Ref Watch .... Wycombe at Wembley

[A Century United]

You'll have to help me out with that one. They let the keepers hold the ball for too long "to keep the game flowing" ?

Simples Mick. Can you imagine the hold ups, the complaints, the players around the ref every time he gave a free kick for a fraction over the six seconds? Every player suddenly becoming a time keeper whenever the opposition keeper has the ball? Every ref, every game, being accused of being inconsistent (even more than they are now) because he started counting a fraction late one time and the other team got away with it? Petty enforcement of a purely arbitrary six seconds would absolutely disrupt the flow of the game.

 

[A Century United]

Simples Mick. Can you imagine the hold ups, the complaints, the players around the ref every time he gave a free kick for a fraction over the six seconds? Every player suddenly becoming a time keeper whenever the opposition keeper has the ball? Every ref, every game, being accused of being inconsistent (even more than they are now) because he started counting a fraction late one time and the other team got away with it? Petty enforcement of a purely arbitrary six seconds would absolutely disrupt the flow of the game.

PS - rather than nit-pick, what did you make of him stopping the game for a player with cramp when we were attacking?

 

[Chalky]

If you really want to know how the awful the ref was, watch the game back, on the tele.

 

[adam3811]

Myself and many around me were utterly amazed at how inconsistent the referee was on Saturday! Everyone's said it, but if Bolger's 'push' was a foul then Corr's incident at the back post was too! I still need to watch it again, but I'm sure we had a very similar mistimed tackle not given to us moments before Wycombe gained their free kick for the goal.

There were definite foul throws down in our corner and the linesman didn't call them out - one Wycombe throw had stepped a yard onto the pitch before releasing the ball! I am glad they got the Wycombe offside call right though.

It really did feel like we were getting no luck until the last seconds.

 

[Bazza the dog]

The ref was a disgrace how anyone can argue he wasn't I do now know. It wasn't an isolated incident it was many playing up to Wycombe and their diving antics, it's lucky we won't otherwise we would all be screaming blue murder.

 

[Ex-Member1]

Maybe we will enjoy better quality officials next season? COYSBB.

 

[Mick]

PS - rather than nit-pick, what did you make of him stopping the game for a player with cramp when we were attacking?

I thought that was a terrible decision and not refereeing within the Laws of the Game. With a player down in the box we are entitled to push forward as he is playing players onside. The guidelines for stopping play are no different in that situation to any injury anywhere on the pitch - a head injury or any other serious injury requiring urgent attention - not cramp !!

 

[Mick]

Maybe we will enjoy better quality officials next season? COYSBB.

Don't bank on it; by and large it will be the same ones. The new referees will, initially, do more of the League two games.

Will will get the same combination of good referees, good referees having an off day and less good referees. Some will mainly only notice/remember the poor ones !

 

[1966 and all that]

Reading all this, it was a good job we won!

 

[SouthUpperShrimper]

I don't think the disallowed goal was actually a foul. He put his arms on his back and was about to push him but the Wycombe player threw himself to the ground before he had a chance!

I thought overall his performance was weak, and he did not combat the timewasting. I can't remember who it was, but when the Wycombe player was down in their penalty area, playing Corr onside with a leg 'injury' he decided to clutch his face to get play stopped and the referee gave into him.

According to the laws of the game, players are allowed to be assessed on the pitch but not treated, yet on a number of occasions the Wycombe player was about to stand up when the physio sat him down again to delay play even more (at 0-0 as well as 1-0. He must be the fittest physio in the league.

I think the penalty incident has already been covered in this thread!

Rant over.

 

[Fish]

Bolger's push made the difference between a defender possibly being able to get a head on the ball and not. That's worthy of a free kick, especially when the outcome of the defender not playing the ball is a clear goalscoring opportunity.

The ref's decision to not give a penalty for the push on Corr was inexplicable. It looked "worse"! but in fact in terms of effect on the game was no different to Bolger's foul.

Unfortunately, once a player is lying on the ground holding his head, the ref HAS to stop the game because of the possibility of a head injury. He's got to be 100% sure the player's not hurt his head to carry on, and I can't imagine any scenario where that would be a recommended course of action. The player may have conned him, or simply may have known that con or not, the ref has to stop the game once he holds his head. Either way, you can't blame the ref for stopping the game, just because we had a promising break on at the time.

In terms of time added on at the end of extra time, to add 2 minutes on for just 15 minutes of play (well, not 15 minutes of play, the ball is barely in play for 50% of the match time anyway) IS the equivalent of 6 minutes over a half of football. So those of you arguing we should have had 6 minutes at the end of the second period of extra time, are you seriously claiming that over 45 minutes, you'd expect him to have played 18 minutes of added on time?!?

Where do people think we're going to magic up all these "competent" referees from? You think they're all hidden at a referee farm somewhere?!?! Of course not! The referees we get are, by definition, the best ones for the job, because they, like us, are at this level in the football system on merit. It's a relative merit, not an absolute one. If you want better referees, play at a better level of football. Until then, suck it up.

 

[Shrimp and two veg]

Referee was shockingly bad. Did nothing to attempt a halt at play acting by WW and with the view Sky provided of the penalty shout that the ref had watching Barry Corr, my god was nothing short of criminal. We looked the better side, we were the better side and no thanks to the man in the middle who made us really work for the win.

 

[A Century United]

Bolger's push made the difference between a defender possibly being able to get a head on the ball and not. That's worthy of a free kick, especially when the outcome of the defender not playing the ball is a clear goalscoring opportunity.

The ref's decision to not give a penalty for the push on Corr was inexplicable. It looked "worse"! but in fact in terms of effect on the game was no different to Bolger's foul.

Unfortunately, once a player is lying on the ground holding his head, the ref HAS to stop the game because of the possibility of a head injury. He's got to be 100% sure the player's not hurt his head to carry on, and I can't imagine any scenario where that would be a recommended course of action. The player may have conned him, or simply may have known that con or not, the ref has to stop the game once he holds his head. Either way, you can't blame the ref for stopping the game, just because we had a promising break on at the time.

In terms of time added on at the end of extra time, to add 2 minutes on for just 15 minutes of play (well, not 15 minutes of play, the ball is barely in play for 50% of the match time anyway) IS the equivalent of 6 minutes over a half of football. So those of you arguing we should have had 6 minutes at the end of the second period of extra time, are you seriously claiming that over 45 minutes, you'd expect him to have played 18 minutes of added on time?!?

Where do people think we're going to magic up all these "competent" referees from? You think they're all hidden at a referee farm somewhere?!?! Of course not! The referees we get are, by definition, the best ones for the job, because they, like us, are at this level in the football system on merit. It's a relative merit, not an absolute one. If you want better referees, play at a better level of football. Until then, suck it up.

I can appreciate your points about the penalty and disallowed goal, but I can't agree about the time wasting. To compare it proportionately is simply wrong. Time wasted is time wasted whether it's in normal or extra time, and the length of the period of play is irrelevant. If a player goes down injured and it takes 5 minutes to treat him, you add 5 minutes of additional time. If one follows your argument, you would only add 1 minute 30 seconds because it happened in extra time. 6 minutes is an exageration, but the Sky summariser was surprised by there only being two minutes. At least 3, and possibly 4, would have been reasonable.

 

[Ex-Member1]

I disagree with some of the comments on this subject and still feel very hopeful that officials in Div 1 will be of a better standard without looking for a referee farm. It is a fact that new officials tend to start at the bottom and work their way up the leagues on merit, surely? It would seem logical that some or even many of the better ones would have progressed upwards. Otherwise what would be the incentive for officials to improve their performance, and what would be the point in having assessors at matches?

 

[Fish]

I can appreciate your points about the penalty and disallowed goal, but I can't agree about the time wasting. To compare it proportionately is simply wrong. Time wasted is time wasted whether it's in normal or extra time, and the length of the period of play is irrelevant. If a player goes down injured and it takes 5 minutes to treat him, you add 5 minutes of additional time. If one follows your argument, you would only add 1 minute 30 seconds because it happened in extra time. 6 minutes is an exageration, but the Sky summariser was surprised by there only being two minutes. At least 3, and possibly 4, would have been reasonable.

I think I made the timewasting point badly. I agree that 5 mins wasted = 5 mins added on, totally. I'm not denying that Wycombe were time wasting. What I'm saying is that people are exaggerating how bad the timewasting was. To claim that 6 minutes was warranted is equivalent to claiming that over 45 minutes 18 minutes of added on time would accrue. The most Fergie ever got was 9 minutes at Old Trafford. That's the level of "unlikely" I'd say hoping for 6 minutes added on over 15 actually is!

It shouldn't be beyond the ken of man these days to design a system of watch synchronization so that the ref's watch beams to a pitch-side counter(especially now the refs are miked up together). Every time there's a stoppage, the ref actually stops his watch (as I do when umpiring hockey at a similar level to Southend play football). The counter carries on continuous, and when it gets to 90 minutes, it compares with what the ref has left to go and automatically calculates the time added on. That way, the ref doesn't have to carry that information in his head. He's got enough to think about without worrying about keeping a running total of the wasted time.

 

[northlincsshrimper1]

During my Refereeing career of 20 years, I used two watches. One watch was kept on all the time and let me know when normal time was up, whereas the second watch was stopped at any occasion where I felt times wasting, injuries, ball out of play etc ect required added time. This I found to be a simple method of ensuring that any deliberate act of wasting time was added to the normal 90 minutes. It also enable me to gauge accurately additional time for my benefit and the players, managers and spectators

 

[A Century United]

I think I made the timewasting point badly. I agree that 5 mins wasted = 5 mins added on, totally. I'm not denying that Wycombe were time wasting. What I'm saying is that people are exaggerating how bad the timewasting was. To claim that 6 minutes was warranted is equivalent to claiming that over 45 minutes 18 minutes of added on time would accrue. The most Fergie ever got was 9 minutes at Old Trafford. That's the level of "unlikely" I'd say hoping for 6 minutes added on over 15 actually is!

It shouldn't be beyond the ken of man these days to design a system of watch synchronization so that the ref's watch beams to a pitch-side counter(especially now the refs are miked up together). Every time there's a stoppage, the ref actually stops his watch (as I do when umpiring hockey at a similar level to Southend play football). The counter carries on continuous, and when it gets to 90 minutes, it compares with what the ref has left to go and automatically calculates the time added on. That way, the ref doesn't have to carry that information in his head. He's got enough to think about without worrying about keeping a running total of the wasted time.

I wouldn't be sorry to see an official timekeeper in League matches. I would also like to see sin bins as an additional weapon in the Ref's armoury, and a simple rule that keeps play going until the ball is out of play once time is up, again like rugby.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I wouldn't be sorry to see an official timekeeper in League matches. I would also like to see sin bins as an additional weapon in the Ref's armoury, and a simple rule that keeps play going until the ball is out of play once time is up, again like rugby.

Definitely agree about an official timekeeper. I would like to see anyone requiring treatment on the pitch kept waiting on the sidelines to be allowed back on for the same amount of time as they received treatment. This might mean some of these moronic time wasting shenanigans get reduced. Wycombe's behaviour Saturday, whilst no surprise, were terrible!

 

[Pubey]

Definitely agree about an official timekeeper. I would like to see anyone requiring treatment on the pitch kept waiting on the sidelines to be allowed back on for the same amount of time as they received treatment. This might mean some of these moronic time wasting shenanigans get reduced. Wycombe's behaviour Saturday, whilst no surprise, were terrible!

Brilliant.:hilarious:

 

[Fish]

I wouldn't be sorry to see an official timekeeper in League matches. I would also like to see sin bins as an additional weapon in the Ref's armoury, and a simple rule that keeps play going until the ball is out of play once time is up, again like rugby.

Totally agree. The sin-bins work very well in hockey, the cards all mean something. Some time off the pitch allows a player time to cool off as well.