Ukip

[Yorkshire Blue]

There won't be any deal possible on the freedom of movement of labour.That's non-negociable.

I hope those poor students of yours got receipts.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Why were Labour so scared of letting us uneducated commoners have a referendum in the first place ?


On election night as the disaster for Labour unfolded, I watched an interview with that waste of space, Oona King. The only thing she had to say was how disappointed it was that their would now be a vote on the EU. That one and only statement sums up why people have deserted her Party

There was a referendum back in '75.

The PLP's policy (and that of the Lib/Dems) was to have a referendum only if there were significant changes to the EU.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I hope those poor students of yours got receipts.

I always give an invoice for any declared work I do.:raspberry:

 

[callan]

A referendum on the EU was promised in the Tory party's manifesto.

Personally,I think it's good tactics by Andy Burnham to push for the vote asap, ie by this time next year.That way there will be little real time for any serious "renegociation" to take place.

When the inevitable happens and the British people vote to stay in the EU,UKIP's current level of support will wither away.

We are aware which parties pushed for a referendum, Labour wasn't one of them.

Ultimately Cameron has the mandate from the people not Burnham, and that mandate was to negotiate a better settlement for us to vote on, so I doubt that Cameron will feel under any kind of pressure from Burnam.

Do you expect UKIP support to whither away like the SNP'S?

 

[callan]

There was a referendum back in '75.

The PLP's policy (and that of the Lib/Dems) was to have a referendum only if there were significant changes to the EU.

Not for political union there wasn't.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

We are aware which parties pushed for a referendum, Labour wasn't one of them.

Labour certainly wasn't pushing for a refendum as it's (for the most part) a pro-European party.

Ultimately Cameron has the mandate from the people not Burnham, and that mandate was to negotiate a better settlement for us to vote on, so I doubt that Cameron will feel under any kind of pressure from Burnam

.

Cameron will certainly feel under pressure from many of his own MP's though and I'd guess (for that reason) he'd probably favour an early referendum to

Do you expect UKIP support to whither away like the SNP'S?

I don't expect the SNP's support to wither away at all- as long as they provide leadership in an anti-austerity campaign against further Tory cuts.

UKIP,on the other hand,will have little raison d'être, after a no campaign has been fought and lost.

 

[callan]

I don't expect the SNP's support to wither away at all- as long as they provide leadership in an anti-austerity campaign against further Tory cuts.

UKIP,on the other hand,will have little raison d'être, after a no campaign has been fought and lost.

You mean the cuts that the people of the UK as a whole voted for?

As far as both UKIP and the SNP are concerned they are both independance parties, the SNP did not go away or have little raison d'être because they lost a referendum.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why were Labour so scared of letting us uneducated commoners have a referendum in the first place ?


On election night as the disaster for Labour unfolded, I watched an interview with that waste of space, Oona King. The only thing she had to say was how disappointed it was that their would now be a vote on the EU. That one and only statement sums up why people have deserted her Party

Your reasoning is nothing to do with Labour policy. They were against a referendum as they want to stay in the EU and a referendum was seen as destabilising for business as markets like to know what they are buying into, and a waste if energies where there are far more urgent works the government need to focus on. Cameron also wants to stay in the EU but he wants to spend time, money and effort into putting that to the vote. Only UKIP want to leave and they have one MP.

Feel free to state the reasons why you want a referendum but everything you wrote is irrelevant to the argument as it has nothing to do with Labour's stance.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You mean the cuts that the people of the UK as a whole voted for?

As far as both UKIP and the SNP are concerned they are both independance parties, the SNP did not go away or have little raison d'être because they lost a referendum.

You're right, in as much, as the Tories now have a mandate for the cuts that they will impose.

However,it is simply laughable to compare the SNP's narrow (45%-55%) defeat in the Scottish referendum with UKIP's 12.6% vote share in the recent G/E (as against the SNP's 50% of the vote in Scotland).The SNP is a genuine independence party,UKIP isn't.

UKIP,it's nothing more than an extreme right-wing, anti-European,fringe party with one MP (compared with the SNP's 56).

 

[dloman]

You're right, in as much, as the Tories now have a mandate for the cuts that they will impose.

However,it is simply laughable to compare the SNP's narrow (45%-55%) defeat in the Scottish referendum with UKIP's 12.6% vote share in the recent G/E (as against the SNP's 50% of the vote in Scotland).The SNP is a genuine independence party,UKIP isn't.

UKIP,it's nothing more than an extreme right-wing, anti-European,fringe party with one MP (compared with the SNP's 56).

To be fair it's simply laughable of you to compare the referendum to the GE as in the latter there was a multitude of candidates and policies to choose from, as opposed to a simple yes/no question.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

To be fair it's simply laughable of you to compare the referendum to the GE as in the latter there was a multitude of candidates and policies to choose from, as opposed to a simple yes/no question.

Yes and in the general election the SNP got 50% support in Scotland while UKIP only managed 12.6% overall.

UKIP won the European elections last year.Perhaps you'd care to compare their percentage vote share (and turnout) with the SNP's in the Scottish referedum? (I know who had the better figures and it wasn't UKIP).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32808525

I see that nice Suzanne Evans has also stepped down from her UKIP job.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you're not declaring income that is taxable.

That's tax evasion, and makes you a hypocrite.

[video]https://youtu.be/Ksa4VjKE3RY[/video]

I'd just lose the income if I refused to do the work.Incidentally,why does that make me a hypocrite?

As Paul Simon says:- "I would not be convicted by a jury of my peers"

Still Crazy after all these Years.

 

[Uncle Leo]

:off topic:

Can we move on from Barna's tax affairs and back to UKIP please?

 

[Uncle Leo]

With respect to your position as a co-owner, I believe he should be given the opportunity to clear up the mess he has made through his miscommunication, by confirming he isn't a tax cheat?

I'd hate to have an accusation hanging over me without the chance for rebuttal.

(I'd also question whether an EFL teacher who can't present something clearly in English is worth actually paying for, let alone deducting taxes for; however that would just be a spiteful jab. Meow)

A mere mod these days :smile:

I see what you're saying - maybe we could set up a new thread? "Barna's Tax Chat"

 

[manor15]

Bet they pay their tax bill without hiding some of the income though. Tax cheat.

I think you've made your point now, back on topic please.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

After the resignation and resignation withdrawal, the internal insults of NF being angry and thin skinned, the actual resignations, the gossip that their one MP is no longer happy with the hierarchy and being told to claim as much tax money as posible - NF has stated UKIP are not 100% unified unlike all the other parties. Not particularly interesting, standard NF drivel but it gets the thread back on track - woo hoo.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Originally Posted by Callan.You've managed to highlight a few stats and tried to cobble together something cohesive as an argument.

None of the facts as you put them actually back up your argument

Lets just take one or two...in what way is UKIP not an independence party?, and how do your stats confirm this.

What makes the SNP more of an independance party than UKIP?, and how do your stats support this?

(Think you posted this in the wrong thread).

The SNP is seeking independence from GB. UKIP is seeking independence from the EU.Hardly the same thing at all.

If the SNP ever won a Yes vote for independence they would want to stay a part of the EU.Indeed if there were to be a vote against GB staying in the EU in Cameron's referendum, that would almost certainly trigger a call for another Scottish independence vote from the SNP.

The facts are that UKIP won only 12.6 pc support in the G/E (and have only one MP), whereas the SNP gained 50% support in Scotland (and 56 out of 59 MP's).

That would seem to indicate that UKIP is merely a fringe party, whereas the SNP has genuine public support in Scotland.

 

[callan]

(Think you posted this in the wrong thread).

The SNP is seeking independence from GB. UKIP is seeking independence from the EU.Hardly the same thing at all.

If the SNP ever won a Yes vote for independence they would want to stay a part of the EU.Indeed if there were to be a vote against GB staying in the EU in Cameron's referendum, that would almost certainly trigger a call for another Scottish independence vote from the SNP.

The facts are that UKIP won only 12.6 pc support in the G/E (and have only one MP), whereas the SNP gained 50% support in Scotland (and 56 out of 59 MP's).

That would seem to indicate that UKIP is merely a fringe party, whereas the SNP has genuine public support in Scotland.

I have never said that they were the same kinds of Independence, the clue is in the title of each party.
It was you who said that UKIP weren't an independence party.

More people voted for UKIP than SNP, the SNP only campaigned in Scotland and only secured 50 per cent as you say.
If you lay that vote out across the UK then the SNP's percentage is substantially less than UKIPS who actually came 3rd in numbers of votes.
So hardly a fringe Party.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I have never said that they were the same kinds of Independence, the clue is in the title of each party.

You stated that UKIP and the SNP were both independence parties.

More people voted for UKIP than SNP, the SNP only campaigned in Scotland and only secured 50 per cent as you say.
If you lay that vote out across the UK then the SNP's percentage is substantially less than UKIPS who actually came 3rd in numbers of votes.
So hardly a fringe Party.

I'd call "a fringe party" a party like UKIP,which has only managed to get one MP to represent it in Parliament.By the same token the Greens are also a "fringe" party.Although they polled a million votes they still only managed to get one MP elected.

The SNP (with 56 MP's ) is now the third largest political party in GB.

Obviously, the SNP didn't field candidates throughout the UK.

As you say "the clue is in the title" of the party.

Nevertheless their support in Scotland was overwhelming.