"There's no point in having a new stadium if you don't have a good team"

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's been proven ever since Tilly took over that we are invariably much better after Xmas than before. Also factor in M'voto coming back, and us finally (hopefully) having a settled back 4, and we'll only be going one way in the table, and it's not down....

I'm not quite sure how you can prove that we'll improve after Xmas on the basis of the last two season's results.
At any rate that still doesn't address the issue of our like -for -like midfield,the lack of a creative midfield player or the possibility that Barney,Macca and Francis might still be on their way out of the club later this month.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I guess you could call them visionaries, but that seems like one hell of a long term investment to me :)

Sorry typo.It is of course tipped for 2011 asthe EUFA Final venue.:)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That view is consistent with your scepticism about need for new stadium so I can see where you are coming from.
It's those who don't want a new stadium yet hit the panic button whenever we slip into the bottom half of league one and demand money be thrown around in the transfer market that I don't understand.
It's as though the prospect of playing in league two is something they think Southend should never again have to contemplate.

Thank you for a balanced response to my concerns.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Bottom of average CCC attendances :

20 Plymouth Argyle 14792
21 Doncaster Rovers 12825
22 Peterborough 12711
23 Blackpool 9861
24 Scunthorpe United 8921

3 of those are in the bottom 5, and whilst the likes of Blackpool and Doncaster are having good seasons just shows that we would never establish ourselves at that level if we don't move.

They are the highest crowds they have had this season not the average crowds. The current average crowds for those teams are:-

Plymouth 10524
Doncaster 10405
Peterborough 9139
Blackpool 8224
Scunthorpe 6724

 

[Benfleet Blue]

The new stadium will help, but wont grantee future success.

The new stadium, will attract better players because of the better facilities. The new stadium will generate additional revenue making it possible for us to make money 24/7 via hotels, casinos, shops, conference facilities, the potential to stage concerts etc etc.
Its obvious money is tied up with the new stadium, and to release that to Tilson to sign new players would be madness. The old break even figure was 8,000, now its Championship football in a new stadium. I don't think we will be in the Championship when FF rolls around, but we will be able to assemble a promotion winning side.

As a squad, we are only a few players off being a play-off side, just look at the introduction of Dervite and Robsinon last season, and Barnard and Mulgrew (plus others) the season before.

I wish I shared your optimism.

It has yet to be explained how SUFC will benefit from increased income streams. We will only be tenants in the new stadium and currently cannot afford the rent at Roots Hall, let alone what will be possibly a much higher rent at the new stadium.

If we are only tenants therefore, it has yet to be explained what rights SUFC will have to income streams and what sources these will come from.

I appreciate your optimism but cannot forsee drastic increases in gates unless, of course, we achieve promotion, and with the gates as they are look at the problems we currently have, and that's with rent at RH supposedly being written off.

 

[Jam_Man]

I appreciate your optimism but cannot forsee drastic increases in gates unless, of course, we achieve promotion, and with the gates as they are look at the problems we currently have, and that's with rent at RH supposedly being written off.

I dont forsee massive increases either, but who knows, we could be averaging 10-12,000 which isn't massive, but still a decent increase.

10 years ago our crowds were half what they were now so theres some reason to be optimisitic.

 

[GBJ]

It's as though the prospect of playing in league two is something they think Southend should never again have to contemplate.

But if RM has said we need regular CCC football in the new ground, JUST to keep going, then dropping into L2 could be catastrophic.

Also, the idea of us already being in the CCC by the time FF rolls around is probably unlikely, possible, but unlikely and there's no guarentee we'll be in L1. We all know how hard it is/was to get out of league 2, but also how long could we effectively stay in that League untill it really hurts us? Put another way, if RM is sure we need CCC football just to break even, then surely a long stint in L2, even L1 could be detrimental, am i right?

Hence why investment on the team is surely a must, to make sure we don't drop down another division, for THAT reason?

As i've been saying, it's a massive gamble RM is taking atm. Tilly has to rely on loan/freebies/cheap players. If Tilly can pull it off, year after year then the gamble pays off. But if Tilly can't, then what? The last couple of seasons we've been lucky to have/bring in some quality players. This season, we haven't though and if not for Barnard this season, we'd be right in the mix of relegation

 

[Rob Noxious]

As i've been saying, it's a massive gamble RM is taking atm. Tilly has to rely on loan/freebies/cheap players. If Tilly can pull it off, year after year then the gamble pays off. But if Tilly can't, then what? The last couple of seasons we've been lucky to have/bring in some quality players. This season, we haven't though and if not for Barnard this season, we'd be right in the mix of relegation

Agreed. The 'better' part of the next two weeks is likely to determine just how unfulfilling a finale there is likely to be to our season. If we relinquish Barney in the window, there is an increased possibility that I'll be making the relatively short journey to Plainmoor for one of our away games next season. I'd prefer to be going to Home Park instead as Plymouth look like they're heading to L1.

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

But if RM has said we need regular CCC football in the new ground, JUST to keep going, then dropping into L2 could be catastrophic.

Also, the idea of us already being in the CCC by the time FF rolls around is probably unlikely, possible, but unlikely and there's no guarentee we'll be in L1. We all know how hard it is/was to get out of league 2, but also how long could we effectively stay in that League untill it really hurts us? Put another way, if RM is sure we need CCC football just to break even, then surely a long stint in L2, even L1 could be detrimental, am i right?

Hence why investment on the team is surely a must, to make sure we don't drop down another division, for THAT reason?

As i've been saying, it's a massive gamble RM is taking atm. Tilly has to rely on loan/freebies/cheap players. If Tilly can pull it off, year after year then the gamble pays off. But if Tilly can't, then what? The last couple of seasons we've been lucky to have/bring in some quality players. This season, we haven't though and if not for Barnard this season, we'd be right in the mix of relegation

But he said that when we had the likes of Revell and Betsy who where both on huge wages for this division, and a Club our size. They have been let go, and with the possibility of Freedman leaving when his contract expires in the summer, who knows we may be looking at 8/9K in League One to break even again.

 

[GBJ]

But he said that when we had the likes of Revell and Betsy who where both on huge wages for this division, and a Club our size. They have been let go, and with the possibility of Freedman leaving when his contract expires in the summer, who knows we may be looking at 8/9K in League One to break even again.

It's not unfeasible, but it's highly inpractical. Using that theory, we could release/sell all our top earners and replace them with cheapies/loanees and rely on a gate of 5k.

In theory we still have to replace those players don't we? So even if we brought in players on cheap wages, it won't affect it by that much i wouldn't have thought. *(see added section below)

Again it's all swings and roundabouts really.

To me Ron is the guy in a Casino playing roulette. He's won a few times, but wants to spin again and again, and eventually his luck will run out and it'll all come crashing down

EDIT: Of course, i also reckon, by "we need CCC football" RM is obviously referring to;

1) the size of the away crowd. What is the average attendence for away fans in CCC? 1500? 2000? Whereas in L1 and 2 it's what? 300? 400?

2) the teams we're playing. At L2 level what would our attendance be for a tuesday night game against Bury? 6500 at a push? 4000? whereas obviously against a Newcastle etc it'll be 9-10k

 

[united we stand]

But he said that when we had the likes of Revell and Betsy who where both on huge wages for this division, and a Club our size. They have been let go, and with the possibility of Freedman leaving when his contract expires in the summer, who knows we may be looking at 8/9K in League One to break even again.

Hi Boy Wonder

I hear what you are saying but I don't think the maths add up. I buy it that it will help , but not to the levesl you are quoting

Assuming 26 home games (inc 3 cup) at £20 a throw is £520,000 a season per 1000 supporters. Even if you allowed for concessions and assumed that they don't buy anything then 26 home games *£15.00 (guess inc concessions) is £390,000

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's not unfeasible, but it's highly inpractical. Using that theory, we could release/sell all our top earners and replace them with cheapies/loanees and rely on a gate of 5k.

In theory we still have to replace those players don't we? So even if we brought in players on cheap wages, it won't affect it by that much i wouldn't have thought. *(see added section below)

Again it's all swings and roundabouts really.

To me Ron is the guy in a Casino playing roulette. He's won a few times, but wants to spin again and again, and eventually his luck will run out and it'll all come crashing down

EDIT: Of course, i also reckon, by "we need CCC football" RM is obviously referring to;

1) the size of the away crowd. What is the average attendence for away fans in CCC? 1500? 2000? Whereas in L1 and 2 it's what? 300? 400?

2) the teams we're playing. At L2 level what would our attendance be for a tuesday night game against Bury? 6500 at a push? 4000? whereas obviously against a Newcastle etc it'll be 9-10k

For me, it is you who demands new signings that is in the casino going all in on roulette.

If you splash out on new signings, you might get a winner, but your winnings will dwindle away in the long run because the house has the edge. Build a new home, become the house where the odds favour you.

 

[GBJ]

For me, it is you who demands new signings that is in the casino going all in on roulette.

If you splash out on new signings, you might get a winner, but your winnings will dwindle away in the long run because the house has the edge. Build a new home, become the house where the odds favour you.

Firstly, i'm not advocating we splash out 100k, 200k etc on a new player, so no i'm not "going all-in". Of course i also understand that we are unable to spend vast quantities of money. What i'm saying is we need some new bodies of a decent calibre that we can call our own, instead of relying on Tilly to perform miracles in the loan market season after season. I can't understand why that is so hard to grasp? Can't you see that eventually we'll come unstuck? If it wasn't for Barny's goals, we'd be facing relegation right now. What happens next season when we don't have a Lee Barnard to score our goals? It's all well and good building your new house, but it's the massive risks being taken along the way that could see us get screwed over.

Don't forget one major fact, RM wants the new stadium, come hell or high water. He's not a football fan, once the stadium is done and he's made his bit, he'll prob ride off into the sunset. Meanwhile, we could be in a nice shiny new stadium, watching **** players in poxy L2.

Football fans are very fickle, we're all guilty of it at times.

 

[Jam_Man]

Firstly, i'm not advocating we splash out 100k, 200k etc on a new player, so no i'm not "going all-in". Of course i also understand that we are unable to spend vast quantities of money. What i'm saying is we need some new bodies of a decent calibre that we can call our own, instead of relying on Tilly to perform miracles in the loan market season after season. I can't understand why that is so hard to grasp? Can't you see that eventually we'll come unstuck? If it wasn't for Barny's goals, we'd be facing relegation right now. What happens next season when we don't have a Lee Barnard to score our goals? It's all well and good building your new house, but it's the massive risks being taken along the way that could see us get screwed over.

Don't forget one major fact, RM wants the new stadium, come hell or high water. He's not a football fan, once the stadium is done and he's made his bit, he'll prob ride off into the sunset. Meanwhile, we could be in a nice shiny new stadium, watching **** players in poxy L2.

Football fans are very fickle, we're all guilty of it at times.

If we dont get a new stadium we could still be in League Two watching **** players.

At least we will have comfier seats and leg room if we did it in the new stadium :)

 

[undercovershrimper]

"There's no point in having a new stadium if you don't have a good team"

Well if we dont get a new stadium we wont have a team its that simple

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

It's not unfeasible, but it's highly inpractical. Using that theory, we could release/sell all our top earners and replace them with cheapies/loanees and rely on a gate of 5k.

In theory we still have to replace those players don't we? So even if we brought in players on cheap wages, it won't affect it by that much i wouldn't have thought. *(see added section below)

Again it's all swings and roundabouts really.

To me Ron is the guy in a Casino playing roulette. He's won a few times, but wants to spin again and again, and eventually his luck will run out and it'll all come crashing down

EDIT: Of course, i also reckon, by "we need CCC football" RM is obviously referring to;

1) the size of the away crowd. What is the average attendence for away fans in CCC? 1500? 2000? Whereas in L1 and 2 it's what? 300? 400?

2) the teams we're playing. At L2 level what would our attendance be for a tuesday night game against Bury? 6500 at a push? 4000? whereas obviously against a Newcastle etc it'll be 9-10k

It was just a suggestion, because nobody knows the figures on here.

Originally it was an average gate of 8,000 would break even for us, then we got promoted to the Championship and all the costs rocketted, including wages. We then dropped out of the division, and has suffered a massive loss mainly due to the TV revenue that we are missing out on, and the Championship wage bill we was paying in League One.

Because of our costs rocketted, we need to either be back in the Championship in a new stadium, or we have to cut back on all areas. Whether that means Revell, Betsy, Freedman etc going and being replaced from up and coming youngsters who knows.

The way I see it is we need the new stadium to simply survive. Get the new stadium, and the additional revenue streams and we can begin to assemble a new squad of better quality players. I imagine, once the construction is under way, Tilson will see bigger transfer and wage budgets to attempt to get Championship football for the new stadium.

 

[GBJ]

I imagine, once the construction is under way, Tilson will see bigger transfer and wage budgets to attempt to get Championship football for the new stadium.

This is one thing i've never really understood. Why is it Tilly will have more funds available?

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

This is one thing i've never really understood. Why is it Tilly will have more funds available?

Because funding will already be in place for the new stadium, via banks etc. Additional money can then work its way down to Tilson to spend.

 

[GBJ]

Because funding will already be in place for the new stadium, via banks etc. Additional money can then work its way down to Tilson to spend.

But where are we getting this additional money from? And why can't it be used now?

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

But where are we getting this additional money from? And why can't it be used now?

Because its all tied up with the new stadium, buying the relevant land around Roots Hall etc.

The additional money will come from the sainsbury deal I'm lead to believe.