To Big a jump up for Tilly.

[Blue Shrimp]

Tilly has done a wonderful job. But I do not think he expected promotion to the Championship so soon. He was not prepared for it and I reckon as a result he had not much time to plan for this season.

He was an inexperienced manager, given a chance by Ron Martin in the bottom level. It worked, he knew the non league and lower leagues well. He could pick out great players who have done very well up to this point.

But he is now in with the big boys. He got to know Francis by working with Peter Taylor. Also, Paynter was obtained late, on Taylor's recommendation.

He took a hugh gamble with Ricketts, which might have worked.

When in Div 1 & 2 most likely he did not study the players in the prem. or championship in very great depth. I am not saying he was lax, but at the time these players were not his main consideration. Being to expensive and unlikely to drop down to our level.

Tilly is not a bad manager, in fact an excellent one. But he is very short of expirence at the 2nd level of English football. If we can stay up this year, Tilly will be a wiser man, we all need to learn. But for S.U.F.C. staying up will be a very close run thing.

With Ron's intended monetary investment in the new ground, will he give Tilly time? Can he risk it?

I reckon, if we are in the bottom three at Christmas, time for Tilly will run out. Ron can't risk it, as to much is now at stake.

With millions in play building a new ground, it's a new ball game, with no place for sentiment. Relegation will mean thousands of less bums on seats, who would buy programmes, drinks etc.

It's a money game, few managers are given time whatever Ron says at present. He will be ruthless, he loves Southend but he is a businessman first.  

 

[Barry's Boss]

Not sure that I agree that Tilly will go, but I do understand your logic. However, I believe that even if we go down he will get (and deserves) the chance to get us back up.

It would be short-sighted to get rid of him so soon - and in any event, who would we get that could be better than Tilly?

We are not exactly a 'sleeping giant', and some things are for sure Tilly is young, learning his trade, held in high regard by his fellow managers (i.e. Manager of the year 2 seasons running - I believe) and loves Southend as much as the supporters do.

 

[Csboy]

I understand what you are saying Blue Shrimp Tilson not only got Southend promoted too soon he built everyone's hopes up by getting us used to winning, now a lot of people find it hard to accept despite us being in a much tougher Division.

Its not impossible that Martin would sack Tilson. Ronnie Moore was sacked at Rotherham after getting them promoted 2 years before going down again and a similar thing happened to Joe Royle at Man City. Football is a very fickle world.

Martin would be crazy to sack Tilson though ,even if we go down. Martin has made some bad choices previously as manager in Little,Webb(judged on just his 3rd spell as manager he was bad), Newman and Wignall. The chances of finding another good manager are slim. He must stick with Tilson no matter what happens this season. The only way he should ever consider sacking Tilson is if we go down and are near the bottom of League 1.

 

[Blue Shrimp]

As I expected, I think your answers are slightly coloured by sentiment and an emotional response in your high regard for Tilly's past success and being Southend through and through.

He might be learning his trade, but will Ron Martin give him time to be educated at his and the club's expense. Remember,Tilson has used years of experience at the lower levels to take us where we are now, it takes time to learn.

See what has happened to the ex. Col. U.  manager now at Hull. Ron might want a man with a proven track record. If he is the get up and go type I think he is, the Chairman will protect his plans.

Just think about it in depth for a few moments. If you were in Ron's position, with a great proposed developement and millions of pounds involved. Would stay with a manager who is an excellent person, with an very good record, but is at the present level finding things very hard and needs time to learn. Or a man with a proven track record, who knows players at this level like the back of his hand.

I think if it was you, your head would rule your heart.

Just lets hope Tilly pulls it round and we start winning games. The clock is ticking. I have as much regard for Tilson as you but behind the scenes Ron, if he is the man I think he is, is already making plans! Unfortunately, he cannot afford not to.

 

[MC BLUES]

Interesting post this.

Do you really think that Tilson will only get until Christmas though to sort things out?

I would have thought his past success must buy him a little more time than that. I think Ron Martin would also want to sense the mood of the fans. If Tilly got the chop at Christmas I honestly believe most fans would strongly disapprove.

 

[Blue Shrimp]

I hope very, very much that Steve Tilson gets it right and the results improve. On another post it's been written - why are we concerned as we didn't expect promotion so soon and were still going ahead with plans for a new ground. Thats right, but as we have promotion it's a different matter. if demoted, we might be like Notts Forest last season or teams failing to get back in the prem.

It's been written, give the players time to adjust, they deserve it. Don't worry, if a player wants to leave he will go, he will not stay out of a sense of loyalty. It's a professional game after all.

If Tilly goes, and the new manager turns things round, you will not be chanting for Tilson. He will be just a wonderful memory. It will be - The King is dead, long live the King.

Remember, the club will hopefully still be playing long after you are gone.

If by Christmas, we are still in real danger, a lot of you will have changed your mind. I say Christmas in view of the January transfer window. It would be mad to prevent a new manager dipping into the transfer market by leaving it to late.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

I said around mid January last season that I feared the worst thing that could happen long-term to SUFC was actually us getting promoted. I felt we needed a successful year but ultimately one where we didn't go up as it would prove to be a step too far for some and alas it appears this is the case. If we had won League One this season for example after a year of consolidation then I would have expected us to be a lot better equipped for the rigours of Championship football next year.

One thing I cannot put my finger on though is how have a mediocre Col U team settled in to it a lot better than we have, is it the "right we'll show you" attitude as Parky left them in the lurch or purely the fact recognised Championship teams underestimate "little old Col U"? OK, we don't really have a lot of household names but you can guarantee the consistent game plan of managers playing us is "Stop Eastwood (& maybe Maher to some extent) and you'll stop Southend!"

In response to this Tilly will only get to Christmas I'd say that has to be utter rubbish. I feel even if we get relegated in bottom place with a record low points total for the 2nd tier, then he'll still be at the helm (if mindless so-called SUFC supporting morons haven't driven him out) come the start of 07/08. Maybe if we're in a similar position to now in League One this time next year then Uncle Ron might be tempted to ring the changes. That is one thing we can't allow to happen if we do go down, as much as we kept the winning habit from getting out of League Two in 2005, I just hope we don't keep the losing habit if we do go down.

Maybe long-term a couple of years in League One might be the answer until hopefully the new stadium is ready & we can compete on a more even arena with some of the bigger teams. Face it, keeping Championship status (as much as we'd all like to) for 3 or 4 years while the ground is built etc was always going to be a mega task. Plus, if we do go back down unless guys like Hammell, Francis etc are on relegation release clauses we should on paper have a fairly strong squad for that level. Who knows, we waited 25 years for another League trophy (playoff final excluded), we might not have to wait so long if we did go down?

 

[callan]

Think we need a sense of perspective here...If and its a big if...Tilly was to go at Christmas because of results then who would we replace him with?

Not only that seems a bit silly to me, if the worse comes to the worse to get rid of a manager who is more than capable of getting us promoted from league 1.

 

[rabbloke]

Tilly is only one part of the equation and must not bear the brunt of the blame. RM sacking him?. Will RM sack himself too?. No of course not. For the previous two seasons we had the smallest squad in the division and somehow cobbled enough results together on a shoestring to get promoted. Again we have one of the smallest squads in our division. To hope for the same luck three seasons running is pushing it. Tilly has only a few options at his disposal to put on the pitch. When it falls short as of late where does he turn?. RM is as much if not more responsible for ensuring that we have sufficient funds for transfers and that our offers are tempting. I know Tilly rolls out the same lame excuses about players not wanting to come and clubs not wanting to release but an awful lot of good players go to other clubs, some not even as glamorous as us. At the end of the day, both Tilly and RM have been doing a stirling job and neither should be casticated for current events on the field. Neither should leave and both should be judged on their achievements to date and the future when the time is right. Now is not the time.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Personally I think we'd be struggling to an extent in whatever division we were in, as its difficult to win games with no midfield.

A strong midfield relieves all that pressure off the defence and gives the new defenders the chance to bed in and learn the system.

Luke Guttridge's form in particular, but also the lack of someone able to play that right midfield role, has been killing us. The loss of Mark Bentley has been widely bemoaned (not least by myself), but if Carl Pettefer was still at the club he'd also be in the starting line-up. That we had a better midfield in the 4th division speaks volumes about our struggles this season. Add in a lack of height in central defence (look how we struggled without Spinner or Sodje at the end of the season) and our problems are clearly more than the step up in class.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Quote[/b] (glasgowsufc @ Oct. 23 2006,10:37)]One thing I cannot put my finger on though is how have a mediocre Col U team settled in to it a lot better than we have, is it the "right we'll show you" attitude as Parky left them in the lurch or purely the fact recognised Championship teams underestimate "little old Col U"?  

You answered your own question.

Col Ewe and Barnsley were established League 1 teams, and as such for most of their squads its only a step up of 1 level.

Most of our squad is having to step up 2 levels.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

To be fair, none of the League 1 team was not good enough to beat us & we has been offer an chance of going up & we took it. If we has missed out on promotion, I would think we would be around 12th in League 1 by now.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Murkey_Mouse @ Oct. 23 2006,14:19)]To be fair, none of the League 1 team was not good enough to beat us & we has been offer an chance of going up & we took it.  If we has missed out on promotion, I would think we would be around 12th in League 1 by now.

Rubbish

 

[leeblue]

Sacking tilly not the answer, we have seen managers come and go over the years, he loves the club, actually gives a s**t what happens, come the transfer window a coupl of good signings could turn it all round, in fact can not even take suggestions of him going seriously, and lets say we did go down, whats to say we wouldnt go straight back up thus entering the new stadium on a high (again), but i still believe we will stay up.

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Oct. 23 2006,11:12)]Luke Guttridge's form in particular, but also the lack of someone able to play that right midfield role, has been killing us. The loss of Mark Bentley has been widely bemoaned (not least by myself), but if Carl Pettefer was still at the club he'd also be in the starting line-up. That we had a better midfield in the 4th division speaks volumes about our struggles this season.

I agree our midfield needs to be better but your comment that our midfield was better in the 4th division doesnt take into account they played against lower standard players.

If Guttridge is looking pooe at this level, then Petts and Bentley would have done so as well.

In my opinion Pettefer is no where good enough for this level and whilst Bentley would have given us a tough option to use I dont think he would be good enough either.


As to the original topic I dont see Tilson getting sacked even if we go down. The guy did wonders to get up and its hardly his fault if we do find we are out of our depth.

However the fact Col U are doing ok at the moment does show that we can survive in this league as long as we can start getting a bit of confidence back and a couple of wins.

This is where Tilsons supposed man management skills are really going to be tested.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quite frankly anyone who advocates sacking Tilly at any point this season, even if we are relegated, is in my opinion a moron.

Believe me, the first person I hear chanting 'Tilly Out' will get a mouthful of abuse from me!

 

[Blue Shrimp]

Interesting comments to my post. But none of you have really answered my opinion that the millions involved regarding Ron's plans for a new ground changes the situation.

I think, as we got promoted, Ron will want to hold onto our level at all costs. There is to much money involved.

Please answer this practical point and not just the football points and your feelings for Tilly & your club.

The fact that you have skated around this point, tells me a lot. It's easy to say if we go down we can come up again,you are not spending the money.

 

[MC BLUES]

Quote[/b] (Blue Shrimp @ Oct. 24 2006,08:26)]Interesting comments to my post. But none of you have really answered my opinion that the millions involved regarding Ron's plans for a new ground changes the situation.

I think, as we got promoted, Ron will want to hold onto our level at all costs. There is to much money involved.

Please answer this practical point and not just the football points and your feelings for Tilly & your club.

The fact that you have skated around this point, tells me a lot. It's easy to say if we go down we can come up again,you are not spending the money.

I can see your point.

I started a thread a couple of days ago inviting comment concerning Tilly's grip on the control and general discipline of the players. I also asked whether we should only have blamed Ricketts for his lazy attitude or should the Manager have also taken some responsibility for that particular mess? Further, I asked do most football managers have a limited shelf life in any case, and only the very strongest survive for the longer term at the same club?

Anyway, there was little response to these particular questions and the reason I mention this is to make the point that Tilly can do no wrong in the eyes of most on here. To a large extent this is of course underestandable. I think we can all agree that he has done a fantastic job in the last couple of years.

However, to directly answer your question, I think if we were to find ourselves in the bottom two by January AND we were getting seriously left behind by the pack, then I believe Ron Martin would consider doing the unthinkable. Ron Martin will not want this Club to go backwards now. I also think as much as Tilly is loved by the fans at this time, feelings can change quite quickly in the fickle world of football.

 

[Blue Shrimp]

Since my last post, many more people have viewed this post. Only 1 reader has answered my question, concerning the effect that the proposed new ground has on Steve Tilson's future.

Your lack of response says it all.

It's not an idea you wish to consider, it's to uncomfortable.

 

[BrettieAngell]

To be honest I can't see who we could get in if Tilly was sacked. Would a 'big name' manager really want to come to Southend if we are at the bottom of the league?

I thnik Tilly's future is pretty safe.