The Everlasting Debate

[Tangled up in Blue]

Once again, we don't do that.

If we don't,we should.It works.

 

[A Century United]

If we don't,we should.It works.

Claptrap. Not with the players we can afford it doesn't. As Beefy has already pointed out both Hereford and Barnet tried pass-and-move last season. Not exactly a roaring success if you don't have the players to implement it.

And it is asinine to claim that Luggy is a pure hoofball merchant, and that playing the ball forward quickly results in losing possession 50% of the time. Luggy's style is to mix it up, and with the players we have it is the most successful strategy.

And Mick, if you think that the football last season is some of the dullest in decades, you have an astonishingly short memory. Whelan's successive relegation seasons, Alvin's happy tenure, etc. Not only dull but deeply unsuccessful. I suffered through all that and more and I know what I prefer, and that's winning matches and battling at the upper end of the table.

 

[bigmolt]

Once again, we don't do that.[/QUOTE

Oh yes we do !!!!

 

[Beefy]

I can't remember too many seasons when the bulk of the home matches weren't instantly forgettable garbage.

 

[john]

I personally don't care what kind of football is played as long as it's successful. Surely that's the goal of EVERY Southend Utd supporter, success.

Not EVERY fan, no. I want to watch decent football. I'd rather be entertained than have to endure a successful monstrosity of a team.

 

[South Bank Hank]

The big man's right you know. This debate doesn't seem to be running out of steam at all.

 

[Jam_Man]

Once again, we don't do that.

As Ive said before Ive only seen accrington and we certainly didnt do that,we tried to pass until Cresswell on.

Prior to then the passing was generally ok, except Prosser who insisted on hoofing the ball up the line, which pretty much every time resulted in the ball going to the fullback. It wasnt even directed at a Blues player, just hopefully played forward into the channel.

When Cresswell came on he won every header, but I dont recall anyone ever getting onto a knock down.

Its all very well saying we play the ball foward to pick up 2nd balls and playing the ball in the last 3rd, but on far too many occassions what this actually meant was we had no possession whatsoever in the last 3rd. Some games we had only one or two chances on goal, even at home. T

By all means if playing that kind of football creates chances then thats fine, but after our great run ended there were too many games where it didnt and we dropped points. I dread having to sit through games like that again.

Sometimes its better to be able to retain possession to control games.

A more mixed approach would be welcome.

Im not sure Sturrock truly believes he can get us up using passing football, or that we have the players to do so, but is being pressured into doing so from above.

 

[A Century United]

Not EVERY fan, no. I want to watch decent football. I'd rather be entertained than have to endure a successful monstrosity of a team.

But what if that isn't the choice? What if not getting promoted proves fatal to SUFC? Or what if however you try and play it, League two football tends to be dull, indigestible stuff?

We need to get promotion by any realistic means available, and worry about the purely pretty stuff when we are at a level when we can attract the players to implement that. It simply isn't a choice between two equally viable systems. We have to mix it up and do what it takes.

 

[Smiffy]

Well I for one feel a bit sorry for Sturrock.

He is trying his best, in very difficult circumstances.

If any of us were in his position at present, we would probably be thinking about walking.

 

[dannyboy25]

Well I for one feel a bit sorry for Sturrock.

He is trying his best, in very difficult circumstances.

If any of us were in his position at present, we would probably be thinking about walking.

couldnt agree more

 

[Southampton Shrimper]

I don't think Freddy played up front with Dudfield, a couple of games maybe at most.

Freddy and Dudfield were both involved in 33 matches during season 2004/05.

Of those, Dudfield came on as a substitute to replace Freddy in 8 matches and Freddy came on for Dudfield in 2 matches. They started 7 matches together, but never lasted longer than 83 minutes together. Dudfield came on as a half-time substitute twice, once lasting the whole half with Freddy, once just a few minutes shy. In 12 of these 33 matches, they were on the pitch together for only 21 minutes or less.

It did not prove the most fruitful of partnerships, however. They spent 13 and a half hours together on the pitch, but this produced only 11 goals for the team. Dudfield never scored when Freddy was on the pitch. Freddy only managed four goals when Dudfield was on the pitch, two of which were penalties. Of the other two, one was the final goal in our 3-1 win at Kidderminster, and the other was that goal in the Play-Off Final at the Millennium Stadium.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Freddy and Dudfield were both involved in 33 matches during season 2004/05.

Of those, Dudfield came on as a substitute to replace Freddy in 8 matches and Freddy came on for Dudfield in 2 matches. They started 7 matches together, but never lasted longer than 83 minutes together. Dudfield came on as a half-time substitute twice, once lasting the whole half with Freddy, once just a few minutes shy. In 12 of these 33 matches, they were on the pitch together for only 21 minutes or less.

It did not prove the most fruitful of partnerships, however. They spent 13 and a half hours together on the pitch, but this produced only 11 goals for the team. Dudfield never scored when Freddy was on the pitch. Freddy only managed four goals when Dudfield was on the pitch, two of which were penalties. Of the other two, one was the final goal in our 3-1 win at Kidderminster, and the other was that goal in the Play-Off Final at the Millennium Stadium.

Brilliant stats!!!

 

[mattytheshrimper]

I always said I don't care how we play as long as we get out of this terrible league and I do still agree with that you a certain degree. As someone else mentioned on here. A large amount of games last season were so boring that you found yourself forgetting about what even happened.

As I say I want to get back to league 1 but I don't know how much I can watch this boring football for. People say we are not long ball, they need to wake up because all of last season pretty much it was all hoof hoof hoof. Had it worked and we went up last season we wouldn't be having this disbate but the attendances this season will show people are bored of our football and ultimately want entertaining not to be bored to death. I remember some teams last season who were passing it around brilliantly and beating us and we seemed to have better players.

I think Sturrock will get another season to get promoted but if we don't which I don't think we will unless we get another four players in which we won't he get the sack from Ron.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I always said I don't care how we play as long as we get out of this terrible league and I do still agree with that you a certain degree. As someone else mentioned on here. A large amount of games last season were so boring that you found yourself forgetting about what even happened.

As I say I want to get back to league 1 but I don't know how much I can watch this boring football for. People say we are not long ball, they need to wake up because all of last season pretty much it was all hoof hoof hoof. Had it worked and we went up last season we wouldn't be having this disbate but the attendances this season will show people are bored of our football and ultimately want entertaining not to be bored to death. I remember some teams last season who were passing it around brilliantly and beating us and we seemed to have better players.

I think Sturrock will get another season to get promoted but if we don't which I don't think we will unless we get another four players in which we won't he get the sack from Ron.

Ok so what happens if we get into league 1 with this manager ? It will be even worse, the next excuse will be we don't have the same budget as the bigger teams so we have to counter their good football with a "direct" style of play. It's all bullshite and a shame so many can't see through it for what it is, promotion wil not change Sturrocks style of play. If we did go up under him we would get hammered every week in my opinion.

 

[Beefy]

Sturrock has played other styles at other clubs. He didn't play long ball at Southampton. He didn't play long ball at Plymouth. I spoke to a couple of Sheffield Wednesday fans about him in a pub a few months ago and they only had positive things to say about him and what he did for their club. They certainly didn't moan about the style of play.

 

[Jam_Man]

Freddy and Dudfield were both involved in 33 matches during season 2004/05.

Of those, Dudfield came on as a substitute to replace Freddy in 8 matches and Freddy came on for Dudfield in 2 matches. They started 7 matches together, but never lasted longer than 83 minutes together. Dudfield came on as a half-time substitute twice, once lasting the whole half with Freddy, once just a few minutes shy. In 12 of these 33 matches, they were on the pitch together for only 21 minutes or less.

It did not prove the most fruitful of partnerships, however. They spent 13 and a half hours together on the pitch, but this produced only 11 goals for the team. Dudfield never scored when Freddy was on the pitch. Freddy only managed four goals when Dudfield was on the pitch, two of which were penalties. Of the other two, one was the final goal in our 3-1 win at Kidderminster, and the other was that goal in the Play-Off Final at the Millennium Stadium.

Brilliant stats!!!

Which prove what exactly?

Freddy didnt play that well off of Dudfield, but did so with Gray who wasnt a big targetman either ?

Eastwood didnt forge a partnership with either, he was constantly getting frustrated alongside Gray and the fact he may have scored more when he was in the team wasnt because of him, but because Freddy scored most of his goals off his own back.

 

[tangerine dream]

Sturrock has played other styles at other clubs. He didn't play long ball at Southampton. He didn't play long ball at Plymouth. I spoke to a couple of Sheffield Wednesday fans about him in a pub a few months ago and they only had positive things to say about him and what he did for their club. They certainly didn't moan about the style of play.

But those clubs aren't steeped in history like ours. We're renowned the world over for playing open attractive football. There's no pleasing some people.

 

[Jam_Man]

Sturrock has played other styles at other clubs. He didn't play long ball at Southampton. He didn't play long ball at Plymouth. I spoke to a couple of Sheffield Wednesday fans about him in a pub a few months ago and they only had positive things to say about him and what he did for their club. They certainly didn't moan about the style of play.

Is it me or are people just using "hoofball" as a nice peg to hang complaints about our results on ?

We have had a poor start so it must be the style of play. Even though like Ive said before thats not how we played against Accrington.

All seems too easy to blame 'hoofball'.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Sturrock has played other styles at other clubs. He didn't play long ball at Southampton. He didn't play long ball at Plymouth. I spoke to a couple of Sheffield Wednesday fans about him in a pub a few months ago and they only had positive things to say about him and what he did for their club. They certainly didn't moan about the style of play.

Which speaks volumes about our supporters, if you ask me.

Which prove what exactly?

Not sure they're supposed to prove anything as such, just stating facts in response to YB's earlier post.

 

[Mick]

And Mick, if you think that the football last season is some of the dullest in decades, you have an astonishingly short memory. Whelan's successive relegation seasons, Alvin's happy tenure, etc. Not only dull but deeply unsuccessful. I suffered through all that and more and I know what I prefer, and that's winning matches and battling at the upper end of the table.

My memory is not astonishingly short. Whelan's successive relegation seasons were, by definition, unsuccessful but I would say the standard of football was far better and more entertaining (for those who can see beyond a result) than much of what was served up at Roots Hall last season. The only season that was up there with Sturrock's dross was probably the one when Mark Beard was our player of the year and Barry Conlon our top scorer with 7, those two facts saying all you need to know about that particular season.