Down Down Deeper and Down

[Tangled up in Blue]

But what is the alternative? If Ron Martin was obviously profiting from our position, or if we were ticking along fine before we had ever heard of Martin Dawn PLC then I think the few of us who are trying to keep our heads about all of this would be more angry with Ron Martin. But he isn't and we aren't. We'd have been ok this season had we been run by a Chairman with bigger pockets, but are we really going to blame him for that? And do we really want to be one rich man or other's plaything? I'd rather we be self-sufficient.

We're here because of the legacy of the Jobson era. That's when we lost our stadium and the right to have any say at all in our own future. The only chance we have for surviving in the long term is to build a new stadium with extra income streams. The alternative isn't staying at Roots Hall. I don't think it's even getting someone else on board as Chairman because Southend United don't own Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm. It's extinction.

Don't confuse relaxation with depressed, reluctant, pragmatic acceptance.

Not income streams like the top up card scheme currently being used in the West Stand for food and refreshments I would hope? :)

 

[Napster]

I blame the Rubins.

ps I think the truth lies somewhere between God and Devil. I don't think Ron really wants to ruin the club , but I dont think he's sufficiently able to achieve his level of required success. Theres no shame in that, I just wish hed admit it and ask for advice from someone else.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Our fan base is has gotta be 1 of the main reasons why players joinleave.

Corrected.

But what is the alternative? If Ron Martin was obviously profiting from our position, or if we were ticking along fine before we had ever heard of Martin Dawn PLC then I think the few of us who are trying to keep our heads about all of this would be more angry with Ron Martin. But he isn't and we aren't. We'd have been ok this season had we been run by a Chairman with bigger pockets, but are we really going to blame him for that? And do we really want to be one rich man or other's plaything? I'd rather we be self-sufficient.

We're here because of the legacy of the Jobson era. That's when we lost our stadium and the right to have any say at all in our own future. The only chance we have for surviving in the long term is to build a new stadium with extra income streams. The alternative isn't staying at Roots Hall. I don't think it's even getting someone else on board as Chairman because Southend United don't own Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm. It's extinction.

Don't confuse relaxation with depressed, reluctant, pragmatic acceptance.

People complain about the lies and the spin, but they can't face up to the truth either.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I cannot remember when in my 40 odd years of supporting SUFC when I have felt so low....

My first relegation hurt, losing to Doncaster in the FA Cup hurt (as did most of the Alvin Martin era), losing our championship status first time round hurt, as did the second time (although not as much), watching the dull football under Alan Little hurt, watching Drewe Broughton hurt, watching the club be on the verge of dying around 10 years ago hurt.

This season hasn't been particularly enjoyable, but I'm fairly numb to the pain of relegation to the 4th division. I've experienced this particular cycle often enough for it to no longer particularly faze me.

I'm sure once you can sit back and view it with some perspective you'll realise that it's no big deal. The most painful part was watching the players with no confidence and on too many occasions no passion. Thankfully, that is all but over.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Having a great fan base only helps so much, but when the club is being ravaged behind the scenes, even the best set of fans won't help, didn't help us ths year, didn't help Newcastle stay in the Prem with all the off the field issues with Ashley, when Leeds faced off the pitch financial issues, they still maintained a good base of fans that stood out in bothof their successive relegations.

Although Ron may have a long term goal that suits both the club and him, the most unforgiveable part was that he has, sorry is willing to put our club at risk to achieve these goals. Clearly we are at the bottom of his list of priorities. You don't see any of his other companies being taken to court on a regular basis (Although I stand to be corrected on this). And I haven't read anywhere else of the employees of his other companies not being paid - given the level of digging I've seen fans doing on this site, I'm sure if it had been the case we would know. Quite a feat considering they will be owning FF and should be financing the build of it, yet it' SUFC, the tennants that have been so close to being wound up through the financing of a stadium we will not even own.

Like Graysblue Jr. I am staggered at how long fans have been willing to sit by and watch and support this level of management of our club, in the hope of renting out a shiny stadium.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I blame the Rubins.

ps I think the truth lies somewhere between God and Devil. I don't think Ron really wants to ruin the club , but I dont think he's sufficiently able to achieve his level of required success. Theres no shame in that, I just wish hed admit it and ask for advice from someone else.

I would tend to agree with this.Unfortunately if the Chairman is ruined then it would appear we'll be ruined alongside him.A lose lose situation.:'(

 

[Beefy]

Although Ron may have a long term goal that suits both the club and him, the most unforgiveable part was that he has, sorry is willing to put our club at risk to achieve these goals. Clearly we are at the bottom of his list of priorities. You don't see any of his other companies being taken to court on a regular basis (Although I stand to be corrected on this). And I haven't read anywhere else of the employees of his other companies not being paid - given the level of digging I've seen fans doing on this site, I'm sure if it had been the case we would know. Quite a feat considering they will be owning FF and should be financing the build of it, yet it' SUFC, the tennants that have been so close to being wound up through the financing of a stadium we will not even own.

Like Graysblue Jr. I am staggered at how long fans have been willing to sit by and watch and support this level of management of our club, in the hope of renting out a shiny stadium.

I would imagine that his other companies don't have our crippling cashflow issues. Simply put we do not, as a business, generate enough cash to cover our operational costs. It doesn't matter if we occasionally sell a Freddy Eastwood. It doesn't matter if we once got a full house against Manchester United. These are one-off boosts which may prop up our profit & loss account but in terms of the week to week running of the business they don't mean anything.

People talk about our gates and how good they are for our level. And that is absolutely right. Getting 7,000-8,000 at the bottom of League One is fantastic support. But how many of those are season ticket holders? Aside from a few standing orders, the Club hasn't seen a penny from any one of our season ticket holders in a year. Even the bars and burger stands in the ground are outsourced meaning that we're not seeing income coming in regularly. Which means that we struggle to pay big tax bills and we struggle to pay a large wage bill twelve times per year.

In the past it's not been an issue because Ron Martin, the other Directors and other group companies have loaned SUFC Ltd the money to meet it's week-to-week and month-to-month cashflow obligations. Those loans are in the accounts for everyone to see. But with the Worldwide economy in ruins and the stadium development in serious danger of collapsing (up until the good news of the last couple of weeks) the likes of Martin Dawn haven't been able or willing to throw any more good money after bad. These are companies facing their own problems and with their own staff who have their own families to feed and who aren't being paid £100,000 per year to kick a football around. Why should he gamble with their futures to prop up a company that can't fend for itself?

As I said the other day, this is the first season in as long as I can recall that Southend United have had to fend for itself financially. And that's all that has happened. There's been no asset-stripping, there's nothing to suggest that a penny that the Club has generated has been used for anything that it shouldn't have been. We've just not had anyone there to subsidise us. And it's been a disaster. And whilst it's shown what a painful journey the next few years are going to be it's proven that that journey is more important now than ever.

 

[McNasty]

I wonder how next season will pan out as we will get less income --- lower gates (possibly) lower away fan numbers (definitely) ---- the wage bill will be much lower but will we still incur the £2,000,000 yearly expenses ?

How many of the backroom staff will be sacked to try and save money ?

How many of our playing staff will be hired cos they are very young and very cheap?

Will we still need an assistant physio, a kitman, a goal-keeping coach or a media assistant ?

 

[Beefy]

The only way I can see anything other than another long, hard season is if we're somehow able to free up some more cash once building has begun. Once we know that we're, for example, 18 months away from playing at Fossetts Farm and 18 months away from being able to build the retail park, the hotel, the casino, etc, it'll be easier to justify the Board and other investors putting some more money into the Club to tide us over.

If the diggers don't move in over the Summer then I'd expect another year of court appearances and missed wages.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

i think we have a massive amount of dead wood at the club, back room staff who aren't really needed, especially for a league 2 club. this also refers to the players on our books. all we hear how decent their wage is, unfortunately 3/4's of the squad are no where near decent.

i would like us to scout around our local area. ron spoke at length about how many scouts we have, i think they are doing a terrible job and should be sacked.

lets get some players in on realistic wages and who actually want to play for us. maybe they might not have to same ability but will make up for it with effort, lets be honest not a massive amount of effort has been put in but quite a few especially in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[dave07]

Its going to go back to the dark days of empty stands its just the way some fans are hopefully we will come stright back up but to be honest i cant see it in the first season back in league 2 but all depends what happens over the sumer.

 

[Blue_Wes]

I would imagine that his other companies don't have our crippling cashflow issues. Simply put we do not, as a business, generate enough cash to cover our operational costs. It doesn't matter if we occasionally sell a Freddy Eastwood. It doesn't matter if we once got a full house against Manchester United. These are one-off boosts which may prop up our profit & loss account but in terms of the week to week running of the business they don't mean anything.

People talk about our gates and how good they are for our level. And that is absolutely right. Getting 7,000-8,000 at the bottom of League One is fantastic support. But how many of those are season ticket holders? Aside from a few standing orders, the Club hasn't seen a penny from any one of our season ticket holders in a year. Even the bars and burger stands in the ground are outsourced meaning that we're not seeing income coming in regularly. Which means that we struggle to pay big tax bills and we struggle to pay a large wage bill twelve times per year.

In the past it's not been an issue because Ron Martin, the other Directors and other group companies have loaned SUFC Ltd the money to meet it's week-to-week and month-to-month cashflow obligations. Those loans are in the accounts for everyone to see. But with the Worldwide economy in ruins and the stadium development in serious danger of collapsing (up until the good news of the last couple of weeks) the likes of Martin Dawn haven't been able or willing to throw any more good money after bad. These are companies facing their own problems and with their own staff who have their own families to feed and who aren't being paid £100,000 per year to kick a football around. Why should he gamble with their futures to prop up a company that can't fend for itself?

As I said the other day, this is the first season in as long as I can recall that Southend United have had to fend for itself financially. And that's all that has happened. There's been no asset-stripping, there's nothing to suggest that a penny that the Club has generated has been used for anything that it shouldn't have been. We've just not had anyone there to subsidise us. And it's been a disaster. And whilst it's shown what a painful journey the next few years are going to be it's proven that that journey is more important now than ever.

In respect to the attendence, in my opinion, if we are averaging 7-8k each game for a season. Then we are still getting a better income than most of our rivals in terms of gate revenue. The argument that this an untrue reflection because a majority are season ticket holders doesn't stand up for me. Over the course of a season we are still get the same amount of gate receipts, now whether that is in a pre-season lump sum or staggered over the season is irrelevant, what is relevant is how that money is managed when it comes in, and that's where, in my opinion we lose our advantage to our rivals.

The same can be with our main debters, HMRC, now as far as I'm aware the majority if not all was VAT, that mean this was money we had in hand, so again, in my opinion, this is down to the management of finances.

"These are companies facing their own problems and with their own staff who have their own families to feed and who aren't being paid £100,000 per year to kick a football around. Why should he gamble with their futures to prop up a company that can't fend for itself?"

I agree completely with the above, and was not suggesting that he should sacrifice either sets of workforces to support the other. My point was that the company (us) that is will not be owning the stadium, seems to be the one suffering the brunt of the costs of building FF, and to me and many this seems odd!

You mention the accounts, and I did see these, but sometime ago. But wasn't there one entry that stuck out like a sore thumb since the plans for FF were set in motion. That of 'Other Expenses' Which went up in excess of 200% one year and regularly each year, to the tune of millions per year if I remember rightly. Again does this not seem strange?

With respect to the burgers bars, yes they are outsourced. This I believe is done as a gurantee of income. We charge them for using our premises to sell their wares (minus the onions), this way we have a guaraneed set income a opposed to a variable income based on how many burgers we sell, offset against the staff that are employed - so I don't think that is a valid argument.

I can understand that Ron during these times would not want to fund us, but I believe the income that we have had in, albeit through various sources has been managed very badly.

I disagree in part with the last passage, there has been massive asset stripping, our playing squad has haemorraghed first team players, and Ron now owns the stadium as opposed to SUFC. However, I agree that the funds received have not been used dishonestly, just very poorly.

 

[Beefy]

The admin expenses which you are talking about have their own thread in the finance and stadium forum in which they are broken down. They have nothing to do with the new ground.

With regards to other teams in League One, the majority run at a loss which means that they are reliant on someone else to pay the bills as we have been prior to this season. Well managed Clubs like Yeovil are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

corr just saw oldhams goals. shocking defending. mildy should have deffinately saved their first. right in the middle of the goal.

 

[GodblessArthurRowley]

Isnt it loads of fun following Southend United FC. Remember you could be Rochdale fans celebrating their first promotion since 1705 or something.
Crickey we've been up and down the leagues so often in the last 15 years or so I'm quite dizzy.The rest of the nonesense that surrounds our club is just that nonesense,this club will survive in one form or another in one league or another for as long as there are are folk willing to watch them.Sea Sea Sea Siders.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The only way I can see anything other than another long, hard season is if we're somehow able to free up some more cash once building has begun. Once we know that we're, for example, 18 months away from playing at Fossetts Farm and 18 months away from being able to build the retail park, the hotel, the casino, etc, it'll be easier to justify the Board and other investors putting some more money into the Club to tide us over.

If the diggers don't move in over the Summer then I'd expect another year of court appearances and missed wages.

Please God no.:O Surely the High Court will lose favour with "habitual defaulters" such as ourselves, sooner or later?

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

I wonder how next season will pan out as we will get less income --- lower gates (possibly) lower away fan numbers (definitely) ---- the wage bill will be much lower but will we still incur the £2,000,000 yearly expenses ?

?

Probably more as our expenses for away games will dramatically increase, due to the amount of clubs based in the north in this division.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

I agree about getting rid of some of the unnecessary back room staff and the high earners. When Tilly and Brush did all the scouting we bought far better players than we have in the last 3 seasons. Has this fitness coach done much? We seem to have had more injuries than ever this season.
We badly need a good number 2 to Tilly, someone who can get the best out of strikers in particular because im sick of seeing strikers leaving us and banging them in elsewhere.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

We badly need a good number 2 to Tilly, someone who can get the best out of strikers in particular because im sick of seeing strikers leaving us and banging them in elsewhere.

David Crown anyone?.

 

[* ORM *]

I'd prefer to see a defensive coach. Roy Keane has stopped the goals leaking in at Ipswich. Those draws at the start of the season have made a massive difference.