Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Yes I saw the statement live and most of the subsequent debate too.It was (as you imply)a good day for Parliament
-
Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.
Existing Users:.
Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.
New Users:
Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.
Fans from other clubs
We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.
Assistance Required
For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.
The Truth ( (Hillsborough)
- Status
Yes I saw the statement live and most of the subsequent debate too.It was (as you imply)a good day for Parliament
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Asking for someone's evidence that there were ticketless fans is not the same as denying that there were any ticketless fans there.
Surely you can see that?
(My mistake was not to include the words from the report: "extreme levels of ticketless fans." Mea Culpa.
steveo
mine to stay the same please
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 7,545
And me, if thats any help.
Napster
No ⭐
:dim::dim:
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Finally.
I've been to enough big games in my time to know that there are always some people hanging around on the off chance of getting a ticket.I assume the same is true for you and any other fan.
Ailsa Road Shrimper
Coach
My personal opinion on this is Hillsborough was always a disaster waiting to happen in that era, the context of which was based on a toxic combination of unsafe stadiums, heavy handed policing and football hooliganism.
In the 1980’s health and safety initiatives were minimal, therefore large scale death tolls were common in a decade that was littered with plane crashes, train crashes, terrible fires such as Bradford and Kings Cross plus of course the Hillsborough disaster. Nobody intended for these accidents to happen, they are all symptoms of an era whereby safety of the public was not placed at the level of importance it is now. Thankfully lessons have been learned from all these tragedies therefore we do not experience events like these anymore.
Personally, it is unsurprising to hear police statements and accounts from that period were falsified. This was an era without the level of scrutiny public bodies face today, corruption in police forces was probably commonplace in those days and very easy to get away with. It is widely acknowledged that the police were largely to blame for the events at Hillsborough and nobody denies that, however there were mitigating factors that contributed to the disaster – this stadium as with many others at the time was unsafe, the police and emergency services simply didn’t have the resources that they have now plus the problems of hooliganism in the 1980’s were massive and difficult to control. Only a few years earlier Liverpool’s fans were involved in the shameful events at Heysel, plus their fans were notorious for attempting to gain entry without tickets for big matches and cup finals – therefore the ‘holier than thou’ image being portrayed now for the behaviour of their fans that day is difficult to fully believe.
Lessons have been learned from Hillsborough which means a similar disaster is unlikely to ever happen again at a football ground - its legacy is far safer stadiums, vastly improved stewarding and policing, plus thankfully the behaviour of football fans is far better than it was in the 1980’s.
In the 1980’s health and safety initiatives were minimal, therefore large scale death tolls were common in a decade that was littered with plane crashes, train crashes, terrible fires such as Bradford and Kings Cross plus of course the Hillsborough disaster. Nobody intended for these accidents to happen, they are all symptoms of an era whereby safety of the public was not placed at the level of importance it is now. Thankfully lessons have been learned from all these tragedies therefore we do not experience events like these anymore.
Personally, it is unsurprising to hear police statements and accounts from that period were falsified. This was an era without the level of scrutiny public bodies face today, corruption in police forces was probably commonplace in those days and very easy to get away with. It is widely acknowledged that the police were largely to blame for the events at Hillsborough and nobody denies that, however there were mitigating factors that contributed to the disaster – this stadium as with many others at the time was unsafe, the police and emergency services simply didn’t have the resources that they have now plus the problems of hooliganism in the 1980’s were massive and difficult to control. Only a few years earlier Liverpool’s fans were involved in the shameful events at Heysel, plus their fans were notorious for attempting to gain entry without tickets for big matches and cup finals – therefore the ‘holier than thou’ image being portrayed now for the behaviour of their fans that day is difficult to fully believe.
Lessons have been learned from Hillsborough which means a similar disaster is unlikely to ever happen again at a football ground - its legacy is far safer stadiums, vastly improved stewarding and policing, plus thankfully the behaviour of football fans is far better than it was in the 1980’s.
Rusty Shackleford
Banned
Did the police kill all those poor ****ers at Heysel too? I'd hate to blame anything on a load of angelic ****ed up scousers.
Not sure if this comment is to rile people that are informed on this tragedy or being a late night post maybe you have consumed too much alcohol yourself.
Just in case it is the final possibility that you are just ill informed I will enlighten a bit as I was at Heysel and both read a lot about and spoken to few people that were at Hillsborough that fateful day.
Firstly as you should now be aware even if only last Wednesday the Hillsborough disaster had nothing to do with drunken fan’s. This was the cover up story generated by the Police and published by the Sun that some people have still not understood was a lie. Sadly the fact that people like you still think this is correct 23 years latter despite the fact the Prime Minster has said it was a lie proves that mud sticks.
I will not post much about Heysel as I have done so in the past on this board but in my opinion the comparisons between the two disasters are often made becauce involved England’s most successful club at the time. Other than that both disasters had a very poor choice of ground was made as neither was fit for purpose and also both were policed awfully which contributed to the sad loss of lives’.
With the Heysel disaster although there were other factors ultimately those that died did so because of football violence and those responsible were punished.
With it was Hillsborough the loss off life was ultimately the responsibility of the Police and the Emergency services who made a series of errors both before during and afterwards and as yet have still not been punished.
Totally different incident.
Might as well blame the titanic on them as well.
Napster
No ⭐
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Thought it sailed from Belfast(via Southampton)?:smiles:
Hence I mentioned it :smile:
Rusty Shackleford
Banned
So you believe any report if it fits your agenda? Most people of my political mindset want to believe the Warren Commission that blames a lone commie nut for the assassination of JFK, but I'm capable of looking beyond the end of my nose, and seeing that 'the man on the Clapham omnibus' wouldn't accept that. I don't accept that a group of people who had already proven that they could cause wholesale loss of life couldn't contribute in some way to it happening again. I'm not trying to rile anyone up (except maybe Barnaby who is on a perpetual hair trigger of liberal indignation), and I'm living on the west coast of the USA, so it wasn't late for me. It was the middle of the afternoon, and unlike some buffoons, I can't afford to be drunk at work. I stand by my comments, and nothing on this thread or in that report has changed my mind in the slightest.
MK Shrimper
Striker
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 52,643
But the previous report that blamed the supporters does fit your agenda? It's like trying to claim the world is flat despite the mass of evidence to the contrary - not everything is a bizarre liberal conspiracy to undermine the free world.
Rusty Shackleford
Banned
Not everything - just most things.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
The independent Hillsborough report has completely exonerated any of the 96 people who died, from any responsibility whatsoever, for their own deaths.That's by far the most important thing to take on board from the publication of last week's report.
You're presumably implying,(certainly not stating directly),that some ticketless and drunken Liverpool fans deliberately or not, somehow caused the 96 deaths.That's really just a watered down version of the Sun's infamous "The Truth" headline and article.
Btw,anyone who's read Mark Lane's excellent "Rush to Judgement"(which I did in the 6th form at WHS back in 1969/70) is fully aware that there was a conspiracy, which was responsible not only for JFK's assasination but also the subsequent cover up.
Finally, and just so you get this quite clear, I'm not a liberal,I'm a socialist.I'm sure that distinction still means something, even on the brain-dead west coast of the good old US of A.:smiles:
Last edited:
OldBlueLady
Junior Blues Coordinator⭐⭐
Absolutely agree 100% with that. Now, can this respectfully be put to bed?
TrueBlue
SJP Taxi & Private Hire ⭐️
I am going to walk in front of a bus later.....
Buses fault by the way
Buses fault by the way
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
The bus wouldn't stand a chance.
- Status
ShrimperZone Sponsors
ShrimperZone - Player Sponsorship
Southend United Away Travel
All At Sea Fanzine
