he's just the man to build us back up as far as I'm concerned.

3. Making the manager's position a poisoned chalice.

What if we do sack Tilson now? It interests me that once more nobody's in any hurry to suggest a constructive way forwards. Tilson's track record is predominately one of success. If we fire him on account of an average season to date what kind of message does that send to anybody considering applying for the job? Our attendances, our stadium (for the time being) - pretty much everything about the club at the moment places us on a par with other League One clubs. If we go sacking the management because we're 13th we seriously undermine the attractiveness of the position.

4. What if the grass isn't greener?

You can't unsack a manager. Even if he did come back later it would have to affect his relationship with the chairman. As things stand we have one of the most settled management teams in the Football League. Once we call time on that, it's gone and in all probability we're stuck in the cycle of having somebody come in, impose his ideas for a few years, move on for one reason or another only to be succeeded by somebody else with a completely different set of ideas. That's precisely the state of affairs that Tilly rescued us from and I'm in no hurry to go back there.

 

[rlb999]

I think this is all very harsh. This is season 6 for Steve Tilson.

1. Took us from relegation form to mid table.
2. Promoted.
3. Promoted.
4. Relegated from a league we weren't ready for.
5. Play Offs.
6. This season.

I'm sure Tilson is sticking pins in his legs each night as self punishment for not qualifying for the champions league so far.

And what will happen this season? Who knows.
Tilson knew before the start that we needed players and spent the summer seeking recruits.
He didn't get anywhere, and as such astutely picked up some good loan signings which saw us through the first half of the season - i believe we were actually within touching distance of a play offs position before they left.
We now approach the transfer window with Tilly knowing that we need a few additions. He can't do anything about it before the window - I'm sure I'll try and do something during the window.
We're currently mid table and not playing too well. If Tilly is successful during the window, we'll probably finish top half, if not better.
Should we sack him on that basis?

Also, before Tilson, we had nearly a decade of

1) Wignall
2) Newman
3) Webb (mark 3)
4) Taylor
5) Whelan
6) Martin
7) Little

It's difficult to remember too many good times under any of this lot, or even remember too many good signings made by them. They all had similar resources to Tilson. He delivered. They didn't.

I find it incredible that people have now got the knives out. If we were in the relegation zone, I could understand it. If we'd had season after season of mediocrity I could understand it. If he'd blown millions of pounds on crap players I could understand it. But we're not. We're 2 or 3 players and a bit of good form away from a promotion bid - MK Dons seem to be going up and they weren't all that.

We've got a manager that most other clubs would love to have, and should start to appreciate it.

 

[Welly7]

For the first point - I don't agree with this and never do when people say it. Ron came out in the summer and openly said he was waiting for Tilly to come to him with who he wanted to buy and he was surprised when Tilly was not forthcoming.

The second point - I don't agree with this either and think it's probably linked to the my reply to your first point. When Tilly has spent money he's failed badly on the whole. Bailey was an exception. His cheap signings have been the best, of that there is no doubt. Perhaps he didn't spend money in the summer due to not wanting to have another Foran, Harrold, Paynter, Ricketts (bigger wages) and the very much work in progress Walker who hasn't justified his fee. Let's not forget that in January Tilly wanted to spend £300,000 on Calvin Andrew! A striker who has an appalling scoring record and who - 6 months later - went to Palace for just £80,000. We escaped on that one big time.

Don't agree at all. If a manager is told there is money to spend then he'll spend it. He won't be worried about big cash signings because his hands have burnt with the likes of Foran & Paynter. Not every signing is going to work out like a dream and throughout the history of football, very good managers have made bad signings and Tilly isn't that good to buck that trend.

As for Ron being "surprised" Tilly wasn't forthcoming with a list of potential signings, lets just say I'm not "surprised" Ron is deflecting criticism away from himself onto others so he remains the apple of many fans eye...

 

[shrimperton]

Ron said he could make this club fly with the new stadium, but the team needs to be flying much before that to sustain the support and interest from the public eye.

Ron needs to give Tilson some money cos the current performances are league 2.

 

[rlb999]

Don't agree at all. If a manager is told there is money to spend then he'll spend it. He won't be worried about big cash signings because his hands have burnt with the likes of Foran & Paynter. Not every signing is going to work out like a dream and throughout the history of football, very good managers have made bad signings and Tilly isn't that good to buck that trend.

As for Ron being "surprised" Tilly wasn't forthcoming with a list of potential signings, lets just say I'm not "surprised" Ron is deflecting criticism away from himself onto others so he remains the apple of many fans eye...

But it is true that his 'bargains' are better than his 'big' signings. He's spent a lot of money for a club of our size. You can't say the chairman hasn't backed him.

 

[chapperzUK]

To be honest if he hadn't had played for Southend before then he would have been out the door. His team selections are confusing and a lack of transfer activity (replacing Bailey and Eastwood).

 

[Grayson]

a lack of transfer activity (replacing Bailey and Eastwood).

Because that's easy, isn't it?

 

[palexander]

Good points raised by both sides of the argument and it doesnt surprise me, as it was the basis of the discussion on the way home.

I dont buy into the 'well come on, who do we replace him with?' - its not easy to say, but if the job was available, we'd have a stack of CV's. Thats not something we can easily say as there will be coaches, assistants, ex-managers etc applying (bear in mind that Swindon recently had 50+ applicants for their job).

I wont embarrass myself by banding any names around, but I dont think we'd have a shortage of applicants.

Will replacing Tilly be the answer? Who knows? Who knows if NOT replacing him is the answer? Nobody.

I definitely appreciate that we are unlucky at the moment with injuries - but how often do you see a side sack a manager and then all of a sudden, then new boss has a fit squad to choose from and players stay fit... a fair bit, its just that magic managers luck!

Even so, as I mentioned before, Tilly had ample chance to get in 1 or 2 defenders to give us some cover there, but either chose not too, or couldnt identify any targets to come in. Either way, it didnt happen and that buck stops with Tilly.

As I've said every time I bring this up (and nobody seems to answer) - how long does Steve's past success give him? Till January? End of the season? After relegation? How long do YOU give him?

Tilly isnt untouchable - good managers DO get sacked. Doesnt mean they are a bad manager, it can be for any number of reasons - even a run of badly timed luck. Thing is a change in personnel, can bring a change of fortune and perhaps Tilly's talents at this time in his career have taken us as far as he can?

I still maintain that the 11 out there today can perform much better than they did today - and have been doing the last couple of months. Even with Sawyer in the side, most of the remaining players playing today were in that side that had a good run, so I dont believe its all due to 1 or 2 loan players going back to their parent clubs.

 

[steveo]

What we need is Tilly to be given time to build a new team.

Patience, shrimpers, patience.

Possibly Yorkie but consider these for a minute and i posted something similar before:

Eastwood - MacDonald
Goater - Furlong
Sodje - Richards
JCR - Betsy

to a lesser degree Bailey -Grant.

The ones on the left all did great for us but they could have easily have turned out to be the ones on the right. Then the first promotion would never have happened and Tilly would probably have been gone.

Tilly seems to be signing players - and using the clubs limited resources - who simply are not good enough to get us to the play offs. Betsy, Furlong, Revell, Grant, maybe Laurent.

He needs to do something good in the January window or we have to resign ourself to mid table mediocrity for years to come.

 

[Uncle Leo]

To be honest if he hadn't had played for Southend before then he would have been out the door. His team selections are confusing and a lack of transfer activity (replacing Bailey and Eastwood).

I really don't think so. His being a former Southend player (and not just any mug either, a member of two promotion winning teams) is always going to help him in the eyes of the fans, but from the point of view of the board, they need to be satisfied he is doing a good job. Doesn't matter whether he played for Southend United or Neptune Rovers.

Ask someone who doesn't follow SUFC to analyse what Tilson has done in his time as manager, the chaos that preceded him and the current situation objectively and I reckon most people would agree that he deserves the chance to take the club forward.

 

[Csboy]

As always with these 'Tilson should go' threads no one suggests who should take over and where we are going to get the money to a) pay off Tilson & Brush and b) pay for a new manager. Would mean it would come out of the transfer kitty which is hardly bulging right now.

I remember back in 1983 we were calling for Dave Smith to go after he had been at Roots Hall for 7 years most people including myself thought he had taken us as far as he could and it was time for a change. What happens he gets sacked we appoint Peter Morris a far inferior manager to Smith. In the end we ended up sacking Morris 6 months later bring in Bobby Moore who was just as bad as Morris we get relegated from the old 3rd Division(now League 1) and ended up finishing 5th from bottom in the 4th Division the next season. Had we kept Smith I am sure we would have stayed up that season in the 3rd Division.
I can see the samething happening if Tilson goes. The chances of finding a good manager again are slim, there are a lot of bad managers out there as we saw in the past at Southend before Tilson took over.

 

[palexander]

As always with these 'Tilson should go' threads no one suggests who should take over and where we are going to get the money to a) pay off Tilson & Brush and b) pay for a new manager. Would mean it would come out of the transfer kitty which is hardly bulging right now.

I remember back in 1983 we were calling for Dave Smith to go after he had been at Roots Hall for 7 years most people including myself thought he had taken us as far as he could and it was time for a change. What happens he gets sacked we appoint Peter Morris a far inferior manager to Smith. In the end we ended up sacking Morris 6 months later bring in Bobby Moore who was just as bad as Morris we get relegated from the old 3rd Division(now League 1) and ended up finishing 5th from bottom in the 4th Division the next season. Had we kept Smith I am sure we would have stayed up that season in the 3rd Division.
I can see the samething happening if Tilson goes. The chances of finding a good manager again are slim, there are a lot of bad managers out there as we saw in the past at Southend before Tilson took over.

There are plenty of decent managers out there i'm sure - and as I said, thats down to the board to chose the best applicant out of any CVs we receive - many of which we would probably never think of. Suggesting anyone would be folly.

How long are you prepared to give him CS?

 

[A Century United]

Three of our best players have been out injured for extended periods. When Freedman, Barney, and Macca come back unsuprisingly, they aren't immediately at the top of their game. As has been pointed out, our team is in the middle of a complete rebuild - I seem to recall a very similar time just before the last January window, and Tilly brought in the right players then.

Today, we hit the post twice and had an effort scooped off the line, against a team that have won 10 of their last 11 league games. How about people take those points into consideration before they start calling for Tilson's head?

For the record, I wouldn't have brought Adam back into the team but then it's an easy game from the terraces. How many League one managers would leave their club captain out because a make-shift centre back pairing hadn't let in a goal against the mighty Cobblers?