Time for RM to show he means it - actions speak louder than words !

[grassroots]

The only flaw in your argument is you've no evidence to support this assumption whatsoever. Never did Delancey or Ron speak of this modest little ground. The plans are for a 22,000 stadium passed a few years ago.
Blimey he gets criticsied for too big a ground and now he was virtually blown along by circumstance into building a bigger ground than intended. If this all turns out OK and we get the new ground I bet there will be fans sitting there at the first game Discussing it's too big, too small, too much concrete, too much steel, not enough paint, no onions in the burgers, no chips, grass is too long, wish we were back at Roots Hall, what's the point, I told you it'd never be built and then rushing on to Shrimpermoan to complain.

'Flaws', 'argument' 'no evidence' etc, blimey its not a court case........ as I said it is just the way I saw it at the time.......and still do.

 

[Jam_Man]

The way I see it is we were a club fighting for survival in the football league, we are now an established League One side with a new ground still in progress.

We are having a bad time financially this past year and the football side of the club has suffered.

However if the stadium is completed the couple of years of hardship will be more than worth it in the end and people need to look at the bigger picture.

Staying at Roots Hall means stagnating indefinitely, the same people complaining the team arent doing well enough are also complaining about the hardships caused by the new stadium. Without the new stadium investment in the team isnt possible and we would lose money anyway.

The new stadium gives no guarantees but I could count on one hand the amount of people who objected to it when it was agreed and so we need to just weather the storm and hope to reap the benefits in the long term...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You can't give an answer about something which is in the future... you can only give your hopes as to what will happen.

Yes, but you can also give your predictions based on current evidence.That's a hypothesis, btw.
My forecast is that our financial problems will continue in 2010 and beyond.In the current economic climate it will be very difficult if not impossible for FF to be built.
Looking into my crystal ball I forsee further problems with HMRC,resulting in yet another High Court appearance etc,etc :darkcloud:

My hopes btw are that none of this happens.:support:

 

[Shrimper93]

''no onions in the burgers''

This is a very serious issue for some of us on here, please don't mock the lack of onions.:whistling:

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

You can't give an answer about something which is in the future... you can only give your hopes as to what will happen.

Yes, but you can also give your predictions based on current evidence.That's a hypothesis, btw.
My forecast is that our financial problems will continue in 2010 and beyond.In the current economic climate it will be very difficult if not impossible for FF to be built.
Looking into my crystal ball I forsee further problems with HMRC,resulting in yet another High Court appearance etc,etc :darkcloud:

My hopes btw are that none of this happens.:support:

But, when we paid the £2.1million, wasn't that all outstanding money we owed them, so leaving us debt free with them?

Also, the day it was announced about the winding up petition, HMRC had agreed some new rule changes which makes it easier for Clubs like us to pay back money over a longer period of time.

 

[bilbyboy]

''no onions in the burgers''

This is a very serious issue for some of us on here, please don't mock the lack of onions.:whistling:

does no one else know just how bad those burgers taste without onions? Now you are trying to tell us that even if we do get the big shiny new stadium then we still won't get onions? Stuff the new stadium then, may as well stay at the Hall and have pizza's from the corner shop, ooops sorry Ron, you asked us to boycott that didn't you? UTB.

 

[fbm]

You can't give an answer about something which is in the future... you can only give your hopes as to what will happen.

Yes, but you can also give your predictions based on current evidence.That's a hypothesis, btw.
My forecast is that our financial problems will continue in 2010 and beyond.In the current economic climate it will be very difficult if not impossible for FF to be built.
Looking into my crystal ball I forsee further problems with HMRC,resulting in yet another High Court appearance etc,etc :darkcloud:

My hopes btw are that none of this happens.:support:

Yes, we can hypothesise but my point was that people want "answers" to questions that can't be answered yet. And if people guess, it's hardly fair to damn someone based on guesswork.

Anyway, my prediction is that as we've paid off everything to HM R&C we'll owe them nothing for at least 12 months, in fact they'll owe us money as we'll have overpaid, and we won't have any more major financial issues for the rest of this season at least.

And FF will start being built.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

does no one else know just how bad those burgers taste without onions? , may as well stay at the Hall and have pizza's from the corner shop, ooops sorry Ron, you asked us to boycott that didn't you? UTB.

Must rember to sample the corner shop's pizza on my next visit to the Hall.Be difficult to break the habit of a lifetime though and NOT go for a pastie at the Chippy's over the road.;)

 

[CC51DAS]

You can't give an answer about something which is in the future... you can only give your hopes as to what will happen.

RM has stated various things in the past about the FF development but the fact is that for whatever reason, the people don't believe him or want details to the nth degree which, to be fair, if they find his blogs hard to understand they wouldn't have a cat in hells chance of grasping so would be none the wiser.

The reason I am happy to have the faith is this:

1) He has invested millions into this club and has also written off millions, He would not do this unless he thought he would get it back.

2) The future of football finance does not revolve around several thousand people attending a match at a stadium 23 times a season. Other sources of funding have to be found and these will come from various places and so there will not be the need to rely on gate receipts. Sadly these sources will not be popular and may mean that teams will be changing names frequently (a la American football) and shirts will look more like F1 racing cars with adverts all over them. I do not like this, nor do I understand it, but it is probably the way the game will have to go to survive unless we all want to pay about £50 each to watch a game. RM obviously does understand this and I would imagine that these sources of income is how he will recoup the money he has already laid out or written off.

3) He has no long term desire to be a club chairman and is simply getting the club into as good a shape as he can so he can sell it. For him to sell it for decent money the club has to be profitable and in good shape. Therefore for him to benefit we benefit as well. Win-win.

4) Consider the consortium. They were made up, so we understand, of 9 local businessmen and I think 5 were season ticket holders. We were told there was no agenda other than the well being of our club. So, I'm wondering why the non season ticket holders were involved. What's in it for them? One answer - money. My guess is that THEY were the ones with the real wealth and by taking the club over there would be a massive return to be made in the future. They obviously understand it far more than I do and I'm happy that, whilst there was a clamour of interest to rescue our club from potentially imminent administration (and there was) with a sum of money in excess of £150m there must be one nice pot of gold at the end of this particular rainbow.

All in all, the future does look rosy.

Of course, there are various reasons why it may not happen and it all may come crashing down.

But if we didn't have the new stadium in the offing, we may well have already gone into administration by now and would have nothing to look forward to. The future in that case would be bleak.

So, my faith is there - it's not blind faith, it's faith based on the above premises and the prospect that we will have jam tomorrow.

Some good points FBM especially about selling the club.

Call me an old romantic if you like but I feel that the owner of 'the club', even though on paper he has absolute control financially (unless creditors such as HMRC wrest it from his grasp), has an additional moral responsibility to supporters like you and I, many of whom have followed the club for all their lives. So in a way, even though he may have control right now, RM is no more than a temporary custodian of 'the club' (which of course consists of little more than a name thesedays) and it is fair to say that a day will come when RM will move on and pass on the baton to new guardians - evidently at a price.

The need to satisfy these supporters makes running the business more tricky and you are right, the more an owner can relegate the need for income from gate revenue / shirt sales etc, which are all supporter driven, to relative insignificance, the easier the business is to manage.

Unfortunately, we supporters have grown accustomed over the years to having our expectations considered and the owner of 'the club' has not yet reached the stage where he can ignore the need for our support and therefore the loss of income which attaches to an unsucccessful or unattractive side.

I worry that RM's eyes are so firmly fixed on the prize that he may overlook the need to use the window to keep our season alive despite having raised our expectations with his comments suggesting that he will make money available.

He has been able to get hold of funds to pay off the taxman so it would be nice to think he can do the same for squad strengthening purposes.

If he is not willing to do this despite his promises then I would submit that at least morally he has an obligation to us supporters to bring onside others who are apparently willing to invest and in so doing would no doubt receive a decent return for the time, effort and money he has invested over the years and for the risk he has taken.

That indeed sounds like a win win to me.

 

[CC51DAS]

Personally i dont think that the Club has bourne any of the new stadium costs, there was nothing in the last published accounts to indicate this, however the cost has been bourne by one of the backers for the club, who might have used the money for the Football team.
Although I doubt they would, as they money they have is hardly "spare" ,it is an investment in their eyes , using it for the stadium is , to use the well worn phrase "speculating to accumulate" putting into a football team which with its currant infrastructure has a very low potential income ceiling is not, its throwing it away.

The money spent on the stadium is money which would not come anywhere near Roots hall (stadium or Limited) if it was not for the potential to make a return , that potential is the RH/FF development.

Is that like one of those blackberrys ? :)

 

[Benfleet Blue]

Anyway, my prediction is that as we've paid off everything to HM R&C we'll owe them nothing for at least 12 months, in fact they'll owe us money as we'll have overpaid, and we won't have any more major financial issues for the rest of this season at least.

And FF will start being built.

PAYE is a monthly obligation so unless we pay current liabilities on a monthly basis, then in a years time we would be in a similar position owing HMRC and having to arrange a repayment plan.

So yes whilst we may avoid issues this season, if the ongoing liability is not kept up to date we face a similar problem in the future.

 

[grassroots]

PAYE is a monthly obligation so unless we pay current liabilities on a monthly basis, then in a years time we would be in a similar position owing HMRC and having to arrange a repayment plan.

So yes whilst we may avoid issues this season, if the ongoing liability is not kept up to date we face a similar problem in the future.

I know I am probably a bit old fashioned, but in my business, we supply a service - I get paid - I pay my men and each 1/4 pay the HMRC what we owe. If I am late by as much as a day, I get fined until I pay. How on Earth did the Blues (and many other clubs it seems) get away with owing millions? I think the HMRC need to take a good look at themselves and a big stick to the clubs!

 

[CC51DAS]

Well, one week of the window is up and unless I have missed something I haven't heard of any new arrivals.

Obviously, there could be some sensible reasons for this, such as no point in paying the wages of loanees if they aren't likely to play for a couple of weeks, but on the other hand the enforced break creates an opportunity for the new players to 'gel'.

 

[McNasty]

Well, one week of the window is up and unless I have missed something I haven't heard of any new arrivals.

Obviously, there could be some sensible reasons for this,

Geoffrey King will blame the weather, saying it is rubbish and not good enough and so it isn't up to the job, and we will have to get weather in that is better than the weather we have already got.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Geoffrey King will blame the weather, saying it is rubbish and not good enough and so it isn't up to the job, and we will have to get weather in that is better than the weather we have already got.

Whether we like it or not. :unsure:

 

[CC51DAS]

Geoffrey King will blame the weather, saying it is rubbish and not good enough and so it isn't up to the job, and we will have to get weather in that is better than the weather we have already got.

Yes I have a feeling that they have been working on their excuses - perhaps we should have a competition for the lamest excuse - wrong type of transfer window maybe ??

And is it really plausible that RM's 5 year masterplan can be thrown off course by one little guy running a pizza parlour ?

As I have said before I will be delighted to be proved wrong so come on Ron and Geoff lets have some positive news this week, snow or no snow!

 

[Beefy]

I find it staggering that people expect, or even want, the Club to spend money on new players.

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

I find it staggering that people expect, or even want, the Club to spend money on new players.

For me it depends on what happens in terms of players leaving. If Barney moves on, we are left without a consistent goalscorer at the club and, as has often been said, without his goals this season we would have been screwed long ago. Would I want him to spend money to get a replacement? Absolutely!

Would I expect him to spend money on a replacement? Probably not, especially given the fact that proven goalscorers are hard to come by at the best of times and any that happen to be available are going to be way out of our price range. It may turn out that Spencer is the player we need, in which case we will have struck lucky. In any event, any player we do sign is likely to be a similar type - a bit of a gamble and fairly low wages - or a loanee looking to come here and make a bit of a name for himself à la Robinson (successful for us but not really elsewhere) or O'Donovan (didn't exactly set the world alight, by all accounts).

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

All we can do, however, is look at the main fact so far. That being Barney hasn't been transferred. On that basis, and bearing in mind the well known financial difficulties this season, I am not surprised in the slightest that nobody has come in.

The rest is pure speculation and I find it odd that people at the club be criticised for something that hasn't actually happened.

 

[CC51DAS]

I find it staggering that people expect, or even want, the Club to spend money on new players.

The whole point about this thread is that RM has raised expectations with a number of comments over the years. I don't profess to comment for 'people' but certainly my expectations have been raised even though I hold considerable reservation that those expectations can be met.

IF they can't, and it is still an IF, then perhaps its time for RM to employ other possibilities which may help him deliver the dreams (as I mentioned earlier on this thread). To my mind, he seems intent on keeping the stadium project under his sole control and influence and has come very close to 'busting' the club in the process. I would now suggest that our League One survival could now be at risk and if we go down to League 2 with the diminished revenue it is something that RM could live to regret.