The Foran issue - my take.

[fbm]

Firstly, I don't know what he has done in the past and frankly I don't care. It's nothing to do with me.

But whatever it is, we have to bear in mind that the people paying his wages for whatever reason are happy to not include him in the matchday plans.

That was clear from day 1 of this season when he wasn't included in the team photo.

So, here is purely my take on why things are as they are for Foran. This reads almost like a FAQ on him, which is what it bloody well feels like!

Why don't we sell him? We're trying but I believe that any interested clubs aren't prepared to match what we're paying him and he is apparently happy to collect his wages from us and sit around doing nowt.

Why is he playing in the reserves then? So that he can be in the shop window. Someone might take him on loan.

But surely he should be playing in the first team? You'd certainly think so but the reason he has been frozen out is pure conjecture. No-one outside the club actually knows what is really going on but it is clear he won't be pulling on a first team shirt again. Whether this is a decision made by Tilly, Brush, Uncle Ron, the other players or even Foran himself is anyone's guess. But it's happening.

If we are not playing him why not cancel his contract and get him off the wage bill? Because it's not that simple. Whatever he has done obviously doesn't qualify as gross professional misconduct or we would have sacked him. So, if we cancel his contract we have to pay him off to the end of the season. I don't know how much he is on but let's say for the sake of argument it's £2500 per week. If we sack him we have to pay him £2500 times the number of weeks left on his contract, currently about 20. That's £50,000 down the drain. If we retain him, then someone may take him on loan. Even if, say, Darlington take him and only pay half his wages for a month that still saves the club £5,000. Anybody taking him for any length of time represents a saving for the club over what we would have to pay if we got rid now. My guess is that once the loan window closes, if he has not been fixed up elsewhere then his contract will be cancelled and he will be paid off.

Why won't Tilly bury the hatchet and play him? Maybe it's not Tilly's hatchet to bury. We don't know. But if Tilly has made a decision then he has to stand by that decision and his strength of character may be a lot stronger than any of us realise. Tilly has said he only wants players who want to play for this club. Maybe Foran doesn't.



There may be a very good reason why the club can't comment on the Foran issue but I wish to hell they would if only to stop the barrage of "Where's Foran?" threads that seem to appear daily.

 

[A Century United]

Very good analysis, fbm. Perhaps all these clowns who think Foran is the New Messiah will actually think about the situation instead of having tantrums.

 

[CC51DAS]

Notwithstanding my attempt at humour on the other thread , there has to be a chance that he may be about to be moved on for a small fee and we would not want to take the risk of him getting injured.

 

[fbm]

Notwithstanding my attempt at humour on the other thread , there has to be a chance that he may be about to be moved on for a small fee and we would not want to take the risk of him getting injured.

Doubt it mate... no one is going to match his wages let alone pay money for him and Foran just wants to collect his dosh. He doesn't have to take a cut and at his age I guess is seeing the money as more important than the chance to play league football.

 

[Sean 2]

"But if Tilly has made a decision then he has to stand by that decision and his strength of character may be a lot stronger than any of us realise"

Mate,you aren't far wrong there.I've never seen anyone get back on side with Tilly.Fall out of line and fall out with the manager from what i've seen.
Tilson certainly ain't no soft touch as those who have played against him will tell!

 

[fbm]

"But if Tilly has made a decision then he has to stand by that decision and his strength of character may be a lot stronger than any of us realise"

Mate,you aren't far wrong there.I've never seen anyone get back on side with Tilly.Fall out of line and fall out with the manager from what i've seen.
Tilson certainly ain't no soft touch as those who have played against him will tell!

Don't know him personally but if that is the case then it's actually a very admirable quality.

 

[pringlejon]

surely we would be willing for him to move and we make up his wages to the end of his contract with us. i.e. say he moves to acrington stanley or whoever wants him, and they offer him £137.50 a week, surely if it made him move we coud offer to top his wages up to say £2500 or whatever he is on. with 20 weeks of contract left we would be saving £2750. and we get the allegedly bad influence out.

 

[Pubey]

surely we would be willing for him to move and we make up his wages to the end of his contract with us. i.e. say he moves to acrington stanley or whoever wants him, and they offer him £137.50 a week, surely if it made him move we coud offer to top his wages up to say £2500 or whatever he is on. with 20 weeks of contract left we would be saving £2750. and we get the allegedly bad influence out.

good point. I think leeds had a similar arrangement when we signed Ricketts.

 

[fbm]

surely we would be willing for him to move and we make up his wages to the end of his contract with us. i.e. say he moves to acrington stanley or whoever wants him, and they offer him £137.50 a week, surely if it made him move we coud offer to top his wages up to say £2500 or whatever he is on. with 20 weeks of contract left we would be saving £2750. and we get the allegedly bad influence out.

I'm sure we would.

But Foran has to agree to go. Perhaps the club have tried their level best to move him on and perhaps he has refused, saying something like he'll not leave until his contract expires. Perhaps he has made it clear to Tilly that he's happy to bleed the club dry. Perhaps he's even incensed the other players with his attitude so that they don't even want him in the squad.

Who knows?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Hyperthetical question (at least hyperthetical at the moment!!)


So if we were to get relegated, and say maybe if we had played Foran (as a striker rather than on the wing) he might have scored the goals that kept us up, will people still be praising Tilly and saying 'well done for sticking to your guns and not playing Foran'?

 

[fbm]

Hyperthetical question (at least hyperthetical at the moment!!)


So if we were to get relegated, and say maybe if we had played Foran (as a striker rather than on the wing) he might have scored the goals that kept us up, will people still be praising Tilly and saying 'well done for sticking to your guns and not playing Foran'?

That's a bit of a daft hypotheses to be honest. Far too many if's. One player doesn't get a club relegated.

When all our strikers were fit Foran wasn't even mentioned. Why does everyone think he can now suddenly do a Roy of the Rovers job that our other 6 strikers have failed to do so far?

Further, bearing in mind the events of the last year, why does anyone think Foran is going to even give a hoot and perform to anywhere near his best?

To start banging goals as a L1 striker in you have to have desire and passion. He possesses neither - well, not for this club anyway.

IF Foran were to play, what I think is far more likely to happen is that he'd just occupy a place in the team and go through the motions on the pitch, a bit like Leon Clarke at Doncaster last season. I really can't see him giving a stuff about a club he's going to leave this summer. He isn't going to want to fight for a new contract, he just wants to go.

My guess - and it is only a guess - is that Foran has told Tilly that he has no intention of playing for him again. So he won't be.

And, for the record, I am a Foran fan by the way and would have liked to have seen more of him, especially up front. But it ain't gonna happen.

I think that certain people, as fans only, have to realise that actually they DON'T know best.

 

[Ulysses]

Maybe Ron should come out and say something as Tilly nor Foran is willing to. I think the club owes it the fans to at least give us an update.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

That's a bit of a daft hypotheses to be honest. Far too many if's. One player doesn't get a club relegated.

When all our strikers were fit Foran wasn't even mentioned. Why does everyone think he can now suddenly do a Roy of the Rovers job that our other 6 strikers have failed to do so far?

Further, bearing in mind the events of the last year, why does anyone think Foran is going to even give a hoot and perform to anywhere near his best?

To start banging goals as a L1 striker in you have to have desire and passion. He possesses neither - well, not for this club anyway.

IF Foran were to play, what I think is far more likely to happen is that he'd just occupy a place in the team and go through the motions on the pitch, a bit like Leon Clarke at Doncaster last season. I really can't see him giving a stuff about a club he's going to leave this summer. He isn't going to want to fight for a new contract, he just wants to go.

My guess - and it is only a guess - is that Foran has told Tilly that he has no intention of playing for him again. So he won't be.

And, for the record, I am a Foran fan by the way and would have liked to have seen more of him, especially up front. But it ain't gonna happen.

I think that certain people, as fans only, have to realise that actually they DON'T know best.

That is your take on it all, doesn't mean it is correct! Maybe you don't know best either!!

 

[fbm]

That is your take on it all, doesn't mean it is correct! Maybe you don't know best either!!

No, you're right - it is only my opinion. And no, of course I don't know best. But as it is Tilly and Brush's jobs on the line, I'm content that bearing in mind that they know EXACTLY what's gone on that they do know best, which was what I was trying to illustrate.

 

[shrimperjon]

Hi Guys

As previously metioned i emailed the club about this issue on Monday, requesting answers. Today i received this response. It appears that Ron wants him playing, but Tilly doesnt. Now if i was Ron i would be insisiting the guy at least was considered, especially when you look at the current squad and its lack of numbers and ability.......4 subs at Leeds, say no more!!

Jonathan

Thank you for your email dated 23rd January addressed to myself and Steve Tilson. I only received a copy today and therefore apologise for the slight delay in responding.

I, too, would like to see Richie Foran featuring in the First Team squad. Once the August window closed and Richie remained a Southend player he was always available for selection – injuries apart.

Richie did recover from his knee operation and as you are aware did have a short, and I think successful, loan spell at Darlington but has since returned to the fold. As Richie was bought for £150,000 in the January window when the Club was in the championship he continues to be one of the Club’s highest paid players. It is therefore of no benefit to see him sit on the sidelines but equally if he does not feature in the Manager’s plans that is where he will remain until his contract expires in the summer.

I am sure you do not really think that we want ANY player sitting on the sidelines if they are never going to receive the Manager’s favour. I can assure you if that were the case I would want them off the wage bill immediately. Richie Foran is a case in point but unfortunately despite enquiries we have made of other Clubs there are no takers.

I am not sure if this necessarily answers the points in your email but at least gives you some background.

I am happy to answer any further questions you may have.

Regards

​

Ronald Martin

​

Chairman
Southend United Football Club
Roots Hall Stadium
Victoria Avenue
Southend-on-Sea
Essex
SS2 6NQ

Tel​

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Personal issue between Tilly and Foran then!!

 

[palexander]

...

I am sure you do not really think that we want ANY player sitting on the sidelines if they are never going to receive the Manager’s favour. I can assure you if that were the case I would want them off the wage bill immediately. Richie Foran is a case in point but unfortunately despite enquiries we have made of other Clubs there are no takers.

Thanks for posting that.

Think the bold part sums it up - they want shot of him but cannot find a taker and he is obviously on too much money to pay off.

Horrible situation as I'm sure it would be best if he stayed away from the club/training/reserves etc, but then if he isn't fit then there is even less chance anyone would take him on.

What a waste of money.

 

[fbm]

Hi Guys

As previously metioned i emailed the club about this issue on Monday, requesting answers. Today i received this response. It appears that Ron wants him playing, but Tilly doesnt. Now if i was Ron i would be insisiting the guy at least was considered, especially when you look at the current squad and its lack of numbers and ability.......4 subs at Leeds, say no more!!

Jonathan

Thank you for your email dated 23rd January addressed to myself and Steve Tilson. I only received a copy today and therefore apologise for the slight delay in responding.

I, too, would like to see Richie Foran featuring in the First Team squad. Once the August window closed and Richie remained a Southend player he was always available for selection – injuries apart.

Richie did recover from his knee operation and as you are aware did have a short, and I think successful, loan spell at Darlington but has since returned to the fold. As Richie was bought for £150,000 in the January window when the Club was in the championship he continues to be one of the Club’s highest paid players. It is therefore of no benefit to see him sit on the sidelines but equally if he does not feature in the Manager’s plans that is where he will remain until his contract expires in the summer.

I am sure you do not really think that we want ANY player sitting on the sidelines if they are never going to receive the Manager’s favour. I can assure you if that were the case I would want them off the wage bill immediately. Richie Foran is a case in point but unfortunately despite enquiries we have made of other Clubs there are no takers.

I am not sure if this necessarily answers the points in your email but at least gives you some background.

I am happy to answer any further questions you may have.

Regards

​

Ronald Martin

​

Chairman
Southend United Football Club
Roots Hall Stadium
Victoria Avenue
Southend-on-Sea
Essex
SS2 6NQ

Tel​

Cheers for that mate. Green for you.

However we really don't want Ron intervening in team selection. If Tilly succeeds or fails he has to do it by his decisions and his only.

 

[Ulysses]

I think in other industry Mr Foran might have grounds for contructive dismissal but i get the feeling he isn't that bothered about playing either.

 

[shrimperjon]

Agree, that Tilson is soley responsible, but this is a crazy situation. My only dissapointment is that it still doesnt really clear up WHY there is the problem.

BUT, to have only 4 (3 if you include Barney) subs at an away game in Leeds is crazy. Tilson needs to smell the coffee. We needs players and bodies. Please Tilson see common sense and get the guy playing.