Warm up games

[Shrimper2thecore]

Welbeck's held in high esteem by all those who play with and against him. Guardiola waxed lyrical about him prior to their Champions League encounter last season and the only manager to give him short shrift has been Moyes, and look how that turned out. Welbeck's the most rounded footballer we have at our disposal. He can attack, defend, hold the ball up, bring others into play, create opportunities and make space through movement. He's more than diligent defensively and has a phenomenal workrate. And he doesn't celebrate goals by pointing to the sky like some kind of Johnny Foreigner. Why wouldn't we look to exploit those strengths against an Italian side that will defend resolutely and, given their most likely team selection, play through the middle with advanced full-backs. We're going to need players like Welbeck and Lallana on the flanks who can tuck inside when required and not look out of place. Can Sterling do that? No.

Both Valencia and Sterling deserved reds. Sterling was moving at such a pace that he never had control of the tackle and if he's even half a second earlier he's putting Valencia out of the tournament. It was reckless and dangerous, so he has to go. Valencia reacted badly, so had to go as well.

Needs to score first :winking:

 

[EastStandBlue]

Needs to score first :winking:

Eight in 22 England games is not a ratio to be sniffed at.

 

[Pubey]

It's not about overrating Welbeck, it's about remembering him being a stand-out player at Euro 2012. He got 2 in 4 (the equaliser in the draw against France where he led the line, and the crucial winner against Sweden). He has a knack of scoring important goals for England and his all-round play is superior to Sterling (who is a great prospect, but last night he showed his naivety). Bringing in youth and pace is all well and good, but Welbeck has youth, pace and big tournament experience which is crucial.

Last night we gave the ball away too cheaply for my liking and Welbeck is intelligent on the ball and can also stretch the play and accelerate when breaking.

If not Welbeck, then who?

 

[Uncle Leo]

What were people's opinion on the Sterling/Valencia incident?

Silly boy, had to go. Silly man, had to go.

It's going some to get red carded in an international friendly. In fact, the first Englishman to be sent off in such a game in my lifetime!

 

[Jim Levenstein]

Understand all the points made on Welbeck but personally I would start Lallana, Rooney, Sterling with Sturrudge ahead. Sterling's tackle stupid but not that bad I think as soon as he came on the effort he put in showed how much he wants to play. Welbeck, this season no-where near good enough, Sterling has outperformed him in everyway. 2 years ago was 2 years ago Sterling was not about then but he is now and is the better player.

 

[Napster]

To be fair, for our reserve XI to draw against a strong Ecuador side wasn't bad going. For me it was all about conditioning. The defence was shaky but that was unsurprising. Shaw looks an excellent prospect.

Lampard looked a bit rusty, Wilshere had some nice touches, the Ox made more dribbles than I can remember in an England game. (7 according to Opta). I know Rooney has his detractors, but his presence in the side just gives us a bit more oomph. He can hold the ball up well, he's strong, and yes, he scored.

Sterling's an idiot, but it was too late to pull out of that tackle once he'd committed. He'll learn.

The only thing I really learned from last night was Barkley can come of the bench and make some forward runs...

 

[EastStandBlue]

Understand all the points made on Welbeck but personally I would start Lallana, Rooney, Sterling with Sturrudge ahead. Sterling's tackle stupid but not that bad I think as soon as he came on the effort he put in showed how much he wants to play. Welbeck, this season no-where near good enough, Sterling has outperformed him in everyway. 2 years ago was 2 years ago Sterling was not about then but he is now and is the better player.

So you understand why Welbeck has to be picked ahead of Sterling, but would go ahead and throw Sterling in anyway? Sterling's an excellent option to have if we're chasing a game, particularly after 60 minutes of jungle heat, but he's simply not the right person to start against Italy.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

So you understand why Welbeck has to be picked ahead of Sterling, but would go ahead and throw Sterling in anyway? Sterling's an excellent option to have if we're chasing a game, particularly after 60 minutes of jungle heat, but he's simply not the right person to start against Italy.

Worst thing we can do is give Italy and Uruguay too much respect and sit back. Our 'attacking' players getting in the side because of their defensive ability is rubbish. Euro 2012 we sat back it was embarrassing Pirlo ran the whole game.

We can beat these team attacking now we have Sterling, Sturridge etc. Better in attack than defence so attack!!

If you'd rather attack with Welbeck than Sterling after this season then you must be a United fan as surely no-one else would say that?????????

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Worst thing we can do is give Italy and Uruguay too much respect and sit back. Our 'attacking' players getting in the side because of their defensive ability is rubbish. Euro 2012 we sat back it was embarrassing Pirlo ran the whole game.

We can beat these team attacking now we have Sterling, Sturridge etc. Better in attack than defence so attack!!

If you'd rather attack with Welbeck than Sterling after this season then you must be a United fan as surely no-one else would say that?????????

We're going to lose against Italy and probably Uruguay too and will be going back after three games.Sorry.:sad:

 

[manor15]

Anyone see what Valencia said after the game?
"I apologise to the country, my teammates, the coaching staff for the expulsion of today. But most importantly, I'm fine"
He was nowhere near getting injured, it was a wild tackle but Sterling was nowhere near getting the player, was clearly going for the ball, give him a yellow and tell him to calm down and get on with the game. Valencia's reaction was disgusting, particularly in a friendly game, thought Sterling did well not to react knowing his temperament.

 

[Uncle Leo]

We're going to lose against Italy and probably Uruguay too and will be going back after three games.Sorry.:sad:

But Spain are in a group with Netherlands, Chile and Australia...

 

[Jim Levenstein]

We're going to lose against Italy and probably Uruguay too and will be going back after three games.Sorry.:sad:

Other than Germany we don't actually lose games in major competitions. I am optimistic I feel we could potentially win all 3 games but I'm going with 7 points as our total but I could change my mind to 5 points after 10mins of the Italy game.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Worst thing we can do is give Italy and Uruguay too much respect and sit back. Our 'attacking' players getting in the side because of their defensive ability is rubbish. Euro 2012 we sat back it was embarrassing Pirlo ran the whole game.

We can beat these team attacking now we have Sterling, Sturridge etc. Better in attack than defence so attack!!

If you'd rather attack with Welbeck than Sterling after this season then you must be a United fan as surely no-one else would say that?????????

The worst thing we can do is, in stifling heat and humidity, come raring out of the traps against teams set up to counter attack. It's a suicide mission. Choosing attacking players partly down to their defensive ability is part and parcel of the modern game, you defend from the front and look to capitalise on defensive mistakes and hassle defenders - stereotypically the least comfortable players in possession - into turning over possession quickly. Guardiola and Mourinho's teams are excellent at it, and Costa's knack for bullying defenders off the ball was central to Atletico Madrid's play this year. It's not about being defensive and defeatist, it's about being pragmatic and acknowledging both the conditions and opposition's game. Players are said to be losing 2kg per warm weather training session, so you can imagine the toll a 90 minute competitive fixture is going to take.

You're right. We can beat the likes of Italy, but we can only do so with a measured approach. We can attack - we'll have to attack - but we simply can't afford to throw caution to the wind and bomb forward from the first whistle.

And indeed, I'm United through and through, me. I've only infiltrated this messageboard in a desperate attempt for OBL's affections, and I would've gotten away with it to if it wasn't for you.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

The worst thing we can do is, in stifling heat and humidity, come raring out of the traps against teams set up to counter attack. It's a suicide mission. Choosing attacking players partly down to their defensive ability is part and parcel of the modern game, you defend from the front and look to capitalise on defensive mistakes and hassle defenders - stereotypically the least comfortable players in possession - into turning over possession quickly. Guardiola and Mourinho's teams are excellent at it, and Costa's knack for bullying defenders off the ball was central to Atletico Madrid's play this year. It's not about being defensive and defeatist, it's about being pragmatic and acknowledging both the conditions and opposition's game. Players are said to be losing 2kg per warm weather training session, so you can imagine the toll a 90 minute competitive fixture is going to take.

You're right. We can beat the likes of Italy, but we can only do so with a measured approach. We can attack - we'll have to attack - but we simply can't afford to throw caution to the wind and bomb forward from the first whistle.

And indeed, I'm United through and through, me. I've only infiltrated this messageboard in a desperate attempt for OBL's affections, and I would've gotten away with it to if it wasn't for you.

I don't think Italy will set up to counter attack, I think they will try and play the same way they did 2 years ago, dominate possession and try to run us ragged that way. Not enough pace in midfield and attack to counter attack based on the line up last night.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Did anyone else spot the Southend flag at the game yesterday? Wonder if any Shrimpers are heading out to Brazil.

I thought we played pretty well last night against a decent Ecuador team, considering it was essentially a reserve team and they were probably a bit jet-lagged. Oxlade-Chamberlain and Barkley were impressive going forward and I love the way they just pick it up and aren't afraid to run at opponents. I thought Rooney had a decent game on the left and Lambert didn't do much wrong and scored a lovely goal. Defensively we looked a bit shaky and Chris Smalling did little to change my opinion of him but I thought Phil Jones did ok after a shaky start and Luke Shaw didn't do much wrong. Milner wasn't convincing at right-back but he was up against a very pacey winger. Let's just hope none of our first-choice back 4 get injured. Only major disappointment (other than the Ox's injury - fingers crossed!) for me was Wilshere, who gave the ball away too much and just looks scared of tackling now, which is understandable but you can't afford to be carrying players like that. He could've done more to prevent the shot for their 2nd goal too. I thought Sterling deserved a yellow at most for his tackle and Valencia's reaction, considering his experience and the fact he's captain towards a 19 year-old was disgusting.

Also what was the point of bringing on Stones and Flanagan when they're not in the 23-man squad?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But Spain are in a group with Netherlands, Chile and Australia...

Ha! I don't posses a Spanish passport (though I do have a Spanish resident's permit).

I would agree with you that Spain's group is quite tough.I think they'll get through though. :smile:

 

[londonblue]

Ha! I don't posses a Spanish passport (though I do have a Spanish resident's permit).

I would agree with you that Spain's group is quite tough.I think they'll get through though. :smile:

According to the latest FIFA rankings England are in the toughest group. 3 of the world's top ten teams are in our group.

 

[Pubey]

According to the latest FIFA rankings England are in the toughest group. 3 of the world's top ten teams are in our group.

It doesn't really work like that though does it? A tough group is one where all the teams are broadly similar. We've got Costa Rica who are *****, and that means it's 3 teams going for 2 spots, rather than 4.

 

[RHB]

It doesn't really work like that though does it? A tough group is one where all the teams are broadly similar. We've got Costa Rica who are *****, and that means it's 3 teams going for 2 spots, rather than 4.

I really hope that isn't the kiss of death when we play them!!!

 

[londonblue]

It doesn't really work like that though does it? A tough group is one where all the teams are broadly similar. We've got Costa Rica who are *****, and that means it's 3 teams going for 2 spots, rather than 4.

Three teams are broadly similar:

Uruguay: 7th
Italy: 9th
England: 10th

Costa Rica: 28th

Costa Rica aren't **** as you put it, they're only 2 behind Ecuador.

It's the toughest of all the groups, which just underlines why I can't get excited about this world cup.