The EU Referendum

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I haven't suggested that they are not 'legitimate'...you came up with that on your own.

I have merely pointed out that if the young males who fought oppression in Europe had run away or sought refuge elsewhere....then it is possible that we would be living under a dictatorship and not enjoying the freedom we do today.

As you say fighting oppression is a noble cause, isn't it a shame that these young male Syrians think differently to us?

If you back track a little MrsBlue was arguing that the 250,000 dead in Syria doesn't mean leaving Syria necessarily class people as refugees. She thought their odds were ok to stick around. She said in the UK they would be deserters, I pointed out they live under a dictatorship - then you stepped in. You may not have intended to back her argument but stepping in when you did you are standing in her shadow.

I suspect that the Syrian refugees see fighting oppression as noble but maybe if their president is killing them and IS are killing them and US and France and Uk are bombing what they assume to be IS areas, and Russia are bombing anti Assad areas. If you are a plumber or a farmer or work in IT and don't have access to decent weaponry or have any confidence in your own ability to protect your family from all of the above you might get to the point where you decide to try your luck getting on a boat that looks like it's going to sink but you still fancy your chances in that more than the multitude of factions that seem intent on killing the people around you.

Under those circumstances, personally I wouldn't condemn anyone for seeking refuge. At least till foreign nations have stopped bombing both types of opposition to the dictatorship.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Have I said that?

I was simply agreeing with AAS's view that fighting oppression is a noble thing....it just seems a pity that there is a significant amount of young male Syrians who think differently.

Perhaps if the West (including the UK) had armed Syrian moderates, ie people opposed to the Assad regime some years ago, there wouldn't have been anything like the current flight of Syrian refugees to Europe?

Many of whom are families btw and not just "young male Syrians".

Just saying like.

 

[callan]

If you back track a little MrsBlue was arguing that the 250,000 dead in Syria doesn't mean leaving Syria necessarily class people as refugees. She thought their odds were ok to stick around. She said in the UK they would be deserters, I pointed out they live under a dictatorship - then you stepped in. You may not have intended to back her argument but stepping in when you did you are standing in her shadow.

I suspect that the Syrian refugees see fighting oppression as noble but maybe if their president is killing them and IS are killing them and US and France and Uk are bombing what they assume to be IS areas, and Russia are bombing anti Assad areas. If you are a plumber or a farmer or work in IT and don't have access to decent weaponry or have any confidence in your own ability to protect your family from all of the above you might get to the point where you decide to try your luck getting on a boat that looks like it's going to sink but you still fancy your chances in that more than the multitude of factions that seem intent on killing the people around you.

Under those circumstances, personally I would condemn anyone for seeking refuge. At least till foreign nations have stopped bombing both types of opposition to the dictatorship.

Suspecting and knowing are two different things.

As for the second part I have highlighted, perhaps it's time for you to call it a night or do a quick edit!

 

[callan]

Perhaps if the West (including the UK) had armed Syrian moderates, ie people opposed to the Assad regime some years ago, there wouldn't have been anything like the current flight of Syrian refugees to Europe?

Are you in favour of the UK backing military intervention in the middle east then?

Just asking like :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Suspecting and knowing are two different things.

As for the second part I have highlighted, perhaps it's time for you to call it a night or do a quick edit!

I edited quick smart, I'll choose not to face you I a quick draw duel.

Suspecting and knowing are different things which under the circumstances people are living in where 250,000 are dead and various nations and internal forces are making the territory unlivable I'm willing to give fleeing civilians the benefit of doubt - I don't think it requires too much humanity to do that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Are you in favour of the UK backing military intervention in the middle east then?

Just asking like :winking:

If the circumstances are fully justified, most definitely.

 

[callan]

I edited quick smart, I'll choose not to face you I a quick draw duel.

Suspecting and knowing are different things which under the circumstances people are living in where 250,000 are dead and various nations and internal forces are making the territory unlivable I'm willing to give fleeing civilians the benefit of doubt - I don't think it requires too much humanity to do that.

I saw your edit!

Do you agree with Barna that the UK should have intervened and backed the Syrian rebels?

 

[callan]

If the circumstances are fully justified, most definitely.

Are you absolutely sure Barna?....I'm prepared to give you a pass here if you want to change your mind quickly.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I saw your edit!

Do you agree with Barna that the UK should have intervened and backed the Syrian rebels?

Yes, I'm interventionist. I suspect this is a trap as Milliband's Labour and other opposition parties voted against intervention but I believe they were against Cameron's style of intervention rather than the concept itself. They suspected the type of intervention being put forward was repeating past mistakes.

I'm done for today.

 

[callan]

Yes, I'm interventionist. I suspect this is a trap as Milliband's Labour and other opposition parties voted against intervention but I believe they were against Cameron's style of intervention rather than the concept itself. They suspected the type of intervention being put forward was repeating past mistakes.

I'm done for today.

I think its fair to say there were and are voices on here that were against any kind of intervention in Syria, so it would be legitimate to point that out to them.

Milliband will be remembered for his stone and inability to eat a sandwich properly not his contribution toward the Syrian crisis.

 

[mrsblue]

If you back track a little MrsBlue was arguing that the 250,000 dead in Syria doesn't mean leaving Syria necessarily class people as refugees. She thought their odds were ok to stick around. She said in the UK they would be deserters, I pointed out they live under a dictatorship - then you stepped in. You may not have intended to back her argument but stepping in when you did you are standing in her shadow.

I suspect that the Syrian refugees see fighting oppression as noble but maybe if their president is killing them and IS are killing them and US and France and Uk are bombing what they assume to be IS areas, and Russia are bombing anti Assad areas. If you are a plumber or a farmer or work in IT and don't have access to decent weaponry or have any confidence in your own ability to protect your family from all of the above you might get to the point where you decide to try your luck getting on a boat that looks like it's going to sink but you still fancy your chances in that more than the multitude of factions that seem intent on killing the people around you.

Under those circumstances, personally I wouldn't condemn anyone for seeking refuge. At least till foreign nations have stopped bombing both types of opposition to the dictatorship.

If women and children were the only people fleeing then that is one thing and totally understandable,yet we see strong fit young men "fleeing" to come into Europe to assault women or commit crime !

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If women and children were the only people fleeing then that is one thing and totally understandable,yet we see strong fit young men "fleeing" to come into Europe to assault women or commit crime !

I have been asked by more than one person not to respond to your posts as it just encourages to make more and more ludicrous statements. With what you have just written I think I'll go along with their requests. You are a clown.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Are you in favour of the UK backing military intervention in the middle east then?

Just asking like :winking:

With the way our soldiers from the Iraq war are being hounded by legal aid funded lawyers for "war crimes" I would expect there to be an uncertain amount of concern about entering any war zone.


#worldgonebonkers

 

[mrsblue]

I have been asked by more than one person not to respond to your posts as it just encourages to make more and more ludicrous statements. With what you have just written I think I'll go along with their requests. You are a clown.

You realise this is an Internet forum where people can air their view whether good or bad?

You chose the insult route which normally means you have lost the debate,I won't insult you because I don't wish to stoop that low.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You realise this is an Internet forum where people can air their view whether good or bad?

You chose the insult route which normally means you have lost the debate,I won't insult you because I don't wish to stoop that low.

With your well adjusted finely tuned debating techniques I suspect if you ever were tempted to stoop low your internal filter would prevent you from doing so.

 

[mrsblue]

With your well adjusted finely tuned debating techniques I suspect if you ever were tempted to stoop low your internal filter would prevent you from doing so.[/QUOTE



Learn to play the post not the poster,now why don't you toddle off to Calais and help the needy.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

With your well adjusted finely tuned debating techniques I suspect if you ever were tempted to stoop low your internal filter would prevent you from doing so.[/QUOTE



Learn to play the post not the poster,now why don't you toddle off to Calais and help the needy.

Posts don't write themselves - take responsibility for your deluded rantings and maybe stop and think before putting them where other people can see them.

 

[mrsblue]

Posts don't write themselves - take responsibility for your deluded rantings and maybe stop and think before putting them where other people can see them.

Many probably think your inviting view where everyone is welcome is dangerous and mad !

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Many probably think your inviting view where everyone is welcome is dangerous and mad !

Then you should argue that in a balanced manner rather than...well read back over this thread. If you have anything valid to say you allow it to get hidden by hysteria and input that seems to just be looking for a reaction. You can't be notorious and be taken seriously - make a choice.

 

[mrsblue]

Then you should argue that in a balanced manner rather than...well read back over this thread. If you have anything valid to say you allow it to get hidden by hysteria and input that seems to just be looking for a reaction. You can't be notorious and be taken seriously - make a choice.

I have in my opinion!

Nearly one million men have deserted their country to get into Europe...Fact
Some of these same men carried out various crimes on NYE...Fact
The majority of these men will not find work according to a German official.
10% of these men will turn to crime,again according to the same official.
At least 2 of these men were involved in the Paris massacre..Fact
German taxpayers will pay 12 billion per year to keep these men according to reports.

What exactly is the point.