Meetings tomorrow

[AndyT]

For every fan, after the Blackburn game, that thought we were going places, I could find another that erred on the side of caution because we have seen it all before. PB's reign has been totally inconsistent even in his best season with us. Ask yourself, apart from that day, how many convincing victories have we had? So few you can name them on the back of a stamp. We nearly always look disjointed and our attacking play has been brought to question ever since PB has been here.
If RM wants the manager to stay, he stays. I will always support the team but if PB cannot show an ounce of humility and change some of his bewildering behaviour, then I will always criticise him. I would be more than happy for him to remain if he could redress the issues but in that I lack faith.

I think we are debating two separate things here.

The original debate was whether PB had wasted the "transfer kitty [citation needed]"

It's a different debate as to whether the players have let him down and in return, he has let himself and the players down.

FWIW, there was a huge amount of pressure placed on the team to go one step further this season and they've not managed to achieve this and the whole thing then unravels from there.

One bad bit of business in the summer was not doing enough to keep Adam Thompson here, assuming he left for monetary reasons alone.

 

[OldBlueLady]

God, the quoting on this thread is dreadful!!!:thumbdown:

 

[AndyT]

LOL .. I was just thinking the same! :smile:

 

[RayleighShrimp]

Wow in the nearly 5 years Brown has been here he has only spent a transfer fee of 25,000 pounds on one player the rest of his signings being free isn't he doing a good job...

It is exactly the same. If PB chose to pay a transfer fee it would reduce his wages budget. There is only one amount he has. Oh, and he paid for Bolger, another good player he could not get the best from. Perhaps it's best he doesn't pay out transfer fees.

[/QUOTE]

Dont agree at all with Bolger, he was getting better every game, it’s obvious there was a personal problem/disagreement between him and PB

 

[onceknownasrab]

I think we are debating two separate things here.

The original debate was whether PB had wasted the "transfer kitty [citation needed]"

It's a different debate as to whether the players have let him down and in return, he has let himself and the players down.

FWIW, there was a huge amount of pressure placed on the team to go one step further this season and they've not managed to achieve this and the whole thing then unravels from there.

One bad bit of business in the summer was not doing enough to keep Adam Thompson here, assuming he left for money reasons alone.

I think on a Venn diagram the two issues cross. The alternative, as I see it, is to do things the Rigsby way, defend the undefendable and praise PB regardless. Down that road nothing changes and I doubt very few of us believe we can survive without change. Not everything is PB's fault but until he accepts and redresses the issues that are, we are only going in one direction.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

..the moment Venn diagrams are mentioned, you just know the conversation has gone too far ! :blush:

 

[rigsby]

I think on a Venn diagram the two issues cross. The alternative, as I see it, is to do things the Rigsby way, defend the undefendable and praise PB regardless. Down that road nothing changes and I doubt very few of us believe we can survive without change. Not everything is PB's fault but until he accepts and redresses the issues that are, we are only going in one direction.

No, I was just pointing out that you had got in a total muddle about budgets and money available for transfer fees.

 

[AndyT]

See I don't agree with that 'rab'.

Question 1 is whether, at the time, people felt we were making bad signings.

Question 2 is whether the signings have turned out poorly or been mis-managed.

PB and pretty much all of us could not have foreseen the poor performances, unexpected injuries of some players (not all) and the disharmony within the ranks. That has manifested over time, with the way the results have gone and so on.

 

[Ex-Member1]

2 wins and all this fluff will be forgotten. Bring on the football. COYBB

 

[onceknownasrab]

See I don't agree with that 'rab'.

Question 1 is whether, at the time, people felt we were making bad signings.

Question 2 is whether the signings have turned out poorly or been mis-managed.

PB and pretty much all of us could not have foreseen the poor performances, unexpected injuries of some players (not all) and the disharmony within the ranks. That has manifested over time, with the way the results have gone and so on.

Well that's where we differ I suppose. I still see your 1) as we made too many risky signings at one time and 2) the risk proved too great and I fear lacked any management let alone mismanagement.

We should never have raised the age of the squad so high, particularly with historically risky players, and not have expected some damage.

The subsequent indolence from players is only measured by hindsight. The foresight should have been in recognising just how many we drafted in, at one time, that have no further ambition, nothing to prove, and only too happy to be signed up and get a wage packet.

If we had signed any one of the players I would have thought that's good, a bit of experience never hurts, but not the whole list. We reap what we wow.

 

[rigsby]

The average age of last summers signings was 27

 

[onceknownasrab]

The average age of last summers signings was 27

And the average age of our preferred first eleven? Stop being disingenuous. You make some good points and then spoil it by banging away at nonsense.

 

[AndyT]

Accepted 'rab' but PB/RM had a short-term objective and so a lot of these signings were based on whether they could take us one step further this season. None were drafted in long-term, except Hendrie, but the thinking in the summer wasn't long-term.

PB had one year left on his contract and having finished 7th, he had 46 games to get us beyond that position, so he recruited what he felt he needed to achieve that in 12 months. Nothing more, nothing less. We even held onto Lenny on that basis.

The damage was done in the first half at Rotherham and once the doubt sets in, you are playing catch up.

Coupled with off-field issues and so on, the season has got in a complete mess.

This wasn't what was expected in August, but it's happened the way it has.

Now we have a bit of a rudderless ship, hence RM's meeting today.

 

[rigsby]

And the average age of our preferred first eleven? Stop being disingenuous. You make some good points and then spoil it by banging away at nonsense.

Just pointing out a fact, sorry if that doesn't suit your well worn point.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Accepted 'rab' but PB/RM had a short-term objective and so a lot of these signings were based on whether they could take us one step further this season. None were drafted in long-term, except Hendrie, but the thinking in the summer wasn't long-term.

PB had one year left on his contract and having finished 7th, he had 46 games to get us beyond that position, so he recruited what he felt he needed to achieve that in 12 months. Nothing more, nothing less. We even held onto Lenny on that basis.

The damage was done in the first half at Rotherham and once the doubt sets in, you are playing catch up.

Coupled with off-field issues and so on, the season has got in a complete mess.

This wasn't what was expected in August, but it's happened the way it has.

Now we have a bit of a rudderless ship, hence RM's meeting today.[/QUOTE

And how long does AF have on his contract? Just this season is it? Hmmmm.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Just pointing out a fact, sorry if that doesn't suit your well worn point.

Your fact is aided by the bit part player BA. What is the average age of our centre backs Turner and Ferdinand? What was their playing and injury record prior to being with us? My point might be well worn but it is valid.

 

[AndyT]

And how long does AF have on his contract? Just this season is it? Hmmmm.

Two years 'rab' as well you know! :winking:

 

[rigsby]

Your fact is aided by the bit part player BA. What is the average age of our centre backs Turner and Ferdinand? What was their playing and injury record prior to being with us? My point might be well worn but it is valid.

Ferdinand was signed 18 months ago having played about 25 games in the championship for Reading. You may remember when he took over from AB as captain we were 23rd we ended up 7th. That's one of the reasons he was my POTY, that and the fact Thompson looked a much better player once he played alongside Anton. We got 2 players for the price of one so to speak.

Turner didn't play many first team games for Norwich in the last 2 seasons but does not have a bad injurie record he was just out of favour. Of course he was unlucky to get a hamstring injurie before the season had properly kicked-off but has since shown he is still a good player and a good signing for us.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Ferdinand was signed 18 months ago having played about 25 games in the championship for Reading. You may remember when he took over from AB as captain we were 23rd we ended up 7th. That's one of the reasons he was my POTY, that and the fact Thompson looked a much better player once he played alongside Anton. We got 2 players for the price of one so to speak.

Turner didn't play many first team games for Norwich in the last 2 seasons but does not have a bad injurie record he was just out of favour. Of course he was unlucky to get a hamstring injurie before the season had properly kicked-off but has since shown he is still a good player and a good signing for us.

And Turner featured in a little over twenty games a season for the seven seasons before moving us. No alarm bells there then. Anton played two games in the season before joining us. Nothing to worry about there then either.

 

[rigsby]

And Turner featured in a little over twenty games a season for the seven seasons before moving us. No alarm bells there then. Anton played two games in the season before joining us. Nothing to worry about there then either.

Wrong again Rab, you really should check your facts before slagging people off. Your right on one thing though....Nothing to worry about because we went from 23rd to 7th under Anton.

Whilst not everyone would agree with me about him being POTY, only those with a narrow minded personal agenda against PB would claim he was not only important for us but also one of our better players last season. Which of course you are certainly are not one of those people.